Thameslink/ Class 700 Progress

[Class377/5]

Luggage racks appear to be the standard Desiro ones which will take even the largest of wheelie cases.

Luggage racks also have ability to put ones on wheels on the bottom half.

Though they'll be running on the GN on 125mph sections
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Current TL stock (319s, 377s, 387s) goes to the existing Horsney depot for some work. It currently has to go by a convoluted route (though I'm not sure the full details of this)

387s don't go to Hornsey. They've got Selhurst for work.

As or 125mph sections GN, yes that's the line speed but the TOC is 100mph. The difference the extra miles an hour make minimum difference to amount of stops way wroth calling patterns so not relly add useful as the raw numbers make out.

 

[LBSCR Times]

I'd be interested to know when they'll test them on the Bedpan route, potentially at speed.

Hopefully next week!

 

[whoosh]

700107 at London Blackfriars.
Thameslink Class 700107 at London Blackfriars by Julian, on Flickr

Quite a rarity for UK stock - it's using two headlights rather than one and a marker light. It is in the first video posted by Class377/5 as well. Class 91/Mk4 DVT, Eurostars, and the original lights on HSTs, are the only other trains I can think of that use two headlights.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Will they be power limited when operating on 3rd rail like SWT's units are?

 

[AM9]

Will they be power limited when operating on 3rd rail like SWT's units are?

At 5MW for a 12-car unit, I don't see how they can't be considerably crippled. They will be one more new train class that will demonstrate the unsuitability of 750VDC for anything other than metro or very low density running. I imagine that they will be limited to 60% or less than their full power.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

At 5MW for a 12-car unit, I don't see how they can't be considerably crippled. They will be one more new train class that will demonstrate the unsuitability of 750VDC for anything other than metro or very low density running. I imagine that they will be limited to 60% or less than their full power.

Long-term does the part of TL south of the Thames (the 3rd rail part) get enough traffic to one day justify the cost of converting it over to overhead?

 

[jonboy]

Dose anyone know the unit that was on test last night
thank you

 

[jopsuk]

Long-term does the part of TL south of the Thames (the 3rd rail part) get enough traffic to one day justify the cost of converting it over to overhead?

"maybe". That's about as good an answer. Currently the existing and future Thameslink routes though are still shared in part with Networkers and 455s that can't be converted to AC operation, as well as large numbers of 377s and 375s that can be but currently don't sport pantographs. There's a huge number of tunnels and bridges; conversion will not be trivial.

 

[AM9]

Long-term does the part of TL south of the Thames (the 3rd rail part) get enough traffic to one day justify the cost of converting it over to overhead?

The Brighton Main Line south of East Croydon is where the DC supply shows its inadequacies the most. There are fewer overbridges here but a few tunnels. One day, the cost of refurbishing the infrastructure to an OLE compatible structure as well as erecting the OLE instead of replacing 3rd rail and the increasing number of DC feeder substations will tip the balance in favour of 25Kv operations.
Then the Electrostars and 700s will be able to give their full performance on this crowded route.

 

[andrewkeith5]

Dose anyone know the unit that was on test last night
thank you

I tried to catch it at Gatwick but unfortunately the platform it was passing was put on RTT too late and I got there just as the end flew past - weirdly they chose to run fast through Platform 4, which was chock full of people, instead of the empth platform 2...presumably for pathing or speed, but they didn't make much of an effort to slow down! So no exucse for the pathetically slow non-stoppers GTR/Southern (whatever they're called this week) usuall run....

Is it normal for trains not to stop at stations they are 'scheduled' to when running these test paths? It was scheduled to spend a minute at TBD and a minute and a half at GTW but flew straight through both.

 

[Dr Iver]

Hi Andrew. It's down to the driver and what the signaller does. When I have driven empties with stops for timing I have just kept going through. If you get too far ahead of yourself the signaller will stop you somewhere further up and make you wait until you get back on your booked time. Sometimes they let you straight through. Just depends really but you'll just go and see what happens!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Luggage racks also have ability to put ones on wheels on the bottom half.

There are full height ones as well as overheads? That's good.

 

[jonboy]

I tried to catch it at Gatwick but unfortunately the platform it was passing was put on RTT too late and I got there just as the end flew past - weirdly they chose to run fast through Platform 4, which was chock full of people, instead of the empth platform 2...presumably for pathing or speed, but they didn't make much of an effort to slow down! So no exucse for the pathetically slow non-stoppers GTR/Southern (whatever they're called this week) usuall run....

Is it normal for trains not to stop at stations they are 'scheduled' to when running these test paths? It was scheduled to spend a minute at TBD and a minute and a half at GTW but flew straight through both.

Thank you anyway

 

[Philip Phlopp]

The Brighton Main Line south of East Croydon is where the DC supply shows its inadequacies the most. There are fewer overbridges here but a few tunnels. One day, the cost of refurbishing the infrastructure to an OLE compatible structure as well as erecting the OLE instead of replacing 3rd rail and the increasing number of DC feeder substations will tip the balance in favour of 25Kv operations.
Then the Electrostars and 700s will be able to give their full performance on this crowded route.

It's actively being explored and worked on - it's a good option for a self contained rolling conversion program, being run as a CrossRail type project outwith the usual Control Period structures.

It's got to the stage where demands on DC, limits in performance, limits in train length, reduced regeneration capacity and few issues with the provision of AC units are going to make conversion cost neutral (i.e a BCR of 1:1). When the replacement of life expired DC equipment is considered, there's a good business case for AC conversion, but as with everything, there's not the staff or plant to really consider it quite yet.

The excellent display with Furrer+Frey's solid conductor rail at Old Dalby and the deployment of it across the network will certainly result in some tunnels, bridges and other assorted structures being scored off the 'too hard and too expensive' list.

 

[trainmania100]

Hearing some rumours about this running tomorrow being a 700?
5Z70 10+06 Three Bridges TL UP Depot - Preston Park 10+34
5Z71 10+44 Preston Park - East Croydon 11+30
5Z72 11+40 East Croydon - Preston Park 12+34
5Z73 12+44 Preston Park - East Croydon 13+30
5Z74 13+40 East Croydon - Three Bridges TL UP Depot

 

[Class377/5]

Long-term does the part of TL south of the Thames (the 3rd rail part) get enough traffic to one day justify the cost of converting it over to overhead?

Originally the wires were to be extended from Farringdon to Tulse Hill under the TLP but they got cut back to City due to high costs. Long plan is now to wire from the coast towards Lodon.

Dose anyone know the unit that was on test last night
thank you

700107 is only unit at present.

Is it normal for trains not to stop at stations they are 'scheduled' to when running these test paths? It was scheduled to spend a minute at TBD and a minute and a half at GTW but flew straight through both.

There is no schedule to stop at stops at present, that comes later. Current of testing is for checking enduring works OK which is going successfully.

There are full height ones as well as overheads? That's good.

There are two parts to them. Was shown to go effect on the lock up.

Hearing some rumours about this running tomorrow being a 700?
5Z70 10+06 Three Bridges TL UP Depot - Preston Park 10+34
5Z71 10+44 Preston Park - East Croydon 11+30
5Z72 11+40 East Croydon - Preston Park 12+34
5Z73 12+44 Preston Park - East Croydon 13+30
5Z74 13+40 East Croydon - Three Bridges TL UP Depot

Anything out of the TL Up Depot should be class 700 now, however testing can change.

 

[LBSCR Times]

Hearing some rumours about this running tomorrow being a 700?
5Z70 10+06 Three Bridges TL UP Depot - Preston Park 10+34
5Z71 10+44 Preston Park - East Croydon 11+30
5Z72 11+40 East Croydon - Preston Park 12+34
5Z73 12+44 Preston Park - East Croydon 13+30
5Z74 13+40 East Croydon - Three Bridges TL UP Depot

No.
The next trips should be Monday evening, over to the AC side of the route.
And not coming back until Friday.....

 

[trainmania100]

700 paths for the above times to preston park and east croydon have been activated yet no reports.
Might head out to see if it is running but doubt it is

 

[grid56126]

A few photos from the 23th November, mostly internal shots, bit of a walk through . . . .

http://goo.gl/KLWGey

 

[Bletchleyite]

A few photos from the 23th November, mostly internal shots, bit of a walk through . . . .

http://goo.gl/KLWGey

That bogie looks tread braked to me. That is surprising. Is it because of leaf-related adhesion issues? These must be the first new tread braked units since, what, Class 156s?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
As for the rest of it they look certainly more than fit for purpose, if a little stark (the interior atmosphere would have been IMO made more friendly by the use of spot lighting rather than just a row of tubes/LEDs up the middle, and possibly also a darker floor). I do worry about the cantilevered seats, though, as to whether they will start to sag down when one too many kids has jumped up and down on them, or 20+ stone blokes have sat down heavily.

 

[southern442]

A few photos from the 23th November, mostly internal shots, bit of a walk through . . . .

http://goo.gl/KLWGey

Ignoring the seats (which have been complained about too many times, so I'm not about to say anything now), I think the interior atmosphere as a whole isn't bad. The lighting could have been a bit warmer, but the design is very sleek and everything seems to fit in nicely.

 

[coppercapped]

That bogie looks tread braked to me. That is surprising. Is it because of leaf-related adhesion issues? These must be the first new tread braked units since, what, Class 156s?

This has been covered in the technical press. The photograph shows a motor bogie. As the bogies are of the inside framed type it is not possible to fit disc brakes to the wheel cheeks as there is insufficient space for the pad callipers between the wheel and the frame and suspension components. It is obviously impossible to fit the discs to the axle as it is encased by the final drive tube. As a result tread brakes are fitted.

The trailer bogies, on the other hand, are disc braked with the discs on the axles.

 

[southern442]

As for the rest of it they look certainly more than fit for purpose, if a little stark (the interior atmosphere would have been IMO made more friendly by the use of spot lighting rather than just a row of tubes/LEDs up the middle, and possibly also a darker floor). I do worry about the cantilevered seats, though, as to whether they will start to sag down when one too many kids has jumped up and down on them, or 20+ stone blokes have sat down heavily.

I think that might have been taken into consideration, the main advantage of cantilevered seats is they are easier to clean - I think the idea came from the MF88 Paris Metro trains.

 

[JaJaWa]

I hadn't realised how much wider the middle of the train is compared to the floor level - the doors really bulge outwards, and it looks like it's affecting leg space for the window seats? Not a massive fan of how grey everything is - it could have been done in a pale colour such as pastel blue.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Ignoring the seats (which have been complained about too many times, so I'm not about to say anything now), I think the interior atmosphere as a whole isn't bad. The lighting could have been a bit warmer, but the design is very sleek and everything seems to fit in nicely.

Exactly the kind of quality one would expect from Herr Siemens

 

[grid56126]

That bogie looks tread braked to me. That is surprising. Is it because of leaf-related adhesion issues? These must be the first new tread braked units since, what, Class 156s?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
As for the rest of it they look certainly more than fit for purpose, if a little stark (the interior atmosphere would have been IMO made more friendly by the use of spot lighting rather than just a row of tubes/LEDs up the middle, and possibly also a darker floor). I do worry about the cantilevered seats, though, as to whether they will start to sag down when one too many kids has jumped up and down on them, or 20+ stone blokes have sat down heavily.

I have a photo of the seat having the ultimate test. Myself! Not a hint of movement and the Siemens engineers were not noticeably concerned when they saw me sitting on them ! By the way First class seats were all covered and had personal effects so no photos just yet

 

[physics34]

Ignoring the seats (which have been complained about too many times, so I'm not about to say anything now), I think the interior atmosphere as a whole isn't bad. The lighting could have been a bit warmer, but the design is very sleek and everything seems to fit in nicely.

they are the perfect metro unit, its just the longer distance stuff.... the services which passengers will be on for 1hr or more that are the issues.

Basically the 1st class arrangement should actually be the standard seating thoughout the 12 car trains.

 

[Bletchleyite]

But then you get less standing capacity.

If you want InterCity quality on a Bedford-Brighton journey you've always got the option of travelling via London on EMT and Southern.

Thameslink is really a metro-type service like Crossrail that happens to be extended out a bit further for added convenience.

 

[physics34]

I hadn't realised how much wider the middle of the train is compared to the floor level - the doors really bulge outwards, and it looks like it's affecting leg space for the window seats? Not a massive fan of how grey everything is - it could have been done in a pale colour such as pastel blue.

yep have noticed the trucking jutting out at floor level affecting footspace. Wonder if they have tested having two people sat side by side on these seats for 2 hours.

 

[southern442]

they are the perfect metro unit, its just the longer distance stuff.... the services which passengers will be on for 1hr or more that are the issues.

Basically the 1st class arrangement should actually be the standard seating thoughout the 12 car trains.

Yes exactly. It's not designed with all passengers in mind.