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TfGM Bee Network - fleet discussion

aswilliamsuk

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The latest papers for the Greater Manchester Combined Authority meeting says that TfGM have agreed to buy 72 E400MMCs from Stagecoach - they are less than a year old and to Bee Network spec - so presumably from the 11798-880 batch. They are to replace 18 Yellow School buses from Tranche 1 and 2, 37 older "interim" fleet buses and 12 to enhance services.

Also the papers note that the 170 Volvo ZEB's that were originally ordered for Stockport will be reallocated (initially) to Metroline (110) and Stagecoach Middleton (43) with the remaining 17 not currently allocated. It is estimated that around 69 of the Metroline ones will be delivered before the commencement of Tranche 3 in January.

Finally, there is a reference to 94 ZEBs by franchise operators - I'm not sure if these are new orders or have already been announced !

94 ZEBs were mentioned months ago on post #643 - they were approved at a previous GMCA meeting.

What's different is that GMCA/TfGM appear to be buying them from the operators that have bought them/ordered them. I can only presume that's the E400EVs ordered for Stagecoach and the 19 Wright Electroliners for GNW, at least.
 
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Class 466

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The latest papers for the Greater Manchester Combined Authority meeting says that TfGM have agreed to buy 72 E400MMCs from Stagecoach - they are less than a year old and to Bee Network spec - so presumably from the 11798-880 batch. They are to replace 18 Yellow School buses from Tranche 1 and 2, 37 older "interim" fleet buses and 12 to enhance services.
All of the 24 Plate Enviro 400MMCs still in Manchester will remain here. 11798/99 were already permanently allocated to Oldham & Queens Road. 41 will go to Queens Road to replace 37 B9TLs and 4 Enviro 400 Classics. The rest I presume will go to Stockport & Middleton.
 

daodao

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Also the papers note that the 170 Volvo ZEB's that were originally ordered for Stockport will be reallocated (initially) to Metroline (110) and Stagecoach Middleton (43) with the remaining 17 not currently allocated. It is estimated that around 69 of the Metroline ones will be delivered before the commencement of Tranche 3 in January.

Finally, there is a reference to 94 ZEBs by franchise operators - I'm not sure if these are new orders or have already been announced !
What proportion of these Volvo ZEB and other new bus orders for the Bee network will be single-deck? From personal observation, certain of the current bus operators appear to be using double-deck buses on routes and at times when they really aren't needed. I understand their use on very busy corridors, primarily into Manchester city centre where there isn't a parallel Metrolink service, but elsewhere, particularly south of the River Mersey, double-deck buses seem superfluous on most routes.

On a related note, are TfGM specifying the minimum bus size/capacity to be used on individual franchised Bee Network routes?
 
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47550

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What proportion of these Volvo ZEB and other new bus orders for the Bee network will be single-deck? From personal observation, certain of the current bus operators appear to be using double-deck buses on routes and at times when they really aren't needed. I understand their use on very busy corridors, primarily into Manchester city centre where there isn't a parallel Metrolink service, but elsewhere, particularly south of the River Mersey, double-deck buses seem superfluous on most routes.

On a related note, are TfGM specifying the minimum bus size/capacity to be used on individual franchised Bee Network routes?
I thought that there were 170 double deckers and 12 single deck but I’m sure someone can correct me.
 

Tim33160

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On a related note, are TfGM specifying the minimum bus size/capacity to be used on individual franchised Bee Network routes?
It has been said that TfGM has specified that all bus routes into the city centre will be deckers
 

CJ1

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4 are on order and were to replace the 4 Mellor Strata’s. Now that Queens isn’t being electrified yet it remains to be seen whether they’ll delay delivery or divert to Oldham.
Aren’t they going to replace the Solos with the E100EVs as well? I thought they were going to be temporary as they don’t have the engine type stickers and full BN interior. Although they could use the BZL SDs to replace the Solos, maybe?
 

M60lad

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If this is true why is my local route 181/182 Shaw-Piccadilly allocated mainly E300s at the moment? Just seems odd when all other Manchester services out of Oldham Depot are either electrics or MMC400s.

I wonder with the next batch of electrics now arriving at Oldham this will now see the usage of E300s on 181/182s dwindle as the routes especially at rush hour does need deckers allocating to it but for some reason it seems frowned upon even if a driver asks for a decker rather than a single they get told no and to take out what's allocated whereas when it was First routers were flexible in what drivers could take out in service.
 

Class 466

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If this is true why is my local route 181/182 Shaw-Piccadilly allocated mainly E300s at the moment? Just seems odd when all other Manchester services out of Oldham Depot are either electrics or MMC400s.

I wonder with the next batch of electrics now arriving at Oldham this will now see the usage of E300s on 181/182s dwindle as the routes especially at rush hour does need deckers allocating to it but for some reason it seems frowned upon even if a driver asks for a decker rather than a single they get told no and to take out what's allocated whereas when it was First routers were flexible in what drivers could take out in service.
The 35 EVs are directly replacing 35 Enviro 400MMCs so no allocations will change on other routes. Maybe after January things may change when the 24 plates are reallocated.
 

M60lad

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Is there a reason why MMC400 10859 is at Queens Road when the rest of the batch are still with Stagecoach Manchester, are any more of this batch due to be refurbished and transferred to Bee Network?

Is there a reason why similar 10856 hasn't tracked since September? Apparently if Bus Times is to believed it last tracked on 25 September moving round Hyde Road.
 

Class 466

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Is there a reason why MMC400 10859 is at Queens Road when the rest of the batch are still with Stagecoach Manchester, are any more of this batch due to be refurbished and transferred to Bee Network?

Is there a reason why similar 10856 hasn't tracked since September? Apparently if Bus Times is to believed it last tracked on 25 September moving round Hyde Road.
10846-53 are also at Queens Road. All the SN17 MMCs in Manchester are gradually being repainted & refurbished for Bee Network work.

That was a miss track on 25 September. 10856 has been away for repaint & refurb for a while now.
 
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M60lad

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Interesting working this afternoon was of Wigan Depot Solo 4201 on 35/608 services, I saw it in Manchester this afternoon about 13:15 about to operate 13:23 35 service to Leigh.

Also Bolton E200 4038 has been out on 36/37s today another rather odd working.
 
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Stagecoach Enviro400 MMC 11269 (SN69ZGE) looks to have been transferred from Oldham to Queens Road today, the first of 35 vehicles from the SN69/SK20 batches coming to Queens Road to replace Scanias/B9TLs.
 
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mic

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Stagecoach Enviro400 MMC 11269 (SN69ZGE) has permanently transferred from Oldham to Queens Road today, the first of 35 vehicles from the SN69/SK20 batches coming to Queens Road to replace Scanias/B9TLs.
thanks for the update
 

darylyates17

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Stagecoach Enviro400 MMC 11269 (SN69ZGE) has permanently transferred from Oldham to Queens Road today, the first of 35 vehicles from the SN69/SK20 batches coming to Queens Road to replace Scanias/B9TLs.
When is it expected that the Scanias and B9s are likely to be replaced? It must be soon now.
 

mayneway

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Stagecoach Enviro400 MMC 11269 (SN69ZGE) has permanently transferred from Oldham to Queens Road today, the first of 35 vehicles from the SN69/SK20 batches coming to Queens Road to replace Scanias/B9TLs.
No it’s not!
It failed this morning on a dead run into town to do an 18, and was limped into queens road. Driver was due to finish at Oldham so was sent back in a car, bus was repaired at lunchtime and sent out on 100’s in the afternoon. It should return to Oldham depot tonight.

Metroline and an outside contractor are currently inspecting scania’s to decide what work is required before they move over to Hyde road for storage until January. Non have moved and all are still in service at Queens road.

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When is it expected that the Scanias and B9s are likely to be replaced? It must be soon now.
The Scania’s are currently being inspected by Metroline and an outside contractor for TFGM. They will put together a list of defects which they will expect stagecoach to sort before they move out. Non have been withdrawn from fleet yet!

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That was a miss track on 25 September. 10856 has been away for repaint & refurb for a while now.
Sure this is the one having a new engine!

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If this is true why is my local route 181/182 Shaw-Piccadilly allocated mainly E300s at the moment? Just seems odd when all other Manchester services out of Oldham Depot are either electrics or MMC400s.
I’ve just checked the latest Oldham boards and the 181/182 boards specify single decker E300’s.
 
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M60lad

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Out of interest apart from 181/182s what other routes at Oldham specify E300s on them?

As for the Scanias at Queens Road I thought each of them had work done on them during the period when they were being transferred from Go Northwest to Stagecoach so why would they need work doing on them again? Also am I right in thinking that some of the Queens Road batch have probably operated for Metroline before?

Does anyone know where E400Hs 12068 & 12069 are? They are listed in the fleet for Bee Network Stagecoach Manchester but 12068 last tracked on 6 December last year and 12069 last tracked 22 December last year both on various Stagecoach routes in/around Newcastle.
 

Leyland Bus

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As for the Scanias at Queens Road I thought each of them had work done on them during the period when they were being transferred from Go Northwest to Stagecoach so why would they need work doing on them again? Also am I right in thinking that some of the Queens Road batch have probably operated for Metroline before?
They have to be done everytime they change hands as per the contracts but also, Metroline aren't just going to take someone's word that these buses are fine. They'll want to make sure for themselves that they know exactly what they're getting.
 

Leedsbusman

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As for the Scanias at Queens Road I thought each of them had work done on them during the period when they were being transferred from Go Northwest to Stagecoach so why would they need work doing on them again? Also am I right in thinking that some of the Queens Road batch have probably operated for Metroline before?
It’s a standard process with a loaned vehicle. GNW would need to have rectified any issues Stagecoach find just as they will for Metroline. As they have been used since the Stagecoach inspection then deterioration will have happened.
 

Class 466

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11269 is out on an all day 135 board today - be interesting to see if it does indeed go back to Oldham to only come back a matter of weeks later!
 

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mayneway

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11269 is out on an all day 135 board today - be interesting to see if it does indeed go back to Oldham to only come back a matter of weeks later!
We weren’t sure if they would collect last night.
11269 is still an Oldham bus and 48111 is still a Middleton bus, oh and 19429 is still a queens road bus haha.

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Out of interest apart from 181/182s what other routes at Oldham specify E300s on them?
Mainly 181/182 and 57.
Odd trips on 180 and 82.
 

citybus2500

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I thought that there were 170 double deckers and 12 single deck but I’m sure someone can correct me.
The original order was 150 deckers and 20 singles, originally for Stockport but now being split betweem Tameside, Hyde Road and Middleton.

There is then an extra order for 12 singles. Not sure where for, but possibly for Freebus at Queens Road?

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Yep, hence why only 35 are being built and delivered to Oldham. The other 24 would have nowhere to go so they're on hold UFN.
The 24 are going elsewhere in TfGM land!
 

M60lad

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Looking at tracker this morning 11269 hasn't gone back to Oldham yet and is out on 67s and 19429 is still at Middleton and is spending the day on Moston Lane services
 

mayneway

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Looking at tracker this morning 11269 hasn't gone back to Oldham yet and is out on 67s and 19429 is still at Middleton and is spending the day on Moston Lane services
19429 has tonight returned to Queens road with 19481 going the other way to Middleton.
 

M60lad

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While it might seem odd would there be a reason for swapping one E400 for another of a similar type?
 
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Stagecoach’s Queens Road based Enviro400 MMC 10849 (SN17MJK) returned to service the other day after having a full repaint/refurbishment into Bee Network spec.
 

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mayneway

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Stagecoach’s Queens Road based Enviro400 MMC 10849 (SN17MJK) returned to service the other day after having a full repaint/refurbishment into Bee Network spec.
Meanwhile Queens roads newest transfer that never was…….. 11269 has now been collected and has returned home to Oldham, spending the evening on the 348’s.

E200 36783 is currently helping out at Middleton along with 19481 as they have a number of vehicles off the road.
 
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Meanwhile Queens roads newest transfer that never was…….. 11269 has now been collected and has returned home to Oldham, spending the evening on the 348’s.

E200 36783 is currently helping out at Middleton along with 19481 as they have a number of vehicles off the road.
What is 36783 dual tracking as? I'm sure I saw it yesterday in Prestwich on the 90 whilst it was also tracking on the 125 in Heywood.
 

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