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TfW Request Stop Trial
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Western 52
Established Member
I wonder how the stop request is given to the driver? For those wanting to get off I suppose it's ask the guard as usual.
Longstanding USA user of this system, the Norristown line in Pennsylvania, has a signal at braking distance before the station, which the train resets as passing.
TheTallOne
Member
Simple option would be a big light near the station. But simple might not be safe/compliant?
Guess the safest option would be to have a red signal at the end of the platform and then the rest of the preceding signals would be slowing the train down ready for the red?
Although then how does it deal with stopping and non-stoping services? It'd have to show the red after the express had gone through and keep it red for the local?
Don't want the customer pressing the button too soon and the logic just making the signal red straight away.
Could it send a message to a signaller in the control room? And/or the train itself if it could work out the next non-express train?
Guess the safest option would be to have a red signal at the end of the platform and then the rest of the preceding signals would be slowing the train down ready for the red?
Although then how does it deal with stopping and non-stoping services? It'd have to show the red after the express had gone through and keep it red for the local?
Don't want the customer pressing the button too soon and the logic just making the signal red straight away.
Could it send a message to a signaller in the control room? And/or the train itself if it could work out the next non-express train?
Norristown Line, Pennsylvania USA, station.
Note right-hand running, stopping signal for nearer platform is behind photographer. Stop button on platform. Opposite direction stop signal (just) visible, mounted immediately beyond end of platform, this one visible from well down the line. Non-stop services just don't stop, even if button pressed - a sign on the platform (and in timetables) says so.
Note right-hand running, stopping signal for nearer platform is behind photographer. Stop button on platform. Opposite direction stop signal (just) visible, mounted immediately beyond end of platform, this one visible from well down the line. Non-stop services just don't stop, even if button pressed - a sign on the platform (and in timetables) says so.
Mcr Warrior
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How many request stops are there in Wales these days?
Western 52
Established Member
Quite a few. Most on the HOWL, plus many on the Cambrian coast. Some in west Wales too.
Mcr Warrior
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Ta. Trying to establish how many are on lines that have any non-stop passenger train services running on them.
Valley, Rhosneigr, Ty Croes, Bodorgan and Llanfairpwll all have non-stop trains
“Signal” of a different colour and shape at stopping distance. Signal lit means no stop requested - signal not lit = stop requested. Non-stop trains can just ignore it (though by their nature there aren’t many request stops on lines where there’s likely to be a “fast” in the period of time before a stopper when a prospective passenger might press the stop button.
Anonymous10
Established Member
West Wales i believe is as follows, Milford/ Fishguard line - Clarbeston Road (depending on service), Clynderwen.
Pembroke dock line Lamphey, manorbier (when heading west), Penally, Saundersfoot, Kilgetty, Narberth (not unusual to see all these be used as regular service stops in summer though).
Carmarthen - Swansea
Kidwelly and Ferryside.
Making by my maths 10 in West Wales.
Farigiraf
Member
Johnston between Milford Haven and Haverfordwest is also a request stop.
Anonymous10
Established Member
Oops yes, forgot that one...
Western 52
Established Member
Kidwelly and Ferryside are not usually request stops these days.
Anonymous10
Established Member
Ah ok, when I used to pass them they were didn't realise it changed.
edwin_m
Veteran Member
This saves a bit of brake wear and fuel because the train doesn't have to slow down and speed up on the chance that they have to stop on seeing someone on the platform. But I assume the timetable will still have to be planned on the assumption that trains may need to stop each time - especially when it's a single line.
SuperLuke2334
Established Member
How does the system work on the lines north of Inverness in Scotland?
Surreytraveller
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Brake pads are changed after so many miles, so makes no difference.
Trains are also fuelled depending upon how many miles they're diagrammed to work, so makes no difference
You can't put in more than the tank capacity though... If it's full after less than the miles of the diagram you've made a saving.
Although I'm not sure how wide spread filling units just for the particular diagram is, certainly seems unwise. I know from my experience it didn't happen where I worked as the units worked away from a fuel point several days in a row.
It's an add-on to the RETB signalling used on those line.
SuperLuke2334
Established Member
Thank you. It will be interesting to see how this works with TfW units then, that do not have this system!
zwk500
Veteran Member
Presumably the timetable planning won't change at all, and it'll still be a zero-second 'dot stop' with half a minute adjustment allowance after each request stop.
Given the limited benefits of request stops and additional issues with them I don't really see why they aren't just advertised as normal stops (or closed, if appropriate).
edwin_m
Veteran Member
Indeed, there's a strong argument that if a stop doesn't have enough passengers for at least one to be boarding or alighting on every calling train, then it probably shouldn't be a stop in the first place. But that runs into political issues of course.
flitwickbeds
Member
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At least one passenger per calling train seems quite a high threshold. Some popular high frequency stations would no longer be served under your proposal!
Most of the request stops in West Wales on the Pembroke and Milford lines are regularly called at whenever ive used these services. This is also why Kidwelly and Ferryside became booked stops as almost every service would call there.
The Heart of Wales is a different story and quite a few of them are missed when I have used the HOWL line. Never called at Bynea when ive used it or Sugar Loaf and very rarely at a few others such as Llanbister Road and Pen y Bont. Unsure about North Wales but when I recently used the Conwy Valley as far as Betws-Y-Coed all request stops were called at even Dolgarrog. I myself used Glan Conwy to alight the train but there was someone waiting to get on also so it would have stopped.
The Heart of Wales is a different story and quite a few of them are missed when I have used the HOWL line. Never called at Bynea when ive used it or Sugar Loaf and very rarely at a few others such as Llanbister Road and Pen y Bont. Unsure about North Wales but when I recently used the Conwy Valley as far as Betws-Y-Coed all request stops were called at even Dolgarrog. I myself used Glan Conwy to alight the train but there was someone waiting to get on also so it would have stopped.
zwk500
Veteran Member
I'd not go as far as that, although I do think there are cases for stations to be made limited times only as well as outright closure. Lots of these stations will cost very little to run, so the threshold for staying open can remain very low for social value.
This doesn't really apply to TfW, almost all TfW request stops have dwell time, some of up to 60 seconds!
zwk500
Veteran Member
Fair enough, that's changed in the rules in the last couple of years, but makes even less sense to retain request stops.
I believe it’s 58. Hopefully the map I’ve added is of decent quality.
As for how it will work, it will use the GSMR system and there will be (I believe) an additional small display to inform the driver of whether someone at the stop has pressed the button to request the train to stop. This part hasn’t been implemented yet so there will be staff that are part of the project with a mobile phone linked to the platform system, on the trains in question to tell the guard if there is someone waiting who can inform the driver in the appropriate manner.
I’m not certain how it will tie in with guards either, whether it will be linked to their work phones, whether only the driver will know and they still use the old system of buzzing the driver to say they don’t have anyone onboard to get off. It’s early days so I wouldn’t be overly surprised if that part of the method of working hasn’t been decided yet.
As for fuel, at Mach, every train that comes on to depot of a night time gets fuelled to max. So if the train uses less fuel for the same mileage since it was last fuelled then that is a cost saving.
I’m not totally sure on the brake changes but I’ll have to ask now out of curiosity.
197’s work differently though, as they have a dynamic brake which gets used exclusively above a certain speed so brake wear will be less. But perhaps there are other benefits in terms of mechanical sympathy if the dynamic brake isn’t having to work as hard all the time.
As a Cambrian coast driver with our 15 request stops, I’m supportive of it but can see it having its own issues / not being as effective as hoped.
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