Thameslink/ Class 700 Progress

[Deepgreen]

There is first class at both ends, and I expect it will be fitted out as such regardless of the service it is working, it would be far too much hassle to remove all those antimacassars after all! The Wimbledon loop services will run permanently declassified, so first class isn't an issue for that. In my opinion, the logical solution would be to say that if first were to be reduced to only 1 compartment instead of 2 on a service, that it is always (for example) the Southern end of the train that is the in use compartment on southbound journeys, and vice versa. Of course, if you knew this, you could then travel in the declassified section, preferably at the cost of being at the 'inconvenient' end of the train.

I understand that first class won't apply on the loop, but it will mean that units are routinely turned so that, if they had only a single first class section at one end, then when they are deployed on workings with first class in force, there would be no way to keep the first at the same end for every train.

As 377/5 says, though, de-classification seems to be very unlikely. In any case, two 2 sections in a 12 car unit (and even an eight car one) is quite a small proportion of the total capacity.

 

[Class377/5]

Those fancy colour screens inside should be more than capable of showing when first class is and isn't in operation, and at which ends.

Whether that happens is another matter.

They will be capable of far more than just words like now. There will be video too on both screens.

 

[leomartin125]

Where should I go to see the Class 700, and when can I know if its operating? How do I find out? Thanks.

 

[Class377/5]

Where should I go to see the Class 700, and when can I know if its operating? How do I find out? Thanks.

Units will be out tomorrow. Join a yahoo group (UK Modern EMU) which has units sighting on. Or look at real time trains and search for it.

 

[southern442]

They will be capable of far more than just words like now. There will be video too on both screens.

The screens are one of the things that I like about the new trains. They will be able to display lots more information on screen, and they will also be very useful in times of disruption, so long as they don't waste half the screen by saying 'doors will open on the right hand side' or something like that.

With regards to the first class, it will most likely be declassified on the Sutton Loop and suburban services. The only difference will be that standard class passengers will be allowed to sit there, there will be no removal of the antimacassars or anything, it will simply not be first class for that journey.

 

[urpert]

Just spotted a 12-car going north through Loughborough Jn on this (very delayed) working:

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/L07127/2016/02/16/advanced

 

[ScotGG]

So is one unit a week arriving now?

 

[urpert]

And this diagram is 700108. It was held at Herne Hill so I got a decent look:

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O70971/2016/02/16/advanced

Amused to see these still stuck in the windows:
https://flic.kr/p/DJTGW9

 

[Deepgreen]

The screens are one of the things that I like about the new trains. They will be able to display lots more information on screen, and they will also be very useful in times of disruption, so long as they don't waste half the screen by saying 'doors will open on the right hand side' or something like that.

With regards to the first class, it will most likely be declassified on the Sutton Loop and suburban services. The only difference will be that standard class passengers will be allowed to sit there, there will be no removal of the antimacassars or anything, it will simply not be first class for that journey.

There is no doubt at all that first will be de-classified on suburban workings, the question is, how will that be communicated? Has the opportunity to provide internal electronic signs to do this been missed again (as it was on the 377/6s and /7s)?

 

[Class377/5]

The screens are one of the things that I like about the new trains. They will be able to display lots more information on screen, and they will also be very useful in times of disruption, so long as they don't waste half the screen by saying 'doors will open on the right hand side' or something like that.

With regards to the first class, it will most likely be declassified on the Sutton Loop and suburban services. The only difference will be that standard class passengers will be allowed to sit there, there will be no removal of the antimacassars or anything, it will simply not be first class for that journey.

Just bare in mind the screen info will be upgraded as thing develop. Not everything will be on day one.

So is one unit a week arriving now?

Not yet.

 

[urpert]

Caught 700110 in the bay platforms at Blackfriars today:

https://flic.kr/p/DEpvxM

 

[asylumxl]

Caught 700110 in the bay platforms at Blackfriars today:

https://flic.kr/p/DEpvxM

I saw 700107 in the bay on the 9th. Also saw another I didn't see the number of pass through.

 

[Deepgreen]

While I was at Blackfriars the other day, 700108 was held at the signal at the City end on the SB road, and, on restarting, sounded a muted hooter (rather than the service horn) at staff on the platform. Interesting to compare this with the Electrostars' whistle. Does the 450/444 family (being Siemens-built also) have this hooter?

 

[itfcfan]

Has it been published anywhere, what proportion of (peak / off-peak) outer-suburban services between *Bedford -> St Pancras/Core -> Beyond* will be 700/0 (8 carriage) vs 700/1 (12 carriage)?

I'm aware that some Thameslink routes will be exclusively 700/0 (8 carriage) (e.g. Wimbledon services, inner-suburban St Albans -> Core), but as far as I know outer-suburban Bedford services will be a mix of 700/0 & 700/1 - I'd like to establish what proportion of each sub-class will be used.

From what I've seen, there'll be a similar number of each sub-class initially (60x700/0 vs 55x700/1).

 

[southern442]

I saw 700107 in the bay on the 9th. Also saw another I didn't see the number of pass through.

I didn't put the image in my quote because it was quite big, but am I the only one who can see lots of similarities between the 465 and 700 front ends?

 

[Class377/5]

Has it been published anywhere, what proportion of (peak / off-peak) outer-suburban services between *Bedford -> St Pancras/Core -> Beyond* will be 700/0 (8 carriage) vs 700/1 (12 carriage)?

I'm aware that some Thameslink routes will be exclusively 700/0 (8 carriage) (e.g. Wimbledon services, inner-suburban St Albans -> Core), but as far as I know outer-suburban Bedford services will be a mix of 700/0 & 700/1 - I'd like to establish what proportion of each sub-class will be used.

From what I've seen, there'll be a similar number of each sub-class initially (60x700/0 vs 55x700/1).

Trains lengths will be the same in peak as off peak. Trains lengths should be as follows;

All day

• Bedford to Brighton - 12 car
• Bedford to Gatwick/Three Bridges - 12 cars
• Cambridge to Brighton - 12 car
• Cambridge to Tattenham Corner - 8 car
• Peterborough to Horsham - 12 car
• Luton to Sevenoaks - 8 car
• Luton to Sutton via Wimbledon - 8 car
• Luton to Sutton via Mitcham Junction - 8 car

Peak

• West Hampstead to Littlehampton - 12 cars
• Bedford to East Grinstead - 12 cars
• Luton to Maidstone East - 8 car
• Welwyn Garden City to Caterham - 8 cars

Of course an 8 car may cover a 12 car diagram in case of failure.

 

[spinba11]

I've heard the floor of the trains will be level with the platform at some station, is this right if yes which stations?

 

[Class377/5]

I've heard the floor of the trains will be level with the platform at some station, is this right if yes which stations?

Thameslink Core stations will have a raised section like the Tube for the accessible area of the trains (in the middle between coaches 6 and 7 on a 12 car and 4 and 5 on an 8 car).

No-where will have a level platform with the whole train.

 

[hwl]

I've heard the floor of the trains will be level with the platform at some station, is this right if yes which stations?

The central London stations will be getting platform humps that align with the cars with the wheelchair spaces (same concept seen on some of london underground especially the Victoria line)

 

[southern442]

Thameslink Core stations will have a raised section like the Tube for the accessible area of the trains (in the middle between coaches 6 and 7 on a 12 car and 4 and 5 on an 8 car).

No-where will have a level platform with the whole train.

Is it too expensive to raise all the platforms?

 

[Bald Rick]

Is it too expensive to raise all the platforms?

In a word, yes.

In several words, see the next post!

 

[Stow]

Is it too expensive to raise all the platforms?

Probably, however the bigger issue is that it is not compliant with Technical Standards for Interoperability (TSI's) and therefore would create other issues with other types of rolling stock.

IIRC 700's have a different floor height to a lot of other stock, so level boarding for this class does not equal level boarding for all. This is before you consider lateral clearance requirements, which would probably mean a level platform would need to leave a large lateral gap to retain clearance to tampers etc, and therefore would need other measures to manage the platform train interface.

Level boarding on mainline railways is a nightmare as something like >90% of platforms are not compliant with any current standards, meaning any further differences only perpetuates this situation. A good start would be TSI compliant infrastructure, as trains are gradually becoming TSI compliant (everything built in last 20 years approx)

 

[Peter Sarf]

Thameslink Core stations will have a raised section like the Tube for the accessible area of the trains (in the middle between coaches 6 and 7 on a 12 car and 4 and 5 on an 8 car).

No-where will have a level platform with the whole train.

Ah so that is why the stop markers (boards ?), I have so far seen, for the two different lengths of class 700 unit appear to be neither four coaches apart or at the same position. Its so the centre of a class 700 will always stop at the same part of the platform regardless of unit length. I presume that is not so definite if a platform does not have the raised bit for the middle two coaches of 12/8 ?.

Makes me feel oh so important knowing that my local station will be serviced by the longest units in the UK (12-car units) not just mere little Pendolinos . Oh well those continental (Eurostars) don't count do they ? .

 

[Bald Rick]

Ah so that is why the stop markers (boards ?), I have so far sen, for the two different lengths of class 700 unit appear to be neither four coaches apart or at the same position. So the centre of a class 700 will always stop at the same part of the platform regardless of unit length. I presume that is not so definite if a platform does not have the raised bit for the middle two coaches of 12/8 ?.

Makes me feel oh so important knowing that my local station will be serviced by the longest units in the UK (12-car units) not just mere little Pendolinos . Oh well those continental (Eurostars) don't count do they ? .

Yes, precisely. The middle two coaches of the 700s are the accessible coaches, so they will always need to be stopped next to the humps on the core platforms.

As an aside, the accessibility ramps for the 700s will only fit on the two middle coaches, so staff can put wheelchairs etc only onto those two coaches. And notwithstanding the walk through design of the trains, they are not 'wheel through' as the size of the accessible toilet etc prevents a full width passage from the centre coaches to the more remote parts of the train.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Yes, precisely. The middle two coaches of the 700s are the accessible coaches, so they will always need to be stopped next to the humps on the core platforms.

As an aside, the accessibility ramps for the 700s will only fit on the two middle coaches, so staff can put wheelchairs etc only onto those two coaches. And notwithstanding the walk through design of the trains, they are not 'wheel through' as the size of the accessible toilet etc prevents a full width passage from the centre coaches to the more remote parts of the train.

Oh gosh I immediately started thinking of problems with that. Suppose some helpful passengers get a wheelchair bound passenger in to the "wrong" part of the train :-
Problem #1 - the accessible loo will not be er accessible !.
Problem #2 - the ramps will not be able to take a wheelchair bound person back off at their destination (I am trying to think of the least used unstaffed station !).

 

[southern442]

Oh gosh I immediately started thinking of problems with that. Suppose some helpful passengers get a wheelchair bound passenger in to the "wrong" part of the train :-
Problem #1 - the accessible loo will not be er accessible !.
Problem #2 - the ramps will not be able to take a wheelchair bound person back off at their destination (I am trying to think of the least used unstaffed station !).

It is like the double strength tyres or electronic handbrakes in cars. Supposed to make things easier in theory, but in practice, if something goes wrong, you're screwed.

 

[swt_passenger]

Makes me feel oh so important knowing that my local station will be serviced by the longest units in the UK (12-car units) not just mere little Pendolinos.

Unfortunately at least some of the Pendolinos are still a bit longer at 11 X 23m...

 

[Emblematic]

Well, as the wheelchair spaces are either side of the accessible toilet (which adjoins the middle gangway of the train) that at least should present no obstacle. The gap between the 2+2 seating is wider than usual, and might be navigable by wheelchair, although not easily and only when there are no standees. I don't foresee the problem occurring often, anyone needing a ramp to board should be aided by staff.

 

[Class377/5]

Well, as the wheelchair spaces are either side of the accessible toilet (which adjoins the middle gangway of the train) that at least should present no obstacle. The gap between the 2+2 seating is wider than usual, and might be navigable by wheelchair, although not easily and only when there are no standees. I don't foresee the problem occurring often, anyone needing a ramp to board should be aided by staff.

I think you'll find its 2+1 in thar area to allow wheelchairs to have good access.

 

[spinba11]

Makes sense now, I heard the train floor was lower (like the S stock is on LU) is the core part from STP to BFR?