Thameslink/ Class 700 Progress

[Domh245]

There are rumours of (some?) of First class being permanently declassified on some services that are always booked for Thameslink 700s.

Eg Wimbledon Loop and Catford Loop services?

 

[AM9]

There are rumours of (some?) of First class being permanently declassified on some services that are always booked for Thameslink 700s.

But wouldn't that reduce the flexibility of a common fleet that the 700s will finally bring to all Thameslink routes? The appropriate 12 or 8-car train should be suitable for whichever diagram it is allocated and the worst situation would be an 8-car substituting for a 12. The CIS should be able to inform passengers of any declassification on a journey by journey basis.

 

[jon0844]

The CIS should be able to inform passengers of any declassification on a journey by journey basis.

Nooo! Don't tell everyone!

Many services run with first class not marked in the timetable, and it's not advertised.

It's different if a service that does have first class marked is officially declassified, due to overcrowding or short forming (the latter not really an issue on the 700s, but I guess if an earlier service was cancelled then that would count).

 

[fusionblue]

Nooo! Don't tell everyone!

Many services run with first class not marked in the timetable, and it's not advertised.

It's different if a service that does have first class marked is officially declassified, due to overcrowding or short forming (the latter not really an issue on the 700s, but I guess if an earlier service was cancelled then that would count).

In the FCC days the consensus was all wimbledon/catford loop services was declassified (and i have an email from FCC confirming this). Now TL has returned there is first class services, at least, via catford a few times a day in both directions but south of Elephant the PIS make no mention of first class seats and TL doesn't publicise this anywhere. The only way to find out is to buy a ticket and search for first class options.

Combine that with the SET-style of "get on the train, sit anywhere" that people in SET Metro Land have long been used to it can technically run the risk of penalty fares and the like for doing exactly what they are used to.

 

[Class377/5]

In the FCC days the consensus was all wimbledon/catford loop services was declassified (and i have an email from FCC confirming this). Now TL has returned there is first class services, at least, via catford a few times a day in both directions but south of Elephant the PIS make no mention of first class seats and TL doesn't publicise this anywhere. The only way to find out is to buy a ticket and search for first class options.

Combine that with the SET-style of "get on the train, sit anywhere" that people in SET Metro Land have long been used to it can technically run the risk of penalty fares and the like for doing exactly what they are used to.

There was first class services to Sutton and Sevenoaks under FCC, it was the trains that ran to/from Bedford that were first class. The CIS system is slightly different from FCC days hence the differences now see.

But wouldn't that reduce the flexibility of a common fleet that the 700s will finally bring to all Thameslink routes? The appropriate 12 or 8-car train should be suitable for whichever diagram it is allocated and the worst situation would be an 8-car substituting for a 12. The CIS should be able to inform passengers of any declassification on a journey by journey basis.

People are confusing services with trains. Services will be declassified but trains will still have first class seating but anyone will be able to use them on declassified routes.

There originally was three sub classes of the 700 south the 8 car no first class dropped.

 

[fusionblue]

There was first class services to Sutton and Sevenoaks under FCC, it was the trains that ran to/from Bedford that were first class. The CIS system is slightly different from FCC days hence the differences now see.

Interesting. FCC told me that from say City Thameslink to Bellingham it is always declassified.

 

[asylumxl]

There was first class services to Sutton and Sevenoaks under FCC, it was the trains that ran to/from Bedford that were first class. The CIS system is slightly different from FCC days hence the differences now see.

You mean the CIS didn't spend most of the time giving TfL status updates. Somethjng that's particularly annoying when there is disruption.

 

[westcoaster]

Interesting. FCC told me that from say City Thameslink to Bellingham it is always declassified.

It was always a grey area because it was North of blackfriars on a sevenoaks train then first was first, but South it was any seat for all.

 

[Class377/5]

You mean the CIS didn't spend most of the time giving TfL status updates. Somethjng that's particularly annoying when there is disruption.

Agreed.

 

[jon0844]

Agreed.

Why they've changed screens to say the next train MAY not stop also confuses me, given the accompanying voice still says WILL not stop.

 

[radamfi]

I saw a 700 travelling very slowly southbound (about 5-10 mph) just south of Three Bridges at this location about 1430 this afternoon

http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/51.10979/-0.16149

 

[JaJaWa]

Why they've changed screens to say the next train MAY not stop also confuses me, given the accompanying voice still says WILL not stop.

The screens at St Pancras low level now seem to freeze on this too, blocking out the first train from showing (even when it has arrived)... really the 1st and 2nd trains should be shifted down rather than just the 2nd and 3rd showing.

 

[AM9]

People are confusing services with trains. Services will be declassified but trains will still have first class seating but anyone will be able to use them on declassified routes. ...

I was assuming that the trains will stay as they are and not have any 'permanent declassification' as is the case when labels are attached to them. Of course the tables and different seats will be there but on each journey of a diagram, the status of the first class areas should be clearly shown. That means that (if required within one diagram) an 8-car set could do a Sutton Loop run back to Luton (with first declassified), and then run an off-peak service to Three Bridges (with first class operational as normal).
All that could be adequately indicated via the CIS/PIS. If the Thameslink service with the 700s is designed to be robust enough to continue effectively with most failures/disruptions, every train must be available to cover for others (save for the capacity limitations of the 8-car units and the route limitations of the 12-car units).

 

[Class377/5]

I saw a 700 travelling very slowly southbound (about 5-10 mph) just south of Three Bridges at this location about 1430 this afternoon

http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/51.10979/-0.16149

That's the deposit location.

I was assuming that the trains will stay as they are and not have any 'permanent declassification' as is the case when labels are attached to them. Of course the tables and different seats will be there but on each journey of a diagram, the status of the first class areas should be clearly shown. That means that (if required within one diagram) an 8-car set could do a Sutton Loop run back to Luton (with first declassified), and then run an off-peak service to Three Bridges (with first class operational as normal).
All that could be adequately indicated via the CIS/PIS. If the Thameslink service with the 700s is designed to be robust enough to continue effectively with most failures/disruptions, every train must be available to cover for others (save for the capacity limitations of the 8-car units and the route limitations of the 12-car units).

Every train wasnt need for service in the diagrams I've seen with hot spareand sperate maintenance allocation.

 

[Julian G]

3 700s out tonight. 1 to Luton,1 to Leagrave and 1 doing East Croydon-Brighton.

 

[radamfi]

That's the deposit location.

What's a deposit location?

There were two of them parked at the other side of the tracks this afternoon, at about 1230, so you would have had a good view if you were on a train south of Three Bridges towards Brighton.

 

[Class377/5]

3 700s out tonight. 1 to Luton,1 to Leagrave and 1 doing East Croydon-Brighton.

Not tonight there isn't. Has been multiple units out all week however.

What's a deposit location?

There were two of them parked at the other side of the tracks this afternoon, at about 1230, so you would have had a good view if you were on a train south of Three Bridges towards Brighton.

Depot location. Joy of writing on the train.

106/108 were on ther Up Side Sidings this afternoon. In fact they were there this morning too.

 

[absolutelymilk]

According to this, the 700s will be introduced from 16th April.
Thameslink commitments

Is that still correct?

 

[jon0844]

According to this, the 700s will be introduced from 16th April.
Thameslink commitments

Is that still correct?

Funny reading the commitment about opening the Moorgate branch at weekends (December 2015). It doesn't actually mention having drivers to run trains - just opening the stations.

 

[swt_passenger]

According to this, the 700s will be introduced from 16th April.
Thameslink commitments

Is that still correct?

Seems achievable in theory if deliveries arrive as previously planned? They are supposed to release a good few 387/1s by then as well...

 

[southern442]

According to this, the 700s will be introduced from 16th April.
Thameslink commitments

Is that still correct?

Considering the fact that they seem to be delivering them on schedule and the testing of them is all going smoothly thus far, it doesn't seem like an unrealistic expectation.

 

[D365]

Funny reading the commitment about opening the Moorgate branch at weekends (December 2015). It doesn't actually mention having drivers to run trains - just opening the stations.

Are they planning on sneaking UTO [driverless trains] past the unions? It couldn't be

 

[JaJaWa]

According to this, the 700s will be introduced from 16th April.
Thameslink commitments

Is that still correct?

Pretty sure that's a new date, I think my printed copy says March

 

[AM9]

Pretty sure that's a new date, I think my printed copy says March

Given that a few weeks delay in releasing the 387s won't cause the GWML to collapse, a 4-week slip is hardly worth mentioning, - unless it's yet another bit of scahdenfreude in the clas700 story.

 

[bramling]

Given that a few weeks delay in releasing the 387s won't cause the GWML to collapse, a 4-week slip is hardly worth mentioning, - unless it's yet another bit of scahdenfreude in the clas700 story.

The more delay before they arrive the better. I for one would be quite happy if these awful trains never enter service.

 

[AM9]

The more delay before they arrive the better. I for one would be quite happy if these awful trains never enter service.

Their initial service will be on current Thameslink services. I would imagine that by the time they are due for ex-GN routes, they will be back on schedule.

 

[bramling]

Their initial service will be on current Thameslink services. I would imagine that by the time they are due for ex-GN routes, they will be back on schedule.

We wait to see how passengers will react to their current comfortable trains being replaced with rubbish that will provide tram levels of comfort.

Worse will come when the service starts becoming unreliable in 2018 marking the completion of a comprehensive downgrade.

 

[grid56126]

We wait to see how passengers will react to their current comfortable trains being replaced with rubbish that will provide tram levels of comfort.

Worse will come when the service starts becoming unreliable in 2018 marking the completion of a comprehensive downgrade.

Glass half full then.... Having travelled on one for almost three hours I was pleasantly sursprised by their comfort, performance and quality of build and roominess (and I need that!) . Please do not run away with the idea that this makes me an apologist. One thing that the vast majority of critics on here have not done is actually been on one yet.

I accept there are issues around trinket trays / tables but that aside I cannot see any major issues with their introduction.

 

[AM9]

Glass half full then.... Having travelled on one for almost three hours I was pleasantly sursprised by their comfort, performance and quality of build and roominess (and I need that!) . Please do not run away with the idea that this makes me an apologist. One thing that the vast majority of critics on here have not done is actually been on one yet.

I accept there are issues around trinket trays / tables but that aside I cannot see any major issues with their introduction.

It's not every poster on RUK that actually wants to see either the trains or the service breakdown, but some here clearly just want to say "well I told you so!".
It's not unusual for new trains to have a few teething problems, (even the fourth batch of Desiros (350/3 & 350/4) had a bad patch on introduction) so any sensible observer shouldn't gloat at the first in-service sit-down of a new generation train.
As far as the infrastructure goes, virtually all the route with OLE is blessed with headspans, so logically, those inadequate constructs of the 1980s will be no more robust with shiny new trains with their BR/BW pantographs than they are at present. Any cat calling about wires coming down will be non-news.

 

[jon0844]

When people can get a seat or walk around more freely to find one, or they can stand with some space, or get through the aisles to get off, they're going to like these trains.