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TfW Class 67+Mk4 sets: trip planning/experiences, diagram updates etc

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LowLevel

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67025 and HD06 have failed in platform 13 at Manchester Piccadilly and are just about starting to destroy the service around the North West.
 

MikePJ

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I've just seen the TfW Rail Ltd Board minutes for August 2025 which includes the following quote:

Mk 4 life extension plans: AC to assess viability of acquiring additional units to support capacity and reliability of services [Action – AC to provide one page document on Mk 4 life extension, improvements and future plans]
AC in this context is Alexia Course, the Chief Commerical Officer of TfW.
 

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Topological

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Left 1 minute after your post :lol:
Well done to @LowLevel for getting the train moving.

However, even a couple of minutes in Platform 13 is enough to mess things up. I think it might be time for the appropriate people to lean on TfW to use a different train for the via Warrington route retention and then put the 06:27 into Platform 10 like the others.

It is interesting to see TfW looking at more sets. How many sets are needed to run 5 diagrams? 7 seem to manage 3 or 4.
 

37052 xb mr

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Well done to @LowLevel for getting the train moving.

However, even a couple of minutes in Platform 13 is enough to mess things up. I think it might be time for the appropriate people to lean on TfW to use a different train for the via Warrington route retention and then put the 06:27 into Platform 10 like the others.

It is interesting to see TfW looking at more sets. How many sets are needed to run 5 diagrams? 7 seem to manage 3 or 4.
The 5 sets in service
Worked 5 full diagrams yesterday !
And should have done today
Turns out, nothing wrong with
67025 but hey ho ;)
 

Topological

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The 5 sets in service
Worked 5 full diagrams yesterday !
And should have done today
Turns out, nothing wrong with
67025 but hey ho ;)
I did not check yesterday as I was not travelling. I just knew that Monday and Tuesday were not fully covered.

Really good to know that Wednesday was fully covered. Hope we can see that every day.
 

craigybagel

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Well done to @LowLevel for getting the train moving.

However, even a couple of minutes in Platform 13 is enough to mess things up. I think it might be time for the appropriate people to lean on TfW to use a different train for the via Warrington route retention and then put the 06:27 into Platform 10 like the others.

It is interesting to see TfW looking at more sets. How many sets are needed to run 5 diagrams? 7 seem to manage 3 or 4.
There is no other train that can do it - there is only one ECS a day northbound between Crewe and Manchester.

To the best of my knowledge, this is the first time a 67/MKIV set has failed along the Castlefield corridor.
 

Topological

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There is no other train that can do it - there is only one ECS a day northbound between Crewe and Manchester.

To the best of my knowledge, this is the first time a 67/MKIV set has failed along the Castlefield corridor.
One idea might be to put the Mk4 on 1V32 instead and then that arrives into Cardiff as a peak train. There might be some richer commuters who would like a breakfast.

The 197s that presently start in Crewe as 1V32 can do 1V33 instead, providing route retention as needed.

Requires a bit of messing about with 197s around Cardiff because 1V32 is currently a Milford Haven train while 1V33 terminates at Cardiff, but should be doable.
 

craigybagel

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One idea might be to put the Mk4 on 1V32 instead and then that arrives into Cardiff as a peak train. There might be some richer commuters who would like a breakfast.

The 197s that presently start in Crewe as 1V32 can do 1V33 instead, providing route retention as needed.

Requires a bit of messing about with 197s around Cardiff because 1V32 is currently a Milford Haven train while 1V33 terminates at Cardiff, but should be doable.
As well as having to rewrite the timetable and break up the pattern of alternating 67/197 services, it would also mean the first arrival into Cardiff from Manchester on a service with 1st class wouldn't be until nearly 12.

It seems like a lot of trouble just because on one occasion on this diagram the 67 broke down in a rather unfortunate location. Especially when 197s aren't exactly renowned for their reliability either.
 

sd0733

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Anyone have the diagrams for this weekend, looking to get the dining in.
Currently Looking unlikely as it stands that anything will be running on the Marches between Hereford and Newport tomorrow.
There were 5 planned with an extra Holyhead to Cardiff round trip.
 

Topological

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Currently Looking unlikely as it stands that anything will be running on the Marches between Hereford and Newport tomorrow.
There were 5 planned with an extra Holyhead to Cardiff round trip.
I note RTT showing nothing between Cardiff and Hereford. Only the freight shows for tomorrow. Presumably means P coding of the TfW service.

Does anyone know how bad the situation is? I am supposed to be travelling from Pontypool to Manchester Sunday and if the line is closed then that makes it an awkward one to work around. When it was just Hereford to Shrewsbury closed then Pontypool to Newport and then via Birmingham worked.
 

BillStampy

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Does anyone know how bad the situation is? I am supposed to be travelling from Pontypool to Manchester Sunday and if the line is closed then that makes it an awkward one to work around. When it was just Hereford to Shrewsbury closed then Pontypool to Newport and then via Birmingham worked.
Not sure how bad it is, but between Newport and Cwmbran, two signal berths are taken up by "POOL" and one with "5MPH", which isn't great. Gloucester to Bristol's currently shut too, so going around Birmingham for any Marches passengers is currently not an option either.
 

Anonymous10

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Not sure how bad it is, but between Newport and Cwmbran, two signal berths are taken up by "POOL" and one with "5MPH", which isn't great. Gloucester to Bristol's currently shut too, so going around Birmingham for any Marches passengers is currently not an option either.
Making it a via reading?
 

Topological

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Not sure how bad it is, but between Newport and Cwmbran, two signal berths are taken up by "POOL" and one with "5MPH", which isn't great. Gloucester to Bristol's currently shut too, so going around Birmingham for any Marches passengers is currently not an option either.
Thanks.

I always forget that as far as Cwmbran is on sites like Traksy. I agree it does not look good.

The M5 was horrible this evening around Bristol, and the M4 across the bridge was not great either. From Newport onwards was not so bad. Suspect I will be back on the motorway on Sunday and getting a refund for the train.

In past years the Marches have been out of action for days, if not weeks, but normally that was between Hereford and Shrewsbury.

Hopefully this will allow some time to get the Mk4s working for when the line does reopen.
 
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Thanks.

I always forget that as far as Cwmbran is on sites like Traksy. I agree it does not look good.

The M5 was horrible this evening around Bristol, and the M4 across the bridge was not great either. From Newport onwards was not so bad. Suspect I will be back on the motorway on Sunday and getting a refund for the train.

In past years the Marches have been out of action for days, if not weeks, but normally that was between Hereford and Shrewsbury.

Hopefully this will allow some time to get the Mk4s working for when the line does reopen.
Usually the 67s don't fair so well after they've been stood idle
 

37052 xb mr

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Thanks.

I always forget that as far as Cwmbran is on sites like Traksy. I agree it does not look good.

The M5 was horrible this evening around Bristol, and the M4 across the bridge was not great either. From Newport onwards was not so bad. Suspect I will be back on the motorway on Sunday and getting a refund for the train.

In past years the Marches have been out of action for days, if not weeks, but normally that was between Hereford and Shrewsbury.

Hopefully this will allow some time to get the Mk4s working for when the line does reopen.
Not sure how many you want working ?

5 sets are in service &
Bar 1V33 mishap at Piccadilly yesterday, which 67025 Set HD06
Later resumed the diagram on 1W61, all 5 diagrams have been covered since Wednesday,
4 sets on Tuesday.
1 set is on exam
1 Set, HD03 out with wheel set issues.
If the line wasn’t blocked
5 sets would have worked tomorrow.
 

Topological

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Not sure how many you want working ?

5 sets are in service &
Bar 1V33 mishap at Piccadilly yesterday, which 67025 Set HD06
Later resumed the diagram on 1W61, all 5 diagrams have been covered since Wednesday,
4 sets on Tuesday.
1 set is on exam
1 Set, HD03 out with wheel set issues.
If the line wasn’t blocked
5 sets would have worked tomorrow.
No one wants the Mk4s to fail. The reality is that they do regularly.

There are 7 sets and 5 diagrams. Others can judge how many days are acceptable to have less than 5 covered.

Like many of the travelling public, I want a train to turn up on time and ideally with the facilities/capacity advertised. So how many do I want working - as many as possible.
 

BillStampy

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There are 7 sets and 5 diagrams. Others can judge how many days are acceptable to have less than 5 covered.
Pratically there's only around 6 available at a time as once one comes off an exam, another goes on very shortly after. So leaves little room for any failures or scheduled maintenance.
 

sd0733

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Pratically there's only around 6 available at a time as once one comes off an exam, another goes on very shortly after. So leaves little room for any failures or scheduled maintenance.
At this time of year a lot of the time its been one on exam and one on tyre turning so effectively 5 from 5, this also means that the 5 serviceable sets run out of exam miles quicker as they're never spare.

There's also the Leominster incident which although a reformed rake is back, has impacted things quite a lot, using resources to get HD02 back out but also losing half of HD08, which should have been out around now but will now be around 10 months yet, this set is cover for the heavy overhaul programme which has also subsequently been knocked back by a similar amount of time awaiting HD08. There's also been animal strikes which knocked HD05 out for a long period, tree strikes which damaged a few sets and other incidents like HD03s severe wheel damage which, whilst they're back (HD03 should be back mid week) they've all impacted maintenance and exam schedules by losing sets for relatively long periods.
Loads of work has gone into keeping availability good and for quite a few periods, diagram coverage has been in excess of 90%. Obviously as a caveat there's been a bit of a wobble the last few weeks prior to this week due in the most part to some of the above issues. Compared to other small fleets, such as AT or 230s they generally hold up pretty well. The big difference is its far more obvious when a 2 car 197 rolls in vice a Mk4 than a 2 car 150 vice an Active Travel unit so is far more noticeable and affects far more people.

Comparing them to the 197/1 fleet which has 22 diagrams for a 26 strong fleet but generally only manage cover around 15-17 diagrams a day, a fleet thats causing shortforms its certainly not restricted to Mk4s.
 

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