TfGM Bee Network - fleet discussion

[JasonL]

There aren't nearly enough Streetdecks to run all the 330 journeys. You'll see plenty of enviro400s on it as well. Mostly new ones but there's usually a couple of older vehicles in the mix.

With the 24 plate recent arrivals from Middleton to add to the mix as well.

 

[mattyharding]

330 Will always have new vehicles on it with the Streetdecks restricted to only working that service.

I've been on a streetdeck from Stockport to Ashton and they aren't bad but the seating layout is a little odd

 

[M60lad]

Out of interest what routes at Stockport are height restricted in regards to their Streetdecks? I'm pretty sure that they would get away from being used on quite a number of routes that Stockport operate unless I'm wrong, in fact I'm pretty sure that they would fit on both Trafford Centre routes (23/25) no problem.

Also considering its a flagship route I'm surprised they don't get used on 192 on the odd occasion.

 

[Class 466]

Out of interest what routes at Stockport are height restricted in regards to their Streetdecks? I'm pretty sure that they would get away from being used on quite a number of routes that Stockport operate unless I'm wrong, in fact I'm pretty sure that they would fit on both Trafford Centre routes (23/25) no problem.

Also considering it’s a flagship route I'm surprised they don't get used on 192 on the odd occasion.

They cannot be used on the 192 as there’s a chance they’ll take a diversionary route during congestion or disruption that has a lower bridge not cleared for full height vehicles. It’s far easier to put them all to work on one route that there’s no low bridges on, than risk it putting it on routes where some of the running boards may interwork with other routes (as I said literally two posts ago).

 

[py_megapixel]

IIRC there's actually a notice in the Streetdecks to indicate to drivers that they must not take the bus on any route other than 330.

In cases like this, it makes a lot of sense to have one very simple rule. I obviously don't know for certain but I imagine most Stagecoach staff at Stockport are now familiar with the fact that "Streetdeck = 330". So a controller will know without having to check where to allocate them for the day, and if despite this a driver is accidentally allocated one on another route they will know unambiguously, without having to check, that that they should refuse it.

If they instead had a long list of various different routes that the Streetdecks were allowed on, which periodically had to be amended as diversions were added/removed, it would be nowhere near as foolproof to ensure they didn't end up somewhere they shouldn't.

It's important to remember that sending out an overheight vehicle for a route would quite a serious safety issue, and the rules surrounding safety issues should always be as simple and unambiguous as possible. In this case, I think finding one route which requires at least enough vehicles and is known to have the required overhead clearance is a very good solution.

 

[Redmike]

I wonder if in the long term the Stockport streetdecks will move elsewhere as it does seem odd having a micro fleet like that.

 

[darylyates17]

Noticed on Bus Lists on The Web that 3 BZLs are still yet to be allocated (BU25 YXO,YXP & YXS) is it know where they will be heading too? 4 are also yet to enter service with Metroline (VMS 665-668) but I presume they will be for the 30 when that replaces the X50.

 

[toms]

I wonder if in the long term the Stockport streetdecks will move elsewhere as it does seem odd having a micro fleet like that.

It’s just what TfGM have allocated to them

 

[StagecoachBus1]

Is it known yet how much longer the older E400s with SC are set to be staying (not that I have any problems with them)? It was mentioned earlier in that they are set to be gone by the end of the year, however they are still remaining, which seems odd especially with the amount of transfers that have occured. For example, Stockport have seen almost 20 MMCs from Middleton arrive, yet 19291 and 4 other slightly newer E400s remain in daily service.

 

[Renown 3B3RA]

This has probably been answered before but out of interest what is the 192 diversionary route that has a low bridge on it?

 

[Chutters 73]

That would have been down to compliance though and most probably TFGM stipulated that the newer buses were used on the 330/192.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Dec 2025 ==


I was under the impression all the ex Oxford 62 plates had been done and there was only a few of the ex GNW ones that were not having the conversion/paint.
The ex Oxford ones are probably slightly more compliant than the older GNW ones.

As an aside, I picked up someone in a huge electric wheelchair last week who had great difficultly getting on the bus and then into the wheel chair bay, and that was on a brand new BZL! Layout can often look like it’s at fault but often it’s the wheel chair and or the user. Grab poles are there for a reason. If they have been moved or removed on converted buses then it’s probably to open up the second wheel chair bay.

I thought that someone with a giant wheelchair needed a ticket/pass to show that it had been inspected and was safe.

I remember trying to load a passenger at Parrswood terminus in a chair so large it got stuck between the stairs and the luggage rack. The event stands out in my memory because the wheelchair had flashing hazard lights and a very foul mouthed owner.

 

[Class 466]

I was under the impression all the ex Oxford 62 plates had been done and there was only a few of the ex GNW ones that were not having the conversion/paint.
The ex Oxford ones are probably slightly more compliant than the older GNW ones.

13175-79/81 (the Queens Road ones) were only repainted and not refurbished.

 

[redgate]

I thought that someone with a giant wheelchair needed a ticket/pass to show that it had been inspected and was safe.

I remember trying to load a passenger at Parrswood terminus in a chair so large it got stuck between the stairs and the luggage rack. The event stands out in my memory because the wheelchair had flashing hazard lights and a very foul mouthed owner.

That sounds like a pavement mobility scooter not a wheelchair!! You need a permit on the trams, and pretty sure this wouldn’t be allowed on them

We use bee network numerous times a day with my child who uses a (manual) wheelchair and 99.9% of the time it’s brilliant. Really appreciate the extra time and patience the drivers all show us - such a shame people like the one mentioned above are rude and entitled and spoil it for everyone.

All the old enviro400’s are easy to get on, not quite as much room on some of the MMC’s as the bit by the stairs seems narrower and some have an extra seat on the right. Streetdecks not great as random poles in the way but generally it’s all excellent and we rarely use our WAV now as Bee Network is so accessible and cheap.

 

[py_megapixel]

All the old enviro400’s are easy to get on, not quite as much room on some of the MMC’s as the bit by the stairs seems narrower and some have an extra seat on the right. Streetdecks not great as random poles in the way but generally it’s all excellent and we rarely use our WAV now as Bee Network is so accessible and cheap.

If you have the time and are willing to do so, you might consider writing some feedback to Transport for Greater Manchester about your experiences.
(Transport for Greater Manchester, if you're not aware, is the local government body that is responsible for the running of the Bee Network - you can find their contact details at https://tfgm.com/help-and-contact-us)

All too often organisations don't get positive feedback from the public, only complaints, which - aside from being a bit demoralising for the people who handle the feedback - makes it tricky to gauge what about their current service is good and so should be persisted through any future changes etc.

Also, now is the right time for the comments about some of the newer vehicles being more tricky to use, as they've just received the funding to order another large batch. Of course I can't imagine details of the design will be significantly changed on the basis of one person's views but the more people provide their feedback to inform the design, the better.

 

[redgate]

If you have the time and are willing to do so, you might consider writing some feedback to Transport for Greater Manchester about your experiences.
(Transport for Greater Manchester, if you're not aware, is the local government body that is responsible for the running of the Bee Network - you can find their contact details at https://tfgm.com/help-and-contact-us)

All too often organisations don't get positive feedback from the public, only complaints, which - aside from being a bit demoralising for the people who handle the feedback - makes it tricky to gauge what about their current service is good and so should be persisted through any future changes etc.

Also, now is the right time for the comments about some of the newer vehicles being more tricky to use, as they've just received the funding to order another large batch. Of course I can't imagine details of the design will be significantly changed on the basis of one person's views but the more people provide their feedback to inform the design, the better.

Great idea - I will do this, thank you

 

[Redmike]

A few Diamond Mellor Stratas seem to have problems with the destinations as they currently have sheets of paper with route numbers on.

 

[Class 466]

A few Diamond Mellor Stratas seem to have problems with the destinations as they currently have sheets of paper with route numbers on.

That’s tiny compared to all the other issues with those heaps!

 

[Chutters 73]

This has probably been answered before but out of interest what is the 192 diversionary route that has a low bridge on it?

Most of the side roads along the A6 are up on the depot wall as too low for a double decker, but most drivers know what will fit where. e.g Kirkmanshulme Lane is OK for a stagecoach decker but not a GNW B9.

The Greenroad low bridge alert, when first fitted, was annoying while driving the 191 as it went off continually from Hazel Grove.

That sounds like a pavement mobility scooter not a wheelchair!! You need a permit on the trams, and pretty sure this wouldn’t be allowed on them

i remember the one of the training team taking a bus out to a customer who was (I think) getting a new chair or new to an electric one. Either went near their home, or more likely, ISTR to a big car park where the customer had a go at manoeuvres safely.

i don’t think this was a one off, but I‘m not sure if it happens these days. It was probably in 2015ish and the bus as a then new E400MMC (orange head rests). I remember because I was asked to park it in a specific bay so it would be super-clean. (This makes me think it was possibly a PR stunt….)

 

[mayneway]

I thought that someone with a giant wheelchair needed a ticket/pass to show that it had been inspected and was safe.

I remember trying to load a passenger at Parrswood terminus in a chair so large it got stuck between the stairs and the luggage rack. The event stands out in my memory because the wheelchair had flashing hazard lights and a very foul mouthed owner.

As others have mentioned you need a permit for a mobility scooter not a wheel chair.

 

[Chutters 73]

As others have mentioned you need a permit for a mobility scooter not a wheel chair.

It’s probably my misunderstanding of the words to describe the item, rather than the item itself.

A family friend with cerebral palsy uses an electric mobility device which could be a scooter (it’s fast and long range) or a wheelchair (it’s the main thing she uses to get around) so a bus driver (me) is fairly likely to mislabel it.

 

[bolt057068]

I use the 480 service (Bolton-Bury) operated by Stagecoach. They use 62 reg ADL Enviro200's, which are the correct size of bus for this route as it's a busy service. However, the exterior has been painted in Bee Network livery but the interiors have yet to be refurbished. Plus, the engines seem to be getting tired and struggling on the hilly parts of the route. Does anyone know if these will eventually be replaced with newer vehicles?

 

[mayneway]

I use the 480 service (Bolton-Bury) operated by Stagecoach. They use 62 reg ADL Enviro200's, which are the correct size of bus for this route as it's a busy service. However, the exterior has been painted in Bee Network livery but the interiors have yet to be refurbished. Plus, the engines seem to be getting tired and struggling on the hilly parts of the route. Does anyone know if these will eventually be replaced with newer vehicles?

Officially the new E200 MMC’s were for the 480. The older E200’s were only sent to queens road for the Free bus when the TFGM hybrid Versa’s were scrapped.

 

[Haydocky]

I use the 480 service (Bolton-Bury) operated by Stagecoach. They use 62 reg ADL Enviro200's, which are the correct size of bus for this route as it's a busy service. However, the exterior has been painted in Bee Network livery but the interiors have yet to be refurbished. Plus, the engines seem to be getting tired and struggling on the hilly parts of the route. Does anyone know if these will eventually be replaced with newer vehicles?

Not entirely answering the question but a general observation; Queens Road seem to have a number of routes which get any vehicle available that will fit. Though the 480 doesn't strictly fall into this category they do seem to be more relaxed than with allocations on routes like 135 (majority 24 plate E400MMCs). Generally, if a bus will fit and it's easy to get out of the depot when it needs to be, it will get sent on there. Chances are the 62 plates tend to be at the front of the bays when 480s leave the depot. Just be glad you don't use the 149, which could be a pair of E400MMCs one day and a pair of Solo SRs the next.

 

[mayneway]

Not entirely answering the question but a general observation; Queens Road seem to have a number of routes which get any vehicle available that will fit. Though the 480 doesn't strictly fall into this category they do seem to be more relaxed than with allocations on routes like 135 (majority 24 plate E400MMCs). Generally, if a bus will fit and it's easy to get out of the depot when it needs to be, it will get sent on there. Chances are the 62 plates tend to be at the front of the bays when 480s leave the depot. Just be glad you don't use the 149, which could be a pair of E400MMCs one day and a pair of Solo SRs the next.

Compliance plays a big part on some routes such as the 135 etc.
Every route has stipulated vehicles. The 480 is most certainly the E200 MMC’s with the third also on the daytime bury circulars - the board goes dead to a school and runs back to bury in service (can’t remember service though).
The 149 *should* be E400 MMC’s but a couple of the boards used to inter work with the Freebus so in theory should now be electric BZLs.

 

[M60lad]

While 480 is meant to be MMC200s looking at the output for the past week its either been E200s or Solo SRs, as for seeing deckers on 480 this normally only happens now if one of the allocated vehicles brakes down, I know that there was one day last year there was a problem with one of the buses so a swap was done in Bury with the bus on 480 going onto 135 to get it back to Depot and the bus on 135 going onto 480.

 

[mayneway]

While 480 is meant to be MMC200s looking at the output for the past week its either been E200s or Solo SRs, as for seeing deckers on 480 this normally only happens now if one of the allocated vehicles brakes down, I know that there was one day last year there was a problem with one of the buses so a swap was done in Bury with the bus on 480 going onto 135 to get it back to Depot and the bus on 135 going onto 480.

As has been mentioned above vehicle allocations are normally down to various factors mainly where they are parked the night before and what’s on Inspection and VOR etc.
Queens road began using ‘thunderbird’ duties last summer which are basically a bus and driver that will go and sit at a central location and wait for any breakdowns etc to potentially protect any service mileage that might be lost. It’s normally done by a decker so if a fault develops on the 480 for example the driver and bus can be quickly dispatched to cover it, but yes roadside inspectors have in the past pulled 135’s to cover 480’s.

 

[mattyharding]

Looks like the former Middleton E400s are coming to Oldham as some are already there

 

[darylyates17]

Looks like the former Middleton E400s are coming to Oldham as some are already there

Most likely stop gaps until the next order of EVs are delivered.

 

[mayneway]

Looks like the former Middleton E400s are coming to Oldham as some are already there

Oldham is really struggling with the electric fleet and the winter months. The charge cycle is taking longer than normal.
Apparently there were loads of drivers with boards waiting for buses this afternoon at Oldham due to buses not being charged.

 

[MCRTransitYT]

Heywood Operations are due to move to a new depot in Bolton on Nelson Street, right near to Weston Street depot