TfW PAYG - North Wales

[gray1404]

Do we know what the fares will be as far as Chester and Rhyl and what zones they will be placed in.

 

[markymark2000]

Do we know what the fares will be as far as Chester and Rhyl and what zones they will be placed in.

£4.30 single, £9.30 daily cap

Purchase flexible walk-up fares for any British train journey

Purchase flexible single/return tickets & Travelcards – in 3 clicks. Full details of all British rail fares shown, with built-in Season Ticket Calculator.

www.brfares.com

 

[Edvid]

Do we know what the fares will be as far as Chester and Rhyl and what zones they will be placed in.

You can check the submitted single fares and caps for specific journeys on BR Fares (see Rhyl-Chester example). No idea what zones they'll be in though.

 

[Djgr]

I've not seen any examples elsewhere to the contrary.

(As a reminder Rhyl is the western boundary of Phase 2)

And I guess Shotton already has one (although not on the lower platforms)?

 

[Kite159]

You can check the submitted single fares and caps for specific journeys on BR Fares (see Rhyl-Chester example). No idea what zones they'll be in though.

View attachment 209020

£4.30 using PAYG compared with £18.10 for a paper ticket! That is a massive difference

 

[Edvid]

And I guess Shotton already has one (although not on the lower platforms)?

Not been there myself but I'd be surprised if it didn't.

£4.30 using PAYG compared with £18.10 for a paper ticket! That is a massive difference

Quite! Let's see if they stick with that when Phase 2 goes live.

 

[positron]

Has that route tended to be a bit of an anomaly price wise? There's a few examples on the south Wales scheme where it's drastically cheaper too.

 

[Northerngirl]

The whole north Wales coast has been a mess with fairs for ages, its like £5 for a few stops, and then one further is £20. Hopefully this will be a big step change and with the new timetable, make the whole thing useable between towns far better. Does anyone know if avani will be included

 

[positron]

Does anyone know if avani will be included

I've not seen anything either way, unfortunately given it's first group I suspect they probably won't accept it (GWR don't down south).

Cross country do though so there's a small chance.

Edit: their site says this for north Wales PAYG. But it's unclear if that's just because of phase 1 stations or if it'll stay for phase 2.

• It’s currently valid on TfW services only.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Aug 2026 ==

Any new pay as you go scheme nowadays should have the ability for railcard discounts to be applied by default.

While I agree in theory. In practice I think it might be a bit unfair on TfW to demand of them. There's essentially only 4 bank card pay as you go rail systems in the country as far as I'm aware. TfL's, TfW South Wales, Merseyrail's and now TfW North Wales. TfL by the far the biggest and oldest still doesn't offer Railcard discount.

In fact the only one I'm aware of that has it in any capacity is TfW's via their beta app. Hopefully, it'll have a wider roll out very soon to give TfL a bit of egg on their face. It still won't alleviate all of the situations where a paper ticket is cheaper (e.g. children) but it'll make their lowest fare promise more real.

 

[Edvid]

I used Google Pay to travel on the Borderlands line yesterday afternoon and the conductor didn't have a NFC scanner so they took it on faith. That may be because takeup is still low at present - from what I could tell the vast majority of passengers either had a ticket or bought one from the conductor.

To add to the remarks about TfW / Merseyrail readers looking similar, at Bidston's south entrance (next to the bike rack) there's a yellow reader but no notice to explain you have to use the pink reader on the platform if you're using TfW. Even if you take note of the pink reader and tap in it likely won't occur to the average traveller (if they tapped in at the entrance) that they should tap out of Merseyrail before travelling for a zero-fare same station 'exit'.

 

[Djgr]

I used Google Pay to travel on the Borderlands line yesterday afternoon and the conductor didn't have a NFC scanner so they took it on faith. That may be because takeup is still low at present - from what I could tell the vast majority of passengers either had a ticket or bought one from the conductor.

To add to the remarks about TfW / Merseyrail readers looking similar, at Bidston's south entrance (next to the bike rack) there's a yellow reader but no notice to explain you have to use the pink reader on the platform if you're using TfW. Even if you take note of the pink reader and tap in it likely won't occur to the average traveller (if they tapped in at the entrance) that they should tap out of Merseyrail before travelling for a zero-fare same station 'exit'.

Is there not also a yellow reader on the platform close to the pink one? I thought the signage on the platform was okay?

I also don't think Borderlands conductors can read Metrocards (valid Bidston to Heswall). Fortunately, in my experience, the train crew are friendly and helpful.

 

[Edvid]

Is there not also a yellow reader on the platform close to the pink one? I thought the signage on the platform was okay?

Yes, there's also a yellow reader on the platform and the signage is fine as pictured below, certainly for those transferring between TfW and Merseyrail. However - granted I'm playing devil's advocate here - if someone's tapped in (unintentionally) with Merseyrail at the entrance and see the platform signs thereafter, they may decide that only a TfW tap in is sufficient to correct their mistake because they're not travelling with Merseyrail and therefore don't need a tap out.

I also don't think Borderlands conductors can read Metrocards (valid Bidston to Heswall). Fortunately, in my experience, the train crew are friendly and helpful.

No arguments there.

 

[Djgr]

Yes, there's also a yellow reader on the platform and the signage is fine as pictured below, certainly for those transferring between TfW and Merseyrail. However - granted I'm playing devil's advocate here - if someone's tapped in (unintentionally) with Merseyrail at the entrance and see the platform signs thereafter, they may decide that only a TfW tap in is sufficient to correct their mistake because they're not travelling with Merseyrail and therefore don't need a tap out.

View attachment 209356


No arguments there.

It looks like Bidston is collecting signs as if they were scout badges!

 

[Dan A]

I really hope they can clean up the signage at Bidston a bit:-
It's pretty good if you stop and read it, but if we're going to go full dutch 'overstappen' mode then it's worth looking at what the dutch do in these situations.

Like this example: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:NS-Blauwnet_overstap,_Zwolle_Station_(2018)_01.jpg

 

[Agricola]

Rhyl station concourse closed on 07 September 2026 for a few days for installation of replacement ticket gates that will be compatible with the North Wales TfW pay as you go. A yellow card reader has also been installed by the night gate.

There is a poster on platform 1 showing the area that will be covered - from Rhyl to Runcorn East, Bidston to Gobowen.

 

[Kite159]

Is there any need for the multiple lines on that poster when a single line would be enough?

 

[Djgr]

I really hope they can clean up the signage at Bidston a bit:-
It's pretty good if you stop and read it, but if we're going to go full dutch 'overstappen' mode then it's worth looking at what the dutch do in these situations.

Like this example: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:NS-Blauwnet_overstap,_Zwolle_Station_(2018)_01.jpg

Bidston is a bit like those stores that spend millions on branding and design...and then litter their entrance with loads of poorly produced sheets of A4.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Sep 2026 ==

Is there any need for the multiple lines on that poster when a single line would be enough?

It's showing through services from Frodsham to Wrecsam, which is somewhat aspirational.

 

[Krokodil]

It's showing through services from Frodsham to Wrecsam, which is somewhat aspirational.

Well, it works the other way (twice per day)

 

[Djgr]

Well, it works the other way (twice per day)

Indeed, but if you are seeking to declutter the diagram

 

[Krokodil]

Indeed, but if you are seeking to declutter the diagram

If I'd come up with a diagram for this specific purpose I'd have used one line per geographic route, rather than per service. It's daft to show the Llandudno Junction-Birmingham and Holyhead-Cardiff seperately when for the section shown on the map they are identical.

 

[Envoy]

Good to see that Flintshire Council are warning people that Tap&Go is not cheaper if you have a Railcard - something that we in the south have long realised in the SEWales contactless area. People need to be very careful and check the Tap&Go Price against what it would cost buying a real ticket (especially with a Railcard or TFW bus pass concession).

"A Welsh council has warned rail passengers not to be misled by claims Transport for Wales new Tap and Go system offers the best value rail travel – as it charges every passenger an adult fare.

The move comes as TfW launches another social media ad campaign, this time to promote Tap and Go being available to passengers on the Wrexham-Bidston Borderlands Line".

Council warns rail users not to be misled by TfW Tap and Go value claims

Alec Doyle Local Democracy Reporter A Welsh council has warned rail passengers not to be misled by claims Transport for Wales new Tap and Go system offers the best value rail travel – as it charges every passenger an adult fare. The move comes as TfW launches another social media ad campaign...

nation.cymru

 

[positron]

Given how well the Railcard pilot is working for me down south at least I can't see why they haven't rolled it out more widely. It would avoid a lot of this negative press (it's much easier to just say kids shouldn't use it

 

[Krokodil]

Spoke to a North Wales-based guard last night and they told me that the inspection devices have been issued. Sounds like extension along the coast is imminent.

 

[Edvid]

Second phase went live today. As per the latest map:

* Chester, Ruabon and Shotton (low level) added to zone 1
* Chirk, Flint, Helsby added to zone 2
* Frodsham, Gobowen, Runcorn East added to zone 3
* Prestatyn, Rhyl added to zone... 7

Still nothing in zone 4, nothing in (presumably) new zone 6 either. No idea why...

Pay as you go now available at 25 stations in North Wales

Tap in and tap out train travel is now available at 25 stations in North East Wales as TfW extends the ticketing product to 10 new stations on the network.

news.tfw.wales

29 Sep 2026​

TfW first launched tap in and tap out ticketing in North Wales in May 2026 at 15 stations across the region and following its success has now extended it further. The 10 new stations joining the network are [as above].

[...]

TfW are working with other operators in the region, such as Merseyrail to explore options to improve the customer proposition around pay as you go, particularly at stations where the schemes touch.

Notes to editors​

---

• This marks the second phase of TfW's contactless tap in and tap out travel scheme for North East Wales and the borders, following its launch in May 2026 across 15 stations in the region.
• The expansion of contactless tap in and tap out forms part of Transport for  Wales’  wider T Network ambitions and is a critical milestone in the delivery of the Network North Wales programme. Aimed at enabling simpler, more affordable and more attractive public transport, while supporting improved rail services across the region. The Network North Wales programme has supported significantly in the introduction of contactless pay as you go travel in North East Wales.
• Platform validators at interchange stations (such as Bidston) are colour coded by operator: Transport for Wales are pink and Merseyrail’s are yellow. Passengers should make sure they tap in and out at the correct operator’s validator (as travel between the regions using pay as you go is not currently possible).
• Best value is measured against the closest equivalent non-PAYG fares only (Anytime Day Single, Anytime Day Return/Saver Return and 7-Day Season ticket).
• Daily and weekly fare capping allows customers to make unlimited journeys within a set period of time and not be charged for additional journeys once the cap has been reached.
• Child access to pay as you go is something that TfW would like to rollout in the future. However, it would be contingent on further development work. Meanwhile, free concessionary travel and family or group offers are not in scope for our pay as you go offering. The latter position is aligned with that of most other pay as you go schemes nationwide

Merseyrail is explicitly mentioned in the above press release now that Chester is part of TfW's North Wales PAYG scheme (and has a pink/yellow validator pair like Bidston as seen in this post).

 

[positron]

Also they've opened up the Railcard pilot and it works in both south Wales and north Wales schemes. So it's even better value for money now.

Shame that Avanti aren't onboard yet. Crosscountry agreed down south so there was a slim chance.

 

[mattdickinson]

Also they've opened up the Railcard pilot and it works in both south Wales and north Wales schemes. So it's even better value for money now.

Shame that Avanti aren't onboard yet. Crosscountry agreed down south so there was a slim chance.

The issue with Avanti may be that eventually they will run through many different areas of contactless acceptance (London and the South East, West Midlands, Greater Manchester and possibly Liverpool) as well as TfW

 

[Farigiraf]

TfW introduced PAYG in South Wales in 2024, with the North Wales scheme only starting a few months ago. They've already implemented the ability to add railcards to contactless PAYG.

In comparison, TfL introduced contactless PAYG in 2014, with the first Contactless-only (no Oyster) station, Brookmans Park, being introduced in 2019. Railcards still can't be added to bank card PAYG, despite the existence of an established PAYG account system in TfL Go. There's no indication of it being introduced anytime soon.

What's with the disparity? The Oval PAYG zone of course covers many more stations than these TfW schemes do, but the underlying system seems to be similar enough, and Ovalised fares do already exist, you just need to reduce them by 33%.

 

[positron]

I suspect it's entirely down to the back end. I think TfL use a completely different system, where they probably are having to bolt on discounts.

Whereas TfWs was designed to handle multi-modal multi operator Railcard discounted ticketing from day 1. Interestingly I believe the back office TfW use is the same back office as Merseyrail/travel.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

TfW introduced PAYG in South Wales in 2024, with the North Wales scheme only starting a few months ago. They've already implemented the ability to add railcards to contactless PAYG.

Railcards still not accepted for PAYG, south or north, according to the TfW web page.

• You can’t use a railcard or Concessionary Travel Card for pay as you go.

How will you be able to register a railcard for PAYG?

 

[positron]

Railcards still not accepted for PAYG, south or north, according to the TfW web page.


How will you be able to register a railcard for PAYG?

Railcards | Transport for Wales

Transport for Wales | Buy Cheap Train Tickets and Check Train Times

tfw.wales

We’re running an open pilot that lets you use the following Railcards with pay as you go:

16-17 Saver Railcard

16-25 Railcard

26-30 Railcard

Disabled Persons Railcard

Veterans Railcard

Senior Railcard

We’ll compare the pay as you go fare against the equivalent non-pay as you go fare with your Railcard discount applied. We’ll then charge you whichever fare is cheapest.

Probably just not updated that page yet. It's quite easy to add, just a bit in the PAYG section of the app where you enter the number on your Railcard and then it magically does it all in the background.