TfW names a Class 197 unit "Penarth Pier"

[XFeed]

It may not get to Penarth but will get a lot nearer to it than 001 or 004 will get to their namesakes (Philadelphia Robin and Vancouver Red Dragon)!

There is a chance that both units at some point may get to within 100 yards of their namesakes while at Wrexham General during the regular visits of the owners to Wrexham FC with both locations adjacent to each other

 

[Mikey C]

A bit odd to name a Class 197 Penarth Pier, as it will go nowhere near the Penarth branch.

My thoughts too, seeing that the line is operated by 756s.

It would entirely make sense to name a 756 after Penarth Pier or Whitmore Bay etc

 

[tfw756rider]

They also have internal QR coded info panels by the doors with information about the naming.

Pier Penarth/Penarth Pier | Transport for Wales

Transport for Wales | Buy Cheap Train Tickets and Check Train Times

tfw.wales

View attachment 212285

I saw the Happy Valley one onboard 197007 the other day and took a photo of it but didn't get round to posting it.

 

[SWML9102]

There is a chance that both units at some point may get to within 100 yards of their namesakes while at Wrexham General during the regular visits of the owners to Wrexham FC with both locations adjacent to each other

Thank you for educating me. Even Google struggled a bit with this!

 

[Envoy]

They should also name these trains after places in England served by TFW. How about Ludlow Castle & Stokesay Castle for starters?

 

[sh24]

Bemused as to how naming a 197 after a local Welsh landmark is "infantilising" the railway. It certainly won't have cost much to do, likely just a small vinyl.

Some forum members have forgotten 43002 "Top of the Pops". That had many swooning and clutching at their pearls in the 1980's.

 

[sd0733]

They should also name these trains after places in England served by TFW. How about Ludlow Castle & Stokesay Castle for starters?

Winners | Transport for Wales

Transport for Wales | Buy Cheap Train Tickets and Check Train Times

tfw.wales

That appears to be a fair chunk of the planned names, 107 there if my counting is right although some of the names repeat.

 

[The Welsh Fish]

This is 197009, in Chester Carriage Sidings (edit: on the 24th September), showing the bilingual Welsh / English name Pier Penarth / Penarth Pier, with the subtext Enywyd gan / Named by Ava, Creigiau Primary School.

Quite why Transport For Wales didn't do it properly and write Enywyd gan / Named by Ava, Ysgol Gynradd Creigiau Primary School, I couldn't say.

View attachment 212242

View attachment 212243

A good few 197s have been newly named, i believe that one, 111, 114, 118, and 123. More to come hopefully!

 

[tfw756rider]

A good few 197s have been newly named, i believe that one, 111, 114, 118, and 123. More to come hopefully!

With what names?

 

[childwallblues]

strange choice of unit as it is unlikely ever to get to Penarth.

 

[Peter Sarf]

strange choice of unit as it is unlikely ever to get to Penarth.

All discussed upthread. Basically never been a reason to name trains after a place they actually go to. Best example I can now think of is "North Star" !. Perhaps even "Odin", "Thor" & "Cyclops" as I have never encountered them.
Edit - "Orion" and "Vulcan" could be interesting.

I reckon better to name them after places people might be tempted to go to (ideally by rail).

 

[Gloster]

As for pier names. I suppose many piers might not be in areas served by TfW but 197s get near enough. I am showing my ignorance but did the GWR ONLY name Castle class steam engines after castles that were really close to GWR lines (as close as Penarth is to Cardiff).

Generally the Castle names were of castles in the GWR/WR’s general area, but there were a few exceptions: Corfe and Denbigh (all four of the latter) come to mind. However, some of the castles were fairly obscure. Keeping to the company’s area, if broadly interpreted, seems to have been possible with most classes, but (as a recent thread discussed) some of the Hall class names came from a long way away.

 

[TheWierdOne]

All discussed upthread. Basically never been a reason to name trains after a place they actually go to. Best example I can now think of is "North Star" !. Perhaps even "Odin", "Thor" & "Cyclops" as I have never encountered them.

I reckon better to name them after places people might be tempted to go to (ideally by rail).

Never encountered Odin? I see him regularly down the local. Eccentric bloke, loves tramping in for some mead with a pair of ravens on his shoulders. He’s only got one eye after some hoohah with a fountain, and there was nasty business with a tree he doesn’t like to mention. Nice enough chap though, buys his round.

 

[notyolosmh]

197111 now carries the name 'Segontiwm'

Saw at Cardiff Central a couple mins ago on 1V40 Manchester Piccadilly - Milford Haven (paired with 197002)

 

[The Welsh Fish]

With what names?

114 Y Porthmon, 111 Segontiwm, unsure about the rest

 

[Envoy]

Segontiwm - really, this is getting beyond a joke. It refers to the Roman fort of Segontium in what is now Caernarfon.

"Segontium was founded by Agricola in AD77 after he brutally suppressed a rebellion by the native tribe known as the Ordovices. Designed to hold a 1,000-strong regiment of auxiliary infantrymen, it was linked by Roman roads to the main legionary bases at Chester and Caerleon."

Segontium Roman Fort | Cadw

Roman stronghold that passed into Welsh legendEstablished nearly two millennia ago, this strategically-placed fort at the edge of the Roman Empire bustled with life for more than three hundred years.Segontium was founded by Agricola in AD77 after he brutally suppressed a rebellion by the native...

cadw.gov.wales

 

[mmh]

It doesn't even work in Welsh - 'iw' would properly be pronounced very differently to how they're wanting it to be. It's not English, and it doesn't need translating!

Disclaimer: I am Welsh and a staunch proponent of the Welsh language. However, this is silly.

 

[The Welsh Fish]

197111 is Segontiwm, 197114 is Y Porthmon, 197118 is Afanc and 197123 is Afon Dyfrdwy

 

[Rhydgaled]

I quite agree, surely it should just have been called ‘Castell Caeriw / Carew Castle’. The child who submitted it could still have been credited.

Absolutely; I wouldn't have a problem with that.

Bemused as to how naming a 197 after a local Welsh landmark is "infantilising" the railway. It certainly won't have cost much to do, likely just a small vinyl.

Yes, I think the 'nameplates' on the 197s are just vinyls. However, that unit (197049) is not simply named ‘Castell Caeriw / Carew Castle’. What the vinyls on that unit actually say, I would argue, is a misuse of language and suggests that someone didn't understand either what they were supposed to be naming or the difference between 4472 'Flying Scotsman' and named trains such as 'The Flying Scotsman'.

 

[BayPaul]

Absolutely; I wouldn't have a problem with that.


Yes, I think the 'nameplates' on the 197s are just vinyls. However, that unit (197049) is not simply named ‘Castell Caeriw / Carew Castle’. What the vinyls on that unit actually say, I would argue, is a misuse of language and suggests that someone didn't understand either what they were supposed to be naming or the difference between 4472 'Flying Scotsman' and named trains such as 'The Flying Scotsman'.

Can you give more information? Am I right in thinking that the English language version is "Carew Castle Express"? Is your issue the inclusion of the word Express, or the Weslsh translation? For me that sounds like a good name for a train (in English), personally I think including an additional word with some movement in it makes a better name for a vehicle, rather than just the place name itself. This is common in the naming of ships - "Normandie Express", "Dublin Swift" for example.

 

[800001]

This is the only problem I have with the name.

A unit that will ostensibly operate in North and Mid Wales named after a pier in South Wales strikes me as a bit strange.

So by a naming it and having QR codes about the name, then people further a field may learn about it and decide to go visit.

Good publicity.

 

[tfw756rider]

This is the only problem I have with the name.

A unit that will ostensibly operate in North and Mid Wales named after a pier in South Wales strikes me as a bit strange.

North Wales yes, Mid Wales no (unless 197s get cleared on the Heart of Wales line to Llandrindod, and/or 197009 gets fitted with ETCS equipment to be able to go onto the Cambrian).

 

[Rhydgaled]

North Wales yes, Mid Wales no (unless 197s get cleared on the Heart of Wales line to Llandrindod, and/or 197009 gets fitted with ETCS equipment to be able to go onto the Cambrian).

The 197s do also run quite a few services in south Wales, just not on the Penarth branch.

Can you give more information? Am I right in thinking that the English language version is "Carew Castle Express"? Is your issue the inclusion of the word Express, or the Weslsh translation? For me that sounds like a good name for a train (in English), personally I think including an additional word with some movement in it makes a better name for a vehicle, rather than just the place name itself. This is common in the naming of ships - "Normandie Express", "Dublin Swift" for example.

Although my forum username is a Welsh word, I'm no expert on the language. Thus, the issue I have is indeed the inclusion of the word 'Express' on 197049's (probably vinyl) nameplates (the full name applied to the unit is "Castell Caeriw Cyflym/Carew Castle Express", which I think makes it the longest name of any 197 because the other three-word names (the Wrexham FC pair) are not fully bilingual). As I keep saying, 'Carew Castle' (with Welsh translation) would be fine. However (to me at least) the longer name is wrong on at least 3 levels:

1. TfW have used the name on a 'nameplate' rather than a 'headboard' for a named service (such a shame that the ATW 'Y Gerallt Gymro' headboard for the Holyhead-Cardiff premier service got lost/stolen)
2. 'Express' (at least in the context of bus and rail services) generally implies a service with fewer intermediate stops (or none at all) - I think the nearest station to Carew is Lamphey, which is a minor intermediate station (not likely to be a call on an express service - indeed the present day GWR 'Pembroke Coast Express' doesn't call there) (I also object when the word 'direct' is used to mean a 'through service' via a rather indirect route)
3. The class 197s are a rather 'run-of-the-mill' design, which TfW have argued is designed to minimise dwell times and accelerate quickly away from each stop, in order to improve punctuality "on services with frequent stops in major cities" - that sounds like they are describing a metro service rather than an express. (I believe the "Dublin Swift" is both a 'fast ferry' (catamaran) (rather than a traditional (larger and slower) ferry) and a branding for the service it operates - that name is therefore appropriate in that context).

 

[Peter Sarf]

The 197s do also run quite a few services in south Wales, just not on the Penarth branch.


Although my forum username is a Welsh word, I'm no expert on the language. Thus, the issue I have is indeed the inclusion of the word 'Express' on 197049's (probably vinyl) nameplates (the full name applied to the unit is "Castell Caeriw Cyflym/Carew Castle Express", which I think makes it the longest name of any 197 because the other three-word names (the Wrexham FC pair) are not fully bilingual). As I keep saying, 'Carew Castle' (with Welsh translation) would be fine. However (to me at least) the longer name is wrong on at least 3 levels:

1. TfW have used the name on a 'nameplate' rather than a 'headboard' for a named service (such a shame that the ATW 'Y Gerallt Gymro' headboard for the Holyhead-Cardiff premier service got lost/stolen)
2. 'Express' (at least in the context of bus and rail services) generally implies a service with fewer intermediate stops (or none at all) - I think the nearest station to Carew is Lamphey, which is a minor intermediate station (not likely to be a call on an express service - indeed the present day GWR 'Pembroke Coast Express' doesn't call there) (I also object when the word 'direct' is used to mean a 'through service' via a rather indirect route)
3. The class 197s are a rather 'run-of-the-mill' design, which TfW have argued is designed to minimise dwell times and accelerate quickly away from each stop, in order to improve punctuality "on services with frequent stops in major cities" - that sounds like they are describing a metro service rather than an express. (I believe the "Dublin Swift" is both a 'fast ferry' (catamaran) (rather than a traditional (larger and slower) ferry) and a branding for the service it operates - that name is therefore appropriate in that context).

You are reminding me that something like Carew Castle Express on the side of a train would normally indicate this service is fast to Carew Castle. Dropping the word "Express" would make it a little less likely someone would think the name is a destination.

All of a sudden I am worrying that giving trains/units names that are plausible destinations is risky now that many trains have electronic displays on their sides showing actual destinations.

 

[Roylang]

All of a sudden I am worrying that giving trains/units names that are plausible destinations is risky now that many trains have electronic displays on their sides showing actual destinations.

But the old coach boards giving destinations never got confused with loco nameplates that I have heard, and that despite them looking more like a loco nameplate than modern day destination displays.

I don’t think you need worry.

Roy