Andrew*Debbie
Member
Today 1V94 the 0805 Holyhead to Cardiff train is (drumroll) . .. . 197010
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TfW 175 shortages
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Today 1V94 the 0805 Holyhead to Cardiff train is (drumroll) . .. . 197010
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RailUK Forums
Techniquest
Veteran Member
Where is that station? I don't recognise it at all.
It is a shame that 197010 hasn't made it this far south, I'd have absolutely broken into my backup funds (which are not too populated, and kept usually for a desperate situation) to go for a ride on one!
It is a shame that 197010 hasn't made it this far south, I'd have absolutely broken into my backup funds (which are not too populated, and kept usually for a desperate situation) to go for a ride on one!
timothyw9
Member
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- 21 Feb 2019
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- 59
- 197010 to Chester
- 150280 to Cardiff Central
SuperLuke2334
Established Member
Don't think they've been fully signed off to run south of Shrewsbury yet so it was inevitable.
Techniquest
Veteran Member
Indeed, but still an incredible shame. As it's a day off today I could have combined it with some adventuring. Soon enough it'll happen, I know, I guess patience is just running low at the moment. Not to mention that I'm absolutely getting the metaphorical 'itchy feet' and ready to use the train to go on an adventure again.
Which actually reminds me to have a look at my route from Victoria Coach Station to Paddington for my upcoming trip, I have a few options in mind and I don't fancy doing the boring and easy option of the Circle line from Victoria!
Andrew*Debbie
Member
Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch
Don't want to go to far off topic, but the 197 was a nice change from yesterday's 150.
We shall see what train shows up for my journey home.
Western 52
Established Member
How many 175s are out today? I've only seen 011 so far.
animationmilo
Member
- Joined
- 29 Mar 2011
- Messages
- 870
003 and 011, 006 was removed from service in Chester
Western 52
Established Member
So 2 out of 27 in service now, 7.4% availability!
The Prisoner
Member
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- 22 Aug 2012
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- 421
I've seen two heading over the Roodee viaduct towards Chester today - guessing on Holyhead to Chester depot runs for attention. From memory one around 10-11ish and one early afternoon. Apologies - can't see numbers from here.
MalaiseForever
Member
Is there any info/educated guesses on when we can expect to see the 175s back out in more usual numbers?
The 150s (whilst a lot better than nothing) are really not suitable on peak time services between Crewe and Manchester.
The 150s (whilst a lot better than nothing) are really not suitable on peak time services between Crewe and Manchester.
I wonder what the plan is if the 175s cant return to service in large numbers. Given the 197s are likely to be replacing them for a good while yet might their only option be to keep the 170s longer. At least then Maesteg would be covered as 175s are meant be going there by May.
JohnL93
Member
Very Handy
Yes, but it was on 21 January. Quite a different picture today, no doubt.
animationmilo
Member
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- 29 Mar 2011
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- 870
Completely different today, only 003 and 011 in service, 006 did 0512 cardiff to chester this morning
Western 52
Established Member
Most of the fleet out of service awaiting parts. Are these repairs the result of the safety inspections?
TT-ONR-NRN
Veteran Member
They're just about scraping by, not very pleasantly as 150s certainly aren't nice for several hours, but somehow I guess they're managing, so I'm wondering if they should just withdraw them altogether at this stage. I love them so it would be a massive shame for me personally, but selfish biases aside, if they're only getting two out anyway I reckon they should just give up at this stage. Perhaps cover for cancelled trains by temporarily suspending the pointless Liverpool Chester (Merseyrail is no longer and far more frequent) and bustituting Conwy Valley for now, and then aim to get 3-197s in service and on Marches services A.S.A.P.
This is what they have done already, neither are running currently.
I wouldn't say Liverpool to Chester is pointless either. Yes Merseyrail isnt much different time wise for those going from Chester to Liverpool. But most people on the TFW service aren't going end to end.
Recently numbers have increased quite significantly on the route with plenty travelling from Helsby and Frodsham into Liverpool and vice versa. Also plenty from mostly Chester/Wrexham and other North Wales stations travelling to South Parkway.
When Ive worked it most tickets Ive checked from Chester on this route seem to be to South Parkway for the airport, or to Runcorn with only a couple continuing to Liverpool. You then pick up a lot at Frodsham for Runcorn and Liverpool. The past few times I've worked the route in the day time it tends to be very well loaded by Frodsham.
For those just doing Chester to Lime St Merseyrail is a good substitute, but for those travelling to/from the intermediate stations eg Chester to South Parkway its a significantly longer journey using Merseyrail! When it finally goes back to 1tph I think it'll be quite a success.
Andy Pacer
Established Member
This is exactly where local knowledge and experiences is invaluable to the forum thanks for sharing and does match my own infrequent use of that route.
I was in the West Midlands yesterday and TfW were turning short at Wolverhampton again (completely understand why they're doing that), but it further outlines that they're not really "scraping by" as its far less attractive for the customer. As an aside to that, the hourly New St - Shrewsbury stoppers (which of course are the only direct link from New St) were busier than usual, one of the diagrams was a 2 car class 196 which was very busy both times I travelled on it.
Im thinking the same thing. They might as well just get rid of them at this stage or at least by the May TT when more 197s should be in service. Keep the 170s a bit longer if they can so at least Maesteg-Cheltenham can be covered. Is there any way some 158s can be freed up? Majority are on the Cambrian/Birmingham/Holyheads but even if they split some services at Shrewsbury and used 197s for the Northern section of the journey to Holyhead. Obviously they are already cutting them back to Wolverhampton and saving a couple of 158s there. The 158s are much more suitable replacements for the 175s than the 150s and 153s. Im not overly familiar with the Cambrian diagrams but im guessing no scope for cutting back there to free up 158s. Especially with Summer approaching.
Conwy Valley and Liverpool being suspended is only useful if the 197s can actually be used elsewhere i.e on the Marches!
TT-ONR-NRN
Veteran Member
Ohh I was forgetting the 170s have to get gone. They need the 175s for Maesteg Cheltenhams don’t they.
@Jez RE your last comment, Manchester Llandudno is not yet exclusively 197. I’ve seen there are some Sprinters and 175s still doing stuff.
@Jez RE your last comment, Manchester Llandudno is not yet exclusively 197. I’ve seen there are some Sprinters and 175s still doing stuff.
The intention appears to be that they will be returning to service as and when parts and labour can cover them, except for the ones which have gone off lease of course, and except for a small number which will go off lease in the coming months without being repaired.
Western 52
Established Member
Presumably they have to repair the ones that have had thermal incident damage for return to the leasing company? Or could they be insurance write offs?
Topological
Established Member
If we really have to accept the 150s on the Marches is there any way at all to ask Northern to arrange a service in the TFW slot from Piccadilly to Crewe? My understanding is that the 319s are still working sufficiently well to provide a couple of units with suitable lease extension (Assuming that there is no slack in other Northern fleets).
Retime the Crewe departure slightly and then it should all work. Hopefully the timetable could be worked to make any train going past Cardiff still make its slot at Newport. For the Cardiff terminators that is less important.
Another drastic option might be to cut to one train every two hours and then run those as doubles so that there was at least enough space on the ones that do run. Under that system some would still be MK4 so that might work. Since some are only starting at Cardiff anyway, Cardiff passengers have the Holyhead trains for the Marches, and options via Birmingham for the North West.
With summer coming 150s on their own are not going to work (If they do now) and it may well be time to look at more drastic solutions until the situation can be improved.
Retime the Crewe departure slightly and then it should all work. Hopefully the timetable could be worked to make any train going past Cardiff still make its slot at Newport. For the Cardiff terminators that is less important.
Another drastic option might be to cut to one train every two hours and then run those as doubles so that there was at least enough space on the ones that do run. Under that system some would still be MK4 so that might work. Since some are only starting at Cardiff anyway, Cardiff passengers have the Holyhead trains for the Marches, and options via Birmingham for the North West.
With summer coming 150s on their own are not going to work (If they do now) and it may well be time to look at more drastic solutions until the situation can be improved.
43096
On Moderation
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- 23 Nov 2015
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- 18,800
Where do you propose getting train crew from for this?
If TfW are accepting liability for it, they can simply return the trains as they are and pay liquidated damages. They may not be accepting the full cost however, so it could be subject to negotiation. If insurance cover on them does come into play, that could cover some of TfW's costs.
Topological
Established Member
I don't know how long it would take to find rotas that worked, was hoping it might be possible from the summer when the Cambrian needs its 158s back. I appreciate staffing is tight but I do not think it needs that many to run an additional train from Manchester to Crewe. Maybe it does, and if the overtime ban continues then I can see that it is impossible.
It feels like the situation at the moment is one of finding reasons why things cannot be done and it does not matter what sort of company is running the trains. When Arriva were kicked off everything was about how great TfW would be but my experience has been anything but.
I would still look seriously at Crewe to terminate the Manchester trains until there are enough units available to run more than a single 150 on the Marches. Knowing that you have to be at Piccadilly for the xx06 Northern to Crewe is absolutely fine, because presently to catch the xx30 you have to be at Piccadilly in time for the inward working.
It might help to stop selling advance tickets for the change at Crewe onto London trains, that surely can be changed to the Northern services for ticket acceptance between Manchester and Crewe.
Its coming to something when waiting at Piccadilly the 4 car Northerns on Buxton/Chester runs inspire jealousy.
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