DiscoSteve
Member
OK so I got the route number wrong - question still stands - someone in the depot allocated the vehicle to a driver to drive the route under that low bridge - why were they allowed to allocate that vehicle to that route?
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TfGM Bee Network - fleet discussion
- Thread starter Leyland Bus
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The bus went off route the 100 is normally a double decker route but doesn't go under that bridge
Leedsbusman
Member
The driver went the wrong way. The 100 is usually double deck and is not routed under that bridge so purely the fault of the driver not the depot!
People seem to be viewing the driver's mistake as not much short of a capital offence.
For most of the day, only one 100 bus per hour goes through to Warrington, another one per hour terminates at Hollins Green, and two per hour terminate at the Trafford Centre - which is the same number as those of the 52s.
I don't for a moment think that the driver 'thought' he was on a 52, but, on the spur of the moment, he didn't give sufficient thought to what he was on.
I think the big difference here is there's next to no second chance. Once the crucial mistake has been made, there's only a matter of a few seconds to realise the said mistake (or perhaps be alerted by passengers). In the linked shot, the driver approached along Redclyffe Road (coming in from the right), then incorrectly turned right into Barton Lane. As you'll see there's only a matter of yards before the obstruction. I think it's being said that the protective barrier you can see was knocked down after a previous incident and not replaced.
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Any chance of giving one or two examples?
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Leyland Bus
Member
Out of sheer curiosity, are or have you ever been a bus driver?
From an independent perspective, I don't think they are. They are simply saying that the driver, unfortunately, appears to have made an unforced error. I don't see anyone saying what the outcome should be for the driver but simply they've made the mistake alone and with that comes the accountability.
I have been a bus driver (amongst other things), but am now retired.
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What I am suggesting as an extraneous circumstance, all the ingredients were there for an accident to happen. It didn't need much of a lapse on the part of the driver for it to end in disaster.
The driver shouldn't be driving the double decker under the low bridge, that much is clear.
But it is inevitable that humans will make mistakes, and this is a mistake many have made. It is entirely predictable that it will happen again, and if it happens enough times eventually it is likely there will be a more serious outcome. So TfGM, Stagecoach and Salford Council need to do something about it.
If the most recent streetview image is representative of how the bridge appeared on the day of the incident whichever authority is responsible for the signage has a lot to answer for. There's the lack of maintenance of the extra warning bar/chains (which you can see at one time had hi-vis attachments, but obviously they haven't been replaced), but not having any warning at all on the bridge itself is inexcusable. The signs positioned on either side of the road at the junction have obvious potential to be missed by a driver turning right - which is exactly the way they know buses are likely to be coming.
But it is inevitable that humans will make mistakes, and this is a mistake many have made. It is entirely predictable that it will happen again, and if it happens enough times eventually it is likely there will be a more serious outcome. So TfGM, Stagecoach and Salford Council need to do something about it.
If the most recent streetview image is representative of how the bridge appeared on the day of the incident whichever authority is responsible for the signage has a lot to answer for. There's the lack of maintenance of the extra warning bar/chains (which you can see at one time had hi-vis attachments, but obviously they haven't been replaced), but not having any warning at all on the bridge itself is inexcusable. The signs positioned on either side of the road at the junction have obvious potential to be missed by a driver turning right - which is exactly the way they know buses are likely to be coming.
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Leedsbusman
Member
So it’s the bridge’s fault for being there basically.
mayneway
Member
The correct vehicle was allocated to the 100. The driver took a wrong turn and hit the bridge. It’s 60 yards from the correct route, however the depot has another route (52) that goes under the bridge using single deckers. The driver had apparently been on the 52’a (under the bridge) in the morning followed by a 100 in the afternoon.
It would seem that this was an obvious risk, hence my earlier suggestion of different depots operating the two routes. Surely it is all about risk minimisation.
With the driver having done a 52s beforehand I can actually see how this has actually happened, Bus Drivers can and do make mistakes on routes from time to time, in the past at Oldham Depot there were some boards whereby you would do a 83 to Manchester then a 181/182 out and I have actually known and been on buses that have gone straight past Dean Lane (181/182 route) with the driver thinking their still on 83s its only when they've looked at the running board they realise their mistake.
Also I'm guessing its also happened at Queens Road whereby a driver who has done a 67 for a first piece and then gone onto a 100 for his second piece has suddenly forgotten their on 100 and gone straight past Barton Road.
Also I'm guessing its also happened at Queens Road whereby a driver who has done a 67 for a first piece and then gone onto a 100 for his second piece has suddenly forgotten their on 100 and gone straight past Barton Road.
mayneway
Member
Spot on. It’s called auto pilot and as a driver myself one of the main causes Is fatigue.
When I did lates in Ashton many years ago and worked long days with overtime before my duty as the night went on id feel more and more tired. The amount of times I did a 39 instead of a 38 I wouldn’t like to count but it’s literally past where you should have turned and you suddenly remember.
Lewisham2221
Established Member
It's not just about the driver making the wrong turn. Not only did he make the wrong turn, he also then failed to confirm the height of his vehicle before proceeding under the bridge. It's two mistakes by the driver, albeit with some other mitigating factors, which all, unfortunately, aligned at the same time. But despite any of the mitigation, it is still, undeniably driver error.
From someone who spent over a decade driving buses; including on routes where some routes operate with single deckers and turn right before passing under a low bridge about 50yds from the junction (so low, that even some single deck vehicles were too tall to pass under it) and other routes operated with double deckers which continue straight on past the junction, sometimes on the same day.
From someone who spent over a decade driving buses; including on routes where some routes operate with single deckers and turn right before passing under a low bridge about 50yds from the junction (so low, that even some single deck vehicles were too tall to pass under it) and other routes operated with double deckers which continue straight on past the junction, sometimes on the same day.
Class 466
Established Member
Feels like this should’ve had a thread of its own now it’s strayed miles from being a fleet discussion
Agreed, although please feel free to use the report function to suggest this.
If anyone would like to continue on this topic, please open a new thread otherwise back to the fleet discussion
xitz2012@gmail
Member
It would seem that Bolton based 6242 (BF62JZD) has been painted out of Brighter Diamond livery into GNW MCR livery - are these 62 plate citaros destined for the school fleet?
mayneway
Member
Not sure how true it is but apparently Middleton are finally running out of their temporary yard in Hollinwood while the final phases of electrical works are carried out at Greengate.
Leyland Bus
Member
Oh good, hopefully those electric boxes will leave soon and we can have the parking spaces back
MCRTransitYT
Member
Does anyone know what happened to GNW 3440 MX20 KYE? It hasn't tracked in a while but I don't remember seeing it in the news of there being a crash with it involved, I only remember 3452 and 3453 being crashed somehow (one was hit by 4024, other hit weston street bridge)
Leyland Bus
Member
3440 is the front RTA from around Xmas time, a car travelling along Blackfriers doing around 60 (being chased by the Police) slammed into the front of it whilst it was doing 30, so a 90mph collision. It won't be back for awhile.
978wta
Member
It’s a Stagecoach owned vehicle.
Class 466
Established Member
If only it were that simple.
Not to sure if its been reported but it seems that First Manchester have acquired Volvo B7s 69561-69565 from First West Yorkshire and these have already seen service replacing Streetlites on the Manchester Airport Amazon Contract.
Whether these will eventually be repainted into Bee Network livery or remain in First livery remains to be seen.
Whether these will eventually be repainted into Bee Network livery or remain in First livery remains to be seen.
The B7RLE’s were a straight swap for StreetLite’s which have gone to Halifax (I know which area got the better of this swap).
MCRTransitYT
Member
They are private hire buses so will stay in first. If they get painted it'll most likely be into ultraviolet like 3 of them
Resuwen
Member
Does anyone have a read on how far away we are from all Bee Network vehicles being in full livery?
Leyland Bus
Member
Certainly won't be this year. May'be by the end of next year would be a fair assessment. It all depends on whether TfGM fit depots with spray booths or rethink how buses are painted.
toms
Member
I know there was some sort of goal set out by TfGM at the very start in 2023 but that soon disappeared from the internet. Go Ahead have done well with there resprays I have to say, only a few left in brighter diamond in under 2 years
Class 466
Established Member
Noticed that Metroline seem to be moving to using the same style destination blinds as Go North West… finally some consistency in presentation across the board?