TfW Do you need a valid Ticket inside the barriers, or just when you board a train?

[J663738]

I had a heated argument with a 'Revenue enforcement officer' at Cardiff Central last week.
Myself a friend had travelled back from London and he was intending to get a taxi at Cardiff Central to Barry. However, it was a Saturday afternoon and the station was mobbed at Cardiff, so we decided to both travel by train to Penarth (where I live) and I would drive him to Barry.
There was a Penarth train due in a few minutes and I went down to the self service ticket machines to buy a ticket for him, leaving my friend to look after the luggage on the platform.
Immediately when I started to use the use the machine which was inside the barriers, the Enforcement chap came over asked what I was doing, buying a ticket there?
I told him, yes I am buying a ticket for onward travel, he started shouting that I was not allowed to buy a ticket inside the barriers. I ignored him and continued as he was shouting at me less than a metre away in a very confrontational way. When I got the tickets and walked away saying the train was now at the platform, he threatened to get the police as I had bought a ticket inside the barriers. I did eventually show one of his colleagues the London-Penarth ticket and said the chap needs to calm down a bit and stop shouting at people.
Both just caught the Penarth train as the doors were closing but the train was so busy, the tickets were not even checked! So much for doing the right thing.

My question is, was the Enforcement officer right, that I could not buy a ticket from machines inside the barrier, if so, why on earth are they there in the first place.? and can staff stop you inside a railway station and demand to see your ticket, even though you are not even on a train?

 

[jfollows]

If there are ticket machines located inside the barrier, and if you’ve arrived there on another valid ticket, then I see no reason why you can’t buy a ticket for onward travel from the machine.
You did the right thing.
Presumably the shouty chap thinks he owns the ticket machines and gets to decide who uses them and for what purpose.

But appropriate staff can ask to see your ticket at a station, yes.

 

[Elecman]

Complain to TfW as you arrived with valid tickets and we’re buying onward tickets before travelling

 

[Mcr Warrior]

...caught the Penarth train as the doors were closing but the train was so busy, the tickets were not even checked! So much for doing the right thing.

What tickets were held on arrival from London? One from London->Cardiff Central & the other (for yourself) from London->Penarth?

 

[AdamWW]

I had a heated argument with a 'Revenue enforcement officer' at Cardiff Central last week.
Myself a friend had travelled back from London and he was intending to get a taxi at Cardiff Central to Barry. However, it was a Saturday afternoon and the station was mobbed at Cardiff, so we decided to both travel by train to Penarth (where I live) and I would drive him to Barry.
There was a Penarth train due in a few minutes and I went down to the self service ticket machines to buy a ticket for him, leaving my friend to look after the luggage on the platform.
Immediately when I started to use the use the machine which was inside the barriers, the Enforcement chap came over asked what I was doing, buying a ticket there?
I told him, yes I am buying a ticket for onward travel, he started shouting that I was not allowed to buy a ticket inside the barriers. I ignored him and continued as he was shouting at me less than a metre away in a very confrontational way. When I got the tickets and walked away saying the train was now at the platform, he threatened to get the police as I had bought a ticket inside the barriers. I did eventually show one of his colleagues the London-Penarth ticket and said the chap needs to calm down a bit and stop shouting at people.
Both just caught the Penarth train as the doors were closing but the train was so busy, the tickets were not even checked! So much for doing the right thing.

My question is, was the Enforcement officer right, that I could not buy a ticket from machines inside the barrier, if so, why on earth are they there in the first place.? and can staff stop you inside a railway station and demand to see your ticket, even though you are not even on a train?

Does seem a bit odd, doesn't it? As you say, what are the machines for if not to buy tickets from?

If they're the ones I think they are, they replaced the ticket window that used to be behind the barriers and are presumably for people arriving (legitimately) without tickets.

Was this last Saturday. when there was a match on at the stadium?

Possibly they had people manually dealing with those arriving without tickets, weren't intending the machines to be used and the officer thought you were attempting to subvert the system?

Not that I'd say it justifies such behaviour.

I'd be curious to know what offence he thought you had committed.

 

[Starmill]

Sounds like someone making up any old nonsense just so they can have a go at someone to me. This isn't common, but the railway industry is better off without these kind of staff.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 31 May 2025 ==

Complain to TfW as you arrived with valid tickets and we’re buying onward tickets before travelling

What tickets were held on arrival from London? One from London->Cardiff Central & the other (for yourself) from London->Penarth?

I'd say what tickets were held or if they had any doesn't come into it given there was no request to show a ticket.

 

[AlterEgo]

Next time just buy online.

 

[StarCrossing]

It would be cheaper to use contactless, though that would still require a trip to the gates and a potential interrogation!

 

[J663738]

What tickets were held on arrival from London? One from London->Cardiff Central & the other (for yourself) from London->Penarth?

Yes, he has mobility issues, hence why I ran down to buy his.

I suspect the revenue protection are on some sort of commission, and use intimidation tactics, I was half expecting to be grabbed but he didn't, just stood uncomfortably close, looking at what I was selecting on the self service machine, while telling me I shouldn't be using it.

Maybe the answer is to wear those huge headphones and just ignore people around you!

 

[trainophile]

It must happen all the time, people's plans changing while they are en route, necessitating buying a further ticket to continue travelling by train. It sounds to me like he totally misunderstood the situation, and rather than back tracking/apologising, decided to become heavy handed to save his own face.

Would have made an interesting test case in the courts, but naturally neither you nor your friend would want to have the hassle of that.

 

[John R]

There was a major rugby match on in Cardiff last Saturday, and the revenue protection procedure for match days would be very different to normal.

It would probably have helped if you explained straight away, rather than “eventually”, that you had a valid ticket for your journey, as it would be highly unusual for someone with a valid ticket for their journey to be buying another one.

 

[yorkie]

Next time just buy online.

Indeed; unlike certain train companies and their representatives, we would value your custom @Jantra, if you'd like to buy from our ticketing site. We won't invent rules that don't exist, either!


== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 31 May 2025 ==

I had a heated argument with a 'Revenue enforcement officer' at Cardiff Central last week.
Myself a friend had travelled back from London and he was intending to get a taxi at Cardiff Central to Barry. However, it was a Saturday afternoon and the station was mobbed at Cardiff, so we decided to both travel by train to Penarth (where I live) and I would drive him to Barry.
There was a Penarth train due in a few minutes and I went down to the self service ticket machines to buy a ticket for him, leaving my friend to look after the luggage on the platform.
Immediately when I started to use the use the machine which was inside the barriers, the Enforcement chap came over asked what I was doing, buying a ticket there?
I told him, yes I am buying a ticket for onward travel, he started shouting that I was not allowed to buy a ticket inside the barriers. I ignored him and continued as he was shouting at me less than a metre away in a very confrontational way. When I got the tickets and walked away saying the train was now at the platform, he threatened to get the police as I had bought a ticket inside the barriers. I did eventually show one of his colleagues the London-Penarth ticket and said the chap needs to calm down a bit and stop shouting at people.
Both just caught the Penarth train as the doors were closing but the train was so busy, the tickets were not even checked! So much for doing the right thing.

My question is, was the Enforcement officer right, that I could not buy a ticket from machines inside the barrier, if so, why on earth are they there in the first place.? and can staff stop you inside a railway station and demand to see your ticket, even though you are not even on a train?

I would encourage you to write to TfW.

Keep the message clear, and concise, breaking it into paragraphs of suitable lengths (with paragraph breaks).

If you don't get a good response, feel free to send me a message with the TfW reference number and I can see if I can ask a contact to get it escalated for you.

 

[J663738]

If there are ticket machines located inside the barrier, and if you’ve arrived there on another valid ticket, then I see no reason why you can’t buy a ticket for onward travel from the machine.
You did the right thing.
Presumably the shouty chap thinks he owns the ticket machines and gets to decide who uses them and for what purpose.

But appropriate staff can ask to see your ticket at a station, yes.

This is what I really wanted to know, at what point if you don't have a valid ticket can you be fined/prosecuted?
Some stations have barriers (not even 24/7), but others don't and you must enter the platform to buy a ticket from a self service machine, so you are on the platform without a ticket.
I assumed it was actually being on a train when bye-law 18(1) and 18(2) come into effect, not just being on a platform.

 

[AlterEgo]

This is what I really wanted to know, at what point if you don't have a valid ticket can you be fined/prosecuted?
Some stations have barriers (not even 24/7), but others don't and you must enter the platform to buy a ticket from a self service machine, so you are on the platform without a ticket.
I assumed it was actually being on a train when bye-law 18(1) and 18(2) come into effect, not just being on a platform.

Under the bylaws that is correct. Bylaw 17 involves compulsory ticket areas and there is no penalty attached to that - you may only be asked to leave the premises.