TFL overcharge

[Mzzzs]

Hi i have been overcharged somehow by tfl but with the cyber attack on tfl how should i go around fixing it?
Do i phone them?

 

[Martym8]

How have you been overcharged - on a contactless payment?

Their advice is just to keep a record of errors/overpayments and then seek to claim these back when the cyber incident is over.

Cyber security incident in September 2024

Keep up to date on the latest investigations into the cyber security incident and our response

tfl.gov.uk

Customer services staff have limited access to check anything at present whether it is an oystercard or contactless payment issue. They can give general advice but not deal with specific problems/individual cases. So you can call them - but they are highly unlikely to be able to help beyond the advice at the link above.

This cyber issue 'remains ongoing' so there is no clarity or certainty when you or other customers will be able to get these problems resolved. Just keep any evidence you can e.g. bank/credit card statements and details of where/when/how you were overcharged.

 

[Mzzzs]

How have you been overcharged - on a contactless payment?

Their advice is just to keep a record of errors/overpayments and then seek to claim these back when the cyber incident is over.

Cyber security incident in September 2024

Keep up to date on the latest investigations into the cyber security incident and our response

tfl.gov.uk

Customer services staff have limited access to check anything at present whether it is an oystercard or contactless payment issue. They can give general advice but not deal with specific problems/individual cases. So you can call them - but they are highly unlikely to be able to help beyond the advice at the link above.

This cyber issue 'remains ongoing' so there is no clarity or certainty when you or other customers will be able to get these problems resolved. Just keep any evidence you can e.g. bank/credit card statements and details of where/when/how you were overcharged.

Thanks
yes contactless

 

[redreni]

Thanks
yes contactless

I'd keep a record of the dates/journeys you made and the fares/caps that should have applied. Leave them alone for now and pursue it later.

And if you happen to have an oyster card lying around in a sock drawer somewhere, I would consider getting it out and putting some money on it. I'm finding I can get journey histories quite easily on TVMs still, so if there were an error / overcharge I would at least be able to see what it was, take photographs of the TVM screen etc. It still wouldn't be possible to get it resolved until some unspecified future date, of course, but better than not even being able to see a journey history, imho.

 

[Haywain]

I'm finding I can get journey histories quite easily on TVMs still, so if there were an error / overcharge I would at least be able to see what it was, take photographs of the TVM screen etc.

I find that I can see my Oyster journey history quite adequately on both the TfL Oyster app and the Oyster website. I have no idea whether there is a problem with getting amendments at the present time though.

 

[Mzzzs]

Thanks all
i have a oyster card with railcard however never use it so i will now.
i got a few questions:

The contactless cap is 12.50? and i shouldn't be charged over that each day?
still no dates when tfl will be back to normal?

I'm tempted to get chargebacks as this is ridiculous

 

[Surreytraveller]

I suspect a lot of people are getting chargebacks. If TfL are overcharging people and unable to resolve the issues, that is likely illegal.
TfL come down hard on innocent mistake-makers, so innocent victims of TfL overcharging should come down hard on TfL

 

[signed]

The contactless cap is 12.50?

Depends what zones you travel through

 

[MikeWh]

The contactless cap is 12.50? and i shouldn't be charged over that each day?

Not sure where you've got that figure from. If you stick within zones 1-4 then the daily cap is £12.30. If you go out to Reading then it becomes £68.20 before 0930 and £31.90 if all travel is after 0930.

 

[plugwash]

The contactless cap is 12.50? and i shouldn't be charged over that each day?

Caps depend on where you are travelling, and some fares are not included in caps. In particular fares for incomplete journeys are not included.

Afaict the most common cause of overcharging is that the system thinks you are making incomplete journeys.

 

[Mzzzs]

Thanks
Ill wait a few weeks for TFL to overcome the cyber attack but I think at some point it's get ridiculous and i will look at something to get my money back.
Certainly now moving over to oyster card.

 

[Martym8]

Thanks
Ill wait a few weeks for TFL to overcome the cyber attack but I think at some point it's get ridiculous and i will look at something to get my money back.
Certainly now moving over to oyster card.

I agree - all their systems to take cash off people seem to be working fine including potentially thousands for those buying travelcards (I have an issue as highlighted on another thread as I bought a new Oystercard with an annual travelcard which I can't register to myself and is potentially registered to someone else). TfL cannot help resolve this - despite me having paid them thousands of pounds.

Systems to refund/assist people or issue free/discount passes are all restricted.

There are many people who are going to be seriously out of pocket on this if it goes on for weeks - some on low incomes. It really isn't sustainable for a multi billion pound public sector organisation to continue like this much longer.

 

[Mzzzs]

Hi does anyone know when the app/website for contactless be back online?

Thanks

 

[John R]

Hi does anyone know when the app/website for contactless be back online?

Thanks

I'm not sure even TfL knows. It seems to be really struggling to put things back on an even keel.

 

[miklcct]

Thanks
Ill wait a few weeks for TFL to overcome the cyber attack but I think at some point it's get ridiculous and i will look at something to get my money back.
Certainly now moving over to oyster card.

Unfortunately I had a missed touch a few weeks ago on my Oyster and it isn't even possible for me to correct it online because my Oyster is discounted, and the customer service can do nothing on it before the systems are up again.

 

[Haywain]

Unfortunately I had a missed touch a few weeks ago on my Oyster and it isn't even possible for me to correct it online because my Oyster is discounted, and the customer service can do nothing on it before the systems are up again.

As you seem to reside in Greater London perhaps you should contact your local London Assembly members and councillors about this, and London Travelwatch.

 

[miklcct]

As you seem to reside in Greater London perhaps you should contact your local London Assembly members and councillors about this, and London Travelwatch.

I will start escalating when the 8-week deadline is close.

 

[Mzzzs]

I knew a few people who have been overcharged and went online to fix it and discovered they cant they all are planning to contact the bank to get there money back.
I am planning to wait till the end of October and look at my options then.

Sorry but what's this 8-week deadline?

 

[signed]

Sorry but what's this 8-week deadline?

Journey history is only kept for 8 weeks

 

[Mojo]

Journey history is only kept for 8 weeks

Not for journeys paid for with Contactless - for this it is 13 months.

 

[signed]

Not for journeys paid for with Contactless - for this it is 13 months.

I stand corrected

 

[Surreytraveller]

What is TfL's issue? Why is it taking them so long to fix the issue?
People doing chargebacks must be costing them millions

 

[AndroidBango]

What is TfL's issue? Why is it taking them so long to fix the issue?
People doing chargebacks must be costing them millions

The British Library was hacked in October 2023 and though some things are sort of working again, their systems are still knackered (essentially they are rebuilding them from scratch). This won't be a quick fix for TFL.

 

[MallardLP]

What is TfL's issue? Why is it taking them so long to fix the issue?
People doing chargebacks must be costing them millions

Its taking a while because its far from straightforward. I've heard the staff on phones & emails are getting dogs abuse as though not resolving a touch in or registration issue is somehow deliberate.
If systems are breached once, its an open season for every cyber scumbag to attempt another hack so defending the network security is the priority.

 

[Hadders]

Its taking a while because its far from straightforward. I've heard the staff on phones & emails are getting dogs abuse as though not resolving a touch in or registration issue is somehow deliberate.
If systems are breached once, its an open season for every cyber scumbag to attempt another hack so defending the network security is the priority.

Staff should not be subjected to abusive behaviour, either in person or on the phone but TfL really do need to be more upfront about how they are going to deal with legitimate queries from customers impacted by the security breach.

They cannot hide behind it and delay refunds, journey corrections for much longer. They need to issue guidance to customers about how they are going to deal with things as soon as possible,

 

[redreni]

Staff should not be subjected to abusive behaviour, either in person or on the phone but TfL really do need to be more upfront about how they are going to deal with legitimate queries from customers impacted by the security breach.

They cannot hide behind it and delay refunds, journey corrections for much longer. They need to issue guidance to customers about how they are going to deal with things as soon as possible,

Absolutely.

 

[miklcct]

Its taking a while because its far from straightforward. I've heard the staff on phones & emails are getting dogs abuse as though not resolving a touch in or registration issue is somehow deliberate.
If systems are breached once, its an open season for every cyber scumbag to attempt another hack so defending the network security is the priority.

Doesn't every large organisation have a disaster recovery plan, with backup systems in place which can be used to keep services working while the recovery is in place?

For example, a while ago, the IT system at Hong Kong Airport went down, and the result was that the flights were written by hand using a notice board. In this case, why can't TfL process Zip Oyster applications using pen and paper, and non network connected systems?

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Doesn't every large organisation have a disaster recovery plan, with backup systems in place which can be used to keep services working while the recovery is in place?

In my experience (which of course won't be entirely comprehensive) there are backup systems in place to keep essential services working.

My guess is that a large majority of TfL users are not inconvenienced at all by not being able to sort out refunds, and only a tiny minority (if anyone at all) are facing real problems (not able to buy food or pay the rent level problems) from the outage. So it's not an essential system.

 

[AndroidBango]

Really interesting account of the hack on TFL and its effects: https://www.londoncentric.media/p/an-utter-****show-inside-the-transport

All this points to one of two outcomes. In the best case scenario TfL has inadvertently hit the carefully-balanced budgets of some of the most financially insecure Londoners, essentially asking them for a interest-free loan that will be paid back at some point in the future. In the worst case scenario, the money will never be reclaimed by customers and TfL could end up keeping millions of pounds of fares it should not have earned.

 

[Surreytraveller]

And yet TfL will quite happily carry on prosecuting people for dodging their fares, some of whom may even be TfL's fault.
Glad to see senior management are totally oblivious and are patting each other on the back, proud of their ability to blag