Have you ever driven a bus in service?
No. I have cat C and D (+E) entitlements but I've never driven a "full bus" in a public capacity.
Let me give you a wake up call - telling people you're giving them a wake up call isn't some magic spell. But I appreciate the appeal to authority being implied; it's a common tactic which works well in order to deflect from the points actually being made, which you haven't responded to.
On a similar theme, you claim to live in Gwynedd, a rural part of north west Wales.
You’re spot on and in 90% of the time when a driver requests assistance in ejecting someone from the bus they are simply told to carry on as nobody is available.
I lived in London for 5 years (well, I think 4 years and 11 months). I have a family member who is a wheelchair user and I've supported them in navigating London. I have taken said family member from Wales to France on public transport. I have an architects' ruler which I use to measure the failure of dropped kerbs to get them fixed. Let me know if you want photographic evidence of us being stuck literally in the middle of the road, or indeed this wheelchair user having to decide whether or not to use the emergency alarm because they got deserted on a train.
You have an incredibly poor idea of the law. But parking that for a moment, and parking your gendering as well, you seem to fail to realise that the same powers could be exercised by a lad with a can of Stella bashing the roof.
So provide me with some info about when the last person (lady or man) was convicted of drinking alcohol on a service bus?
Anytime you fancy coming upto Manchester I’ll happily take you out on a bus and we can work some scenarios and I’ll try and demonstrate how it really is.
My accounts are convincing because I speak from experience as a time served driver with many years under my belt. I’ve seen it all!
Whilst you may categorise them in the same way and you have the same power to remove either the drunken lout or the obstinate buggy user, they will 100% be seen and judged in the court of opinion in a much different way.
100% correct. They are literally breaking the law and acting in an ableist manner.
They're breaking the law. That's enough - the -isms don't help the discussion one bit
No, they shouldn't. First of all you should consider whether or not they've had the appropriate training. Let's face it, there has been enough confusion in this thread as to what the law should be that I wouldn't be surprised if some drivers aren't 100% clear about it. If a driver has been appropriately trained and they continually fail to ask people to move, only then would the disciplinary process be involved and I'd hope that some sort of action plan would be put in place. Automatic firing is just a knee-jerk reaction, in my opinion.
If you refuse to get involved the law is very clear. By your actions your company is discriminating against someone because they are disabled. You must do more than simply make a casual request. That might not involve throwing people off the bus but you do need to get involved. If your company advises otherwise it is in breach of the Equality Act.
Exactly, you can imagine the outrage about a mother and toddler being turfed off a bus and left in a possibly dangerous situation, it's never going to happen.
Having read through the thread, I wanted to thank you for reminding people the difference between the court case and the actual law. I think as with so much in the bus industry (and maybe it happens in other sectors too) so many company rules/policies, and court judgements are mislabeled as law, and similarly many laws being ignored because people aren't being informed of them properly. Drivers get misinformed on their obligations and passengers being misinformed that they maybe have more or less rights than the reality, and it all becomes part of the mandela effect (Same as can't reverse with passengers on and other similar nonsense that people believe is law but isn't).
Once should be enough, with the driver explaining clearly why the passenger with the pram is being asked to move. A printed card or leaflet might actually help as then they actually have it in writing; it also looks more official and means that the driver can't be accused of making things up.
I think there's a misunderstanding between statute law and law created through precedence. They are both law, just created in different ways.
The judgement, and other law, doesn't unconditionally prohibit physically moving anybody. To deal with trespass, even civil trespass, using reasonable force to remove somebody is permitted.
Indeed, that is the case.
Yes, it's been left in an unfortunately grey area, though it was a success in some sense because it did make clear that a simple request is insufficient, so Paulley rightly celebrated with a glass of fizz outside the court.
You may be right. But before someone creates statute law in that way, I’d like them to think about the practicalities of enforcement, and the unforeseen consequences.
It won’t happen and for those who don’t drive for a living what I’ll add is that most larger companies along with unions massively encourage drivers NOT to leave the cab unless it’s a matter of life and death, so acting as bouncer and throwing people off is never going to happen.
Have a look at photos of early low boarding buses and and you will regularly see the benefits of them shown, such as pictures of buggies and wheelchairs
