TfW class 398 Stadler Citylink tram trains

[chrisjo]

Lots of different 398s running up and down the 3 valleys from Taffs Well depot all weekend, all running basically to time as far as I can see

Out this weekend: 022, 023, 024, 028, 029, 031

 

[Peter Sarf]

I often wonder how people manage without toilets on busses.

On a night and weekend I know people who travel an hour on a bus after a day drinking rather than getting the train due to cost.

Don't see people urinating on the bus.

Ever been upstairs on a bus and seen a bottle with a large screw top opening (for example lucozade or chocomilk) rolling around with the wrong colour liquid in ?.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Jun 2026 ==

It's a criminal offence and there's CCTV all over the trains and platforms. And if the problem is going to be anywhere near as bad as people claim it's going to be it's in TFWs interest to have zero tolerance to it.

If someone wants to go badly enough they are going to do it somewhere inappropriate if there is no alternative.

Anyway, I am sure most of us will manage one way or another without loos on trains. But I will miss them and it will modify my journey plans (car looking more likely) even if I have not been drinking. But how significant the lack of loos will be for the ridership figures - I doubt unbearable. And frequency will be a more important benefit.

 

[Caaardiff]

I often wonder how people manage without toilets on busses.

On a night and weekend I know people who travel an hour on a bus after a day drinking rather than getting the train due to cost.

Don't see people urinating on the bus.

Same with taxis. You'd think most human beings would have the sense to use a toilet at the pub or station before they board the train. It may take a bit of getting used to but it's not a new thing to the world.

But I will miss them and it will modify my journey plans (car looking more likely)

Cars don't have toilets....

You'd need to pull over at a service station/public toilet/pub/cafe etc if you needed to go. By that time the train could already be in the next station with a toilet.

 

[800001]

Ever been upstairs on a bus and seen a bottle with a large screw top opening (for example lucozade or chocomilk) rolling around with the wrong colour liquid in ?.

Never! And I travel on busses a lot!

 

[chargesmith]

Anyway, I am sure most of us will manage one way or another without loos on trains. But I will miss them and it will modify my journey plans (car looking more likely) even if I have not been drinking. But how significant the lack of loos will be for the ridership figures - I doubt unbearable. And frequency will be a more important benefit.

As someone who has bladder issues my top tips are to avoid alcohol and caffeine, and if you're taking in fluids to hydrate sip them rather than guzzle them.

I used to not be able to go 20/30 minutes without needing a loo break and life was very stressful because of it, but those tips from a urologist I was referred to effectively gave me my life back. It's not going to help everyone, but it will help someone.

 

[Daniel Boone]

Out this weekend: 022, 023, 024, 028, 029, 031

398016 out this morning.

Realtime Trains | 3Q10 0831 Taffs Well Depot to Aberdare | 08/06/2026

Real-time train running information for 3Q10 0831 departure from Taffs Well Depot to Aberdare on 08/06/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[chargesmith]

398016 out this morning.

Realtime Trains | 3Q10 0831 Taffs Well Depot to Aberdare | 08/06/2026

Real-time train running information for 3Q10 0831 departure from Taffs Well Depot to Aberdare on 08/06/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

By my count that's 8 different units that have been out in the last few days, there may have been more.

016, 019, 022, 023, 024, 028, 029, 031

 

[alm37]

By my count that's 8 different units that have been out in the last few days, there may have been more.

016, 019, 022, 023, 024, 028, 029, 031

Also 017 and 030 reported out on 3 and 4 June respectively - 10 in total out recently.

 

[trainspotter4]

Yeah, from my understanding it was 8 a few days ago until 016/023 recently so things are definitely looking up despite the scepticism. 10 units, with test runs daily now shows they definitely are getting close to service, nice to see. Whether people like it or not, the 150s won't last forever and this is what we got so they need to work.

 

[chargesmith]

Yeah, from my understanding it was 8 a few days ago until 016/023 recently so things are definitely looking up despite the scepticism. 10 units, with test runs daily now shows they definitely are getting close to service, nice to see. Whether people like it or not, the 150s won't last forever and this is what we got so they need to work.

According to RTT 021 is scheduled to run overnight to Merthyr and back so if it does that will take us to 11 units.

Will have to keep an eye out and see if any other units leave the depot in the next few days, but it seems TFW have quite a few operational units.

 

[MikePJ]

Looks like another set of tests to and from the Bay ran last night: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...000-2359?stp=WVS&show=non-passenger&order=wtt

 

[800001]

According to RTT 021 is scheduled to run overnight to Merthyr and back so if it does that will take us to 11 units.

Will have to keep an eye out and see if any other units leave the depot in the next few days, but it seems TFW have quite a few operational units.

A decent amount of units out working.

 

[The exile]

Don't see people urinating on the bus.

It’s not unknown though - the occasion I’m thinking of was at about 6.30 pm on a weekday as well. I’m not referring small child “accident” either.

 

[chargesmith]

I'm pretty sure the one in the car park at trefforest is in place now, saw them putting it in the other day

Yeah just seen it there myself, it's not open though (has temporary fencing around it) but they must be thinking it's not going to be long before the units are in service. Otherwise it would be like getting scaffolding on your house when you had no plans to have work done on your roof!

There's also one at the front of Pontypridd station but I couldn't see anything at Radyr.

 

[athro]

Perhaps you weren't looking!

 

[cambsy]

Where will the 756 Stadler Flirts work, once the Tram Trains start operating on the valley lines? I think the flirts are some of the best units operating on the network.

 

[Da142072]

Where will the 756 Stadler Flirts work, once the Tram Trains start operating on the valley lines? I think the flirts are some of the best units operating on the network.

Possibly going off topic as there is a separate thread for 231/756 units. Rhymney to Penarth and Barry Island/Bridgend via Rhoose, Coryton to Penarth (and possibly late trains on the Treherbert/Aberdare and Merthyr Routes)

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Where will the 756 Stadler Flirts work, once the Tram Trains start operating on the valley lines? I think the flirts are some of the best units operating on the network.

398
Merthyr/Aberdare/Treherbert - Cardiff Bay
Merthyr/Treherbert - Cardiff Central via Cathays
Aberdare - Cardiff Central via Fairwater
Future Cardiff Crossrail extensions (inc. Central-Bay)

756
Rhymney/Bargoed - Barry Island
Rhymney - Bridgend
Caerphilly/Coryton - Penarth

231
Ebbw Vale Town - Maesteg
Cheltenham - Cardiff Central

197
Ebbw Vale Town - Newport
Long distance hauls

 

[chargesmith]

Appears there was a multiple unit test run to Merthyr Tydfil last night (according to RTT).

Running in multiple is a known issue that has been confirmed by the TfW CEO in an interview to Green Signals (IIRC) and all test runs recently have been single unit runs, so hopefully this is an indication that they have a potential fix for that issue that they are trying out / validating.

 

[positron]

398
Merthyr/Aberdare/Treherbert - Cardiff Bay
Merthyr/Treherbert - Cardiff Central via Cathays
Aberdare - Cardiff Central via Fairwater
Future Cardiff Crossrail extensions (inc. Central-Bay)

756
Rhymney/Bargoed - Barry Island
Rhymney - Bridgend
Caerphilly/Coryton - Penarth

231
Ebbw Vale Town - Maesteg
Cheltenham - Cardiff Central

197
Ebbw Vale Town - Newport
Long distance hauls

Definitely off topic now but do we know for sure that there's not enough 231s for the Ebbw to Newport services?

 

[Peter Sarf]

Where will the 756 Stadler Flirts work, once the Tram Trains start operating on the valley lines? I think the flirts are some of the best units operating on the network.

To add some history (in case you did not know, apologies otherwise). The 756s and 231s will go to the routes they were originally ordered for. They were just a temporary solution for covering the 398s while the 398s and/or electrification was not ready. I agree, the Flirts certainly will be missed I fear.

I think they were (roughly or exactly - I cannot recall any difference) meant for the routes alluded to in the following post by @TT-ONR-NRN.

398
Merthyr/Aberdare/Treherbert - Cardiff Bay
Merthyr/Treherbert - Cardiff Central via Cathays
Aberdare - Cardiff Central via Fairwater
Future Cardiff Crossrail extensions (inc. Central-Bay)

756
Rhymney/Bargoed - Barry Island
Rhymney - Bridgend
Caerphilly/Coryton - Penarth

231
Ebbw Vale Town - Maesteg
Cheltenham - Cardiff Central

197
Ebbw Vale Town - Newport
Long distance hauls

Basically, once the 398s are n service, there will then be fewer 197s running just within South Wales than currently and the 150s will be retired. Which means enough 197s for Cambrian (although there is some who worry not enough).

More info to be found on the respective threads.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Jun 2026 ==


EDIT to add thre following

Flirts (231 & 756) here :-

Evening all,

Came across this on Twitter this morning from Transport for Wales: you shouldn't need a Twitter login to read the post and the article.

https://twitter.com/transport_wales/status/1419587294269296640

HTIOI,
Dave

There is a LOT there going back to 2021. Probably read it backwards from the latest posts if want to know more.

 

[chargesmith]

Basically, once the 398s are n service, there will then be fewer 197s running just within South Wales than currently and the 150s will be retired. Which means enough 197s for Cambrian (although there is some who worry not enough).

Given some of the aspirations that TfW have listed in the public domain recently I expect more stock will need to be ordered (especially 398s for the so called Cardiff Crossrail project as I think some of the lines they want to build will require some on street running (e.g. Bay to Cardiff East / Parkway via the Docks and Steelworks).

They will probably need more heavy rail stock too but that's a discussion for another thread.

 

[PompeyKeith]

I believe 398034 was delivered mid May and that leaves 398035 & 398036 left to go (come).

But I wonder/doubt if 398034 or (earlier numbers) are all accepted for service yet. I am pretty sure all 398s up to and including 398034 have been delivered, if not then it is only 398025 and 398032 (been at Asfordby) I am not aware of in South Wales.

Treherbert - I went there in May (Sunday 10/05/2026) around midday and there were no 398s there. There are sidings there and there were two 756/1s (Flirts) in them.

I should imagine TfW are a long way off being short of 398s unless training is a lot further advanced than it seems.

If you are wanting to see 398s then Taffs Well depot is the number one place to go, quite likely the only place.

I noted 398033 and 398034 at Taffs Well depot on 24/05/26

 

[VR494]

I noted 398033 and 398034 at Taffs Well depot on 24/05/26

Interesting to see they’ve not sent the newest addition out for a try yet. Probably waiting for some more modifications as they don’t meet the specs for lights etc.

The current situation at the moment is pretty much like musical chairs in the depot. It really is a case of try that one, what about that one then. That one’s not working either! And round and round you go. The training is so behind you wouldn’t believe it.

They’ve currently got drivers and guards training on the fault free runs to try and make the most of the time, the units are genuinely unable to compete no more than a couple of hours, sometimes minutes at most before the faults are back.

Some are now even leaving the depot with faults on them supposedly just to get some training hours in.

Unless one of these can get to the required hours of fault free running there’s no chance of getting them signed off. And then there’s the rest of the fleet to get through, before the late summer as quoted!

 

[southwales398]

018 left to do Merthyr-Abercynon runs and 029 to do Bay-Queen St runs

 

[trainspotter4]

Interesting to see they’ve not sent the newest addition out for a try yet. Probably waiting for some more modifications as they don’t meet the specs for lights etc.

The current situation at the moment is pretty much like musical chairs in the depot. It really is a case of try that one, what about that one then. That one’s not working either! And round and round you go. The training is so behind you wouldn’t believe it.

They’ve currently got drivers and guards training on the fault free runs to try and make the most of the time, the units are genuinely unable to compete no more than a couple of hours, sometimes minutes at most before the faults are back.

Some are now even leaving the depot with faults on them supposedly just to get some training hours in.

Unless one of these can get to the required hours of fault free running there’s no chance of getting them signed off. And then there’s the rest of the fleet to get through, before the late summer as quoted!

A quick question, you said that they are trying to botch this down to 1500 hours fault free running and that this resets if there is a fault, if what you said is right. How is there any chance of getting that time in before their supposedly starting service, it's physically impossible (and I get the answer is delay it, but clearly things are working because it's consistent test runs on units your seeing back to back, day after day)? Something doesn't add up.

 

[chargesmith]

018 left to do Merthyr-Abercynon runs and 029 to do Bay-Queen St runs

I think 018 is another unit that has not been out for a while so that brings us to 12 that have been out on test recently , or one third of the total fleet.

 

[800001]

I think 018 is another unit that has not been out for a while so that brings us to 12 that have been out on test recently , or one third of the total fleet.

So 1/3 of the fleet seen operational testing on the 'mainline', not bad, a nice steady sign of progression.

 

[MikePJ]

Some overnight test runs for 398s to Cardiff Bay have now appeared on RealTimeTrains for 9th-12th June https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...26-06-09/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Jun 2026 ==

I will try and check later today to see if there's any evidence of the wires having been energised - they were supposed to go live yesterday according to a notice posted at Queen Street (picture in the Metro Updates thread here https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/south-wales-metro-updates.117763/page-276#post-7792240). If the switchgear at Butetown is in the "closed" position (it was "open" last week) then that'll suggest that the wires are live.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Jun 2026 ==


Interestingly, this has been pushed back a week - the week of the 22nd's paths have been removed, and it seems that some 398 service paths have appeared starting on Saturday 27th and Sunday 28th June. https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...26-06-27/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

398 paths have been pushed back again in RealTimeTrains - originally the service paths for 398s appeared for the week of the 22nd June, then for the week of the 29th June. These latter ones were shown as "WTT" (working timetable) so are likely "default" paths loaded in. Anyway, they've now been cancelled and no 398 movements appear during the week of the 29th.

However, RTT is now showing that on 4th July there are "VAR" paths (variations) showing a 398 leaving Taffs Well Depot to run to Cardiff Central, then to Queen St and from there onto the Cardiff Bay - Pontypridd route. https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C04994/2026-07-04/detailed

That appears to be a single unit operating for that whole week. From 11th July, it appears two units may be in service, shown as "WTT".

 

[talltaf]

I've read on this forum (can't find post) that the depot can not hold the whole fleet, and that there is some sidings along the route that have been made suitable to stable so many each night.

The depot was purpose built specifically for the 398s and can hold all 36 of them, so wherever you read that is incorrect.

I’m not sure how it works sustainably wise to have a traincrew on a tram pottering up and down the Welsh valleys paid a combined total per annum of over £120,000 per crew (£50k TM and £70k driver) when proper trams see driver only and only paid circa £40k pa.

The alternative being to gate every station on the CVL (which would require gate staff to be operational) and/or significantly increasing the number of revenue staff to check people have bought before boarding or tapped in on PAYG; A far higher outlay and ongoing expense than the traditional driver and conductor setup.