TfGM Bee Network - fleet discussion

[toms]

Noticed that Metroline seem to be moving to using the same style destination blinds as Go North West… finally some consistency in presentation across the board?

Let’s hope Diamond, First and Stagecoach take suit

 

[Goldfish62]

Let’s hope Diamond, First and Stagecoach take suit

Hope so. I really dislike the default Hannover display set-up. Poor character definition and small ultimate destination combined with the fast-scrolling huge list of via points makes them difficult to read at any distance.

 

[Bovverboy]

If anyone would like to continue on this topic, please open a new thread otherwise back to the fleet discussion

I have started a new thread specifically concerned with the deroofing of Stagecoach bus 11512.

Deroofing of Bee Network bus on Barton Lane, Eccles, Monday 21 July 2025

Continued from this thread. https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/tfgm-bee-network-fleet-discussion.252940/ Last mentioned on page 94 of said thread. Does anyone know what has subsequently happened to the driver involved? Is anyone other than myself supportive of him?

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Class 466]

Hope so. I really dislike the default Hannover display set-up. Poor character definition and small ultimate destination combined with the fast-scrolling huge list of via points makes them difficult to read at any distance.

To be fair, it’s only fast on the Streetdecks. However the GNW font is far from perfect, the via points are too small to read at any distance as well.

Not entirely sure why some of the Stagecoach dests have such a long list of via points though - the 100 to Warrington is particularly long.

Let’s hope Diamond, First and Stagecoach take suit

Diamond already use static via points.

 

[Goldfish62]

To be fair, it’s only fast on the Streetdecks. However the GNW font is far from perfect, the via points are too small to read at any distance as well.

It's next to impossible getting decent clarity with standard definition LED displays within the size constraints. If you get the ultimate destination large and clear enough then you lose clarity of the via points. The only way of getting something of comparable legibility to printed blinds is going down the TfL road of high definition displays. However, they're very expensive hence why only Nottingham and Dublin have followed suit so far.

 

[Leyland Bus]

For those that were worrying, 3440 arrived back at Bolton this morning following its mammoth rebuild at Thorntons. It was followed in by 2002 which went away for respray.

 

[MCRTransitYT]

For those that were worrying, 3440 arrived back at Bolton this morning following its mammoth rebuild at Thorntons. It was followed in by 2002 which went away for respray.

Whys 2002 been resprayed?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I’m moving to Leigh on Sunday and the V1 busway service will become my commute (45 minutes to Central Manchester), instead of the 35/36/37/38 from Salford.

Now I absolutely love the former Vantage buses that were always the usual on V1 and V2, they have enormous and very squashy leather seats, but more importantly for me with a laptop - tables upstairs! They also have enormous legroom. So the prospect of a much longer commute will be improved by having these, especially at midnight after a knackering 12 hour shift.

However, I’ve noticed more and more V1 and V2 buses running with ordinary buses, which have the regular seats and no tables, making for a much less comfortable journey. It’s making me worried that they plan to replace the squashy leather seated buses as the backbone of the busway service… There aren’t any plans to remove them, are there?

 

[G760XRE]

Noted on site at First Potteries depot today rubbed down for repaint is Diamond Bee Network B9TL 40629 BJ15TWK. Will this be getting Bee Network Yellow or Diamond livery?

40629 BJ15TWK

Diamond North West B9TL. Seen at First Potteries depot on 8.8.25, prepped for repaint.

www.flickr.com

 

[toms]

Noted on site at First Potteries depot today rubbed down for repaint is Diamond Bee Network B9TL 40629 BJ15TWK. Will this be getting Bee Network Yellow or Diamond livery?

40629 BJ15TWK

Diamond North West B9TL. Seen at First Potteries depot on 8.8.25, prepped for repaint.

www.flickr.com

From what I seen it was in Preston livery so maybe going into brighter diamond as it’s used on schools?

 

[Leyland Bus]

Whys 2002 been resprayed?

4 year repaint plan, have to start somewhere.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Aug 2025 ==

I’m moving to Leigh on Sunday and the V1 busway service will become my commute (45 minutes to Central Manchester), instead of the 35/36/37/38 from Salford.

Now I absolutely love the former Vantage buses that were always the usual on V1 and V2, they have enormous and very squashy leather seats, but more importantly for me with a laptop - tables upstairs! They also have enormous legroom. So the prospect of a much longer commute will be improved by having these, especially at midnight after a knackering 12 hour shift.

However, I’ve noticed more and more V1 and V2 buses running with ordinary buses, which have the regular seats and no tables, making for a much less comfortable journey. It’s making me worried that they plan to replace the squashy leather seated buses as the backbone of the busway service… There aren’t any plans to remove them, are there?

There are only X number of the original Vantage buses and with service level increases normal buses (obviously with guide wheels) have to be used. So far there are no plans to jettison them, they are hybrid, so are rated highly with TfGM.

 

[Leedsbusman]

4 year repaint plan, have to start somewhere.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Aug 2025 ==


There are only X number of the original Vantage buses and with service level increases normal buses (obviously with guide wheels) have to be used. So far there are no plans to jettison them, they are hybrid, so are rated highly with TfGM.

The five year age limit presumably having long since been forgotten.
Will be interesting to see if they replace them eventually with better spec buses, I’m not confident as they seem very much one size fits all in their approach.

 

[Dallamlad]

The five year age limit presumably having long since been forgotten.
Will be interesting to see if they replace them eventually with better spec buses, I’m not confident as they seem very much one size fits all in their approach.

If memory serves just before COVID the government awarded some funding to TFGM to upgrade Vantage but the pandemic put the breaks on the whole thing.

Someone will correct me if I’m wrong but wasn’t there an issue with finding an electric vehicle which worked on the busway at the time as well?

 

[py_megapixel]

The five year age limit presumably having long since been forgotten.
Will be interesting to see if they replace them eventually with better spec buses, I’m not confident as they seem very much one size fits all in their approach.

The new vehicle specification document that TfGM released under FoI a while back does include provisions for them to stipulate coach-style seats and tables on the upper deck as an upgrade over the standard spec for specific vehicle batches, which seems quite heavily aimed at the busway.

The one-size-fits-all approach is nothing new of course - Stagecoach for example simply ordered batch after batch of very similar Enviro 400s. There was a hierarchy of sorts where the flagship routes such as the 192 would get newest ones first (although that does persist now!) the spec evolved over time with the addition of e.g. USB ports. Similarly in the north, First was very homogeneous, and while the sale of parts of the business to Go-Ahead and Diamond resulted in some more variety in branding, the standard to which buses were specified was very similar.

The only routes that I can remember having any sort of unique bus spec are Vantage and Arriva's attempt at introducing the Sapphire brand on the 130 and 263 routes... they later pulled out of the 130 entirely and its replacement is contracted by Cheshire East and barely even enters GM, while the 263 is now run by brand new Enviro 200s to TfGM standard spec, which includes high-backed seats, charging points, automated announcements and a lot of marketing about a commitment to a high quality service - basically everything that Arriva once marketed as special is now standard under TfGM anyway.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Arriva's attempt at introducing the Sapphire brand on the 130 and 263 routes...

And the 362 (now 632)/575 in Wigan

Stagecoach Gold is also used for the 125, but that's not now a Bee Network service.

 

[daodao]

There are another couple of bus routes entering Greater Manchester that have unique branding, but they are outwith the Bee network:

• X43 (the Witch Way) from Burnley to central Manchester; and
• 199 (Skyline) from Buxton to Manchester Airport.

 

[MCRTransitYT]

Stagecoach Gold is also used for the 125, but that's not now a Bee Network seservice.

It's no longer a Gold Service, as they got 23/73 plate e400mmcs as part of the big order across stagecoach, and the gold scanias are being painted navy blue, with some in local before we've got you was released

 

[Statto]

There are another couple of bus routes entering Greater Manchester that have unique branding, but they are outwith the Bee network:

• X43 (the Witch Way) from Burnley to central Manchester; and
• 199 (Skyline) from Buxton to Manchester Airport.

A few other routes from Lancashire that run into GM area have branding too, including,
1 Bolton - Blackburn (The One)
481/483 Blackburn/Burnley - Bury (Irwell Line)
464 Accrington - Rochdale (the 464)
X41 Accrington - Manchester (Red Express)

 

[Leedsbusman]

The new vehicle specification document that TfGM released under FoI a while back does include provisions for them to stipulate coach-style seats and tables on the upper deck as an upgrade over the standard spec for specific vehicle batches, which seems quite heavily aimed at the busway.

The one-size-fits-all approach is nothing new of course - Stagecoach for example simply ordered batch after batch of very similar Enviro 400s. There was a hierarchy of sorts where the flagship routes such as the 192 would get newest ones first (although that does persist now!) the spec evolved over time with the addition of e.g. USB ports. Similarly in the north, First was very homogeneous, and while the sale of parts of the business to Go-Ahead and Diamond resulted in some more variety in branding, the standard to which buses were specified was very similar.

The only routes that I can remember having any sort of unique bus spec are Vantage and Arriva's attempt at introducing the Sapphire brand on the 130 and 263 routes... they later pulled out of the 130 entirely and its replacement is contracted by Cheshire East and barely even enters GM, while the 263 is now run by brand new Enviro 200s to TfGM standard spec, which includes high-backed seats, charging points, automated announcements and a lot of marketing about a commitment to a high quality service - basically everything that Arriva once marketed as special is now standard under TfGM anyway.

That’s reassuring, I hadn’t spotted that. It is curious that having sought a premium identity when tendering for a busway operator they haven’t done anything within the Bee identity to differentiate it.

 

[mayneway]

As a driver driving in and out of Manchester City centre every day one of the big issues with the original vantage hybrids was capacity. Every afternoon there would be a row of vantages leaving town with ‘bus full’ up, leaving passengers behind at shops heading towards Salford.
At least with the Evosetti’s yes the seating is awful but they simply fit more on.

 

[Leyland Bus]

That’s reassuring, I hadn’t spotted that. It is curious that having sought a premium identity when tendering for a busway operator they haven’t done anything within the Bee identity to differentiate it.

Does it really need differentiating? It's fairly established with locals and the destination and timetables tells you the rest??

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Aug 2025 ==

The five year age limit presumably having long since been forgotten.
Will be interesting to see if they replace them eventually with better spec buses, I’m not confident as they seem very much one size fits all in their approach.

There has been constant chatter around replacements but so far, nothing has come of it. Indeed the Volvo BZL that we trialed at Bolton was with a view to Vantage replacement...

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Aug 2025 ==

The five year age limit presumably having long since been forgotten.
Will be interesting to see if they replace them eventually with better spec buses, I’m not confident as they seem very much one size fits all in their approach.

There has been constant chatter around replacements but so far, nothing has come of it. Indeed the Volvo BZL that we trialed at Bolton was with a view to Vantage replacement...

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

There has been constant chatter around replacements but so far, nothing has come of it. Indeed the Volvo BZL that we trialed at Bolton was with a view to Vantage replacement...

Noooo, not just as I move to Leigh!

 

[Leyland Bus]

Noooo, not just as I move to Leigh!

I'm sure you'll get plenty rides on the normal Vantage before owt new arrives!

 

[py_megapixel]

Noooo, not just as I move to Leigh!

I'm sure it's possible to order a new Volvo with coach seats and tables! and as mentioned previously it seems plausible that would happen based on the allowances TfGM has made in the specification document.

The BZLs even come with air conditioning as well!

 

[esmith2k5]

I wonder if B8L Evosetti's to a higher spec would be viable for Vantage? That gets rid of the capacity problem at least and could possibly end with some of the extra peak running boards(inc V4) being amalgamated into other V1/2 services as capacity is higher?

 

[MCRTransitYT]

I wonder if B8L Evosetti's to a higher spec would be viable for Vantage? That gets rid of the capacity problem at least and could possibly end with some of the extra peak running boards(inc V4) being amalgamated into other V1/2 services as capacity is higher?

At the moment, B8L Evosetis can only be fitted with the Hong Kong seats but I know they are trying to find a way to put UK seats in them. However especially with Bolton being electrified and they are getting 38 more electrics, this could mean the BZLs are more likely to be the replacement

 

[GCH100]

I don't think TfGM have plans to buy any none electrics from now on so B8L's just wouldn't happen, the fact the fleet hasn't been renewed, perhaps means that they are waiting for the possibility of a Tri-Axle Volvo BZL, who knows. However the fleet on V1 and V2 is getting that members of it regularly need towing back to Bolton, basically the current vehicles are hammered with high speed mileage all the time, so would make sense possibly to transfer them onto slower work. Lets not forget Wright Streetdeck Electroliners can also be used on guided busways, not only Volvo's so perhaps its possible over time that they might be introduced rather than the Volvo's, and there is a tri-axle being developed of them, so maybe thats another possibility.

 

[toms]

I don't think TfGM have plans to buy any none electrics from now on so B8L's just wouldn't happen, the fact the fleet hasn't been renewed, perhaps means that they are waiting for the possibility of a Tri-Axle Volvo BZL, who knows. However the fleet on V1 and V2 is getting that members of it regularly need towing back to Bolton, basically the current vehicles are hammered with high speed mileage all the time, so would make sense possibly to transfer them onto slower work. Lets not forget Wright Streetdeck Electroliners can also be used on guided busways, not only Volvo's so perhaps its possible over time that they might be introduced rather than the Volvo's, and there is a tri-axle being developed of them, so maybe thats another possibility.

Havent TfGM got the funding for further electrics?

 

[py_megapixel]

Lets not forget Wright Streetdeck Electroliners can also be used on guided busways

Is this something Wright advertises? I'm not aware of any Streetdecks currently in service on guided routes

 

[mattb7tl]

Is this something Wright advertises? I'm not aware of any Streetdecks currently in service on guided routes

Leeds. They keep snapping off, however.