TfGM Bee Network - fleet discussion

[Bungle965]

There was no frequency upgrade; the 17-plate batch was bought for the Forfar to Dundee route.

Perhaps with a (battery) fleet upgrade on the way for the Tayway it makes more sense to get rid of the big batch from Arbroath which are up for replacement anyway, and leave the smaller batch at Perth.

Let's get back on topic please

 

[Class 466]

Hyde road!
Was told they will be stored until January then pressed into service on January 5th with Metroline.

Yep - Should leave Queens in Late November/Through December for storage there.

 

[Kianlewis48]

70102 has arrived from Leicester on trail at Rochdale.

 

[mayneway]

There seems to be major issues with the TFGM telematics system ‘Mix’ at the moment. It’s been running for a few weeks now in the back ground with drivers getting used to fobs etc and on Monday (14th) it went live with drivers having to insert fobs to stop a loud irritating beep. Unfortunately it seems to have gremlins in the system as even with the drivers fob inserted it still beeps with many drivers refusing to continue in service until the beeping was stopped.
Today (15th) apparently TFGM have turned the system off until the issues can be rectified.

 

[Bungle965]

There seems to be major issues with the TFGM telematics system ‘Mix’ at the moment. It’s been running for a few weeks now in the back ground with drivers getting used to fobs etc and on Monday (14th) it went live with drivers having to insert fobs to stop a loud irritating beep. Unfortunately it seems to have gremlins in the system as even with the drivers fob inserted it still beeps with many drivers refusing to continue in service until the beeping was stopped.
Today (15th) apparently TFGM have turned the system off until the issues can be rectified.

The 59 that I was on this morning was beeping away, I was going insane by the time I got off at Piccadilly Gardens. I dread to think how the driver must have felt!

 

[xitz2012@gmail]

There seems to be major issues with the TFGM telematics system ‘Mix’ at the moment. It’s been running for a few weeks now in the back ground with drivers getting used to fobs etc and on Monday (14th) it went live with drivers having to insert fobs to stop a loud irritating beep. Unfortunately it seems to have gremlins in the system as even with the drivers fob inserted it still beeps with many drivers refusing to continue in service until the beeping was stopped.
Today (15th) apparently TFGM have turned the system off until the issues can be rectified.

Was on MX58DXH before for over an hour and there was a constant beep coming from the cab on that, felt bad for the driver having to put up with it for so long! I assume that was to do with the telematics system.

 

[mayneway]

Was on MX58DXH before for over an hour and there was a constant beep coming from the cab on that, felt bad for the driver having to put up with it for so long! I assume that was to do with the telematics system.

Yes it will be that. TFGM need to get this sorted quickly otherwise drivers are going to refuse to drive the effected buses with many describing the constant beep as worse than water torture.

Dread to think how much this system has cost but with Stagecoach, First and GNW all acquainted with Greenroad it would have made more sense to stick with that system.

 

[mangad]

Yes it will be that. TFGM need to get this sorted quickly otherwise drivers are going to refuse to drive the effected buses with many describing the constant beep as worse than water torture.

Dread to think how much this system has cost but with Stagecoach, First and GNW all acquainted with Greenroad it would have made more sense to stick with that system.

Someone at TfGM may even agree. But being a public body, TfGM has to follow specific procurement rules that apply to all public bodies. Unless it's a very small contract, they will usually to have to go out to the whole market.

 

[mayneway]

Someone at TfGM may even agree. But being a public body, TfGM has to follow specific procurement rules that apply to all public bodies. Unless it's a very small contract, they will usually to have to go out to the whole market.

Obviously they have gone with the cheapest provider.
I know yesterday several journeys were curtailed or dropped as drivers were unhappy to continue with the constant beeping.

Most drivers already have green road accounts and fobs, the majority of vehicles already have the set up, and it’s a system operators know well which works…. But yes most probably down to procurement.

 

[Delenn]

Someone at TfGM may even agree. But being a public body, TfGM has to follow specific procurement rules that apply to all public bodies. Unless it's a very small contract, they will usually to have to go out to the whole market.

Actually, that isn't what the rules say. You are allowed to ask for what you want (specifically), but you can't say who you want it from.

For example, you are allowed to say I want 500 Dell model xxxxx laptops, and the tender will ask for those specifically. We had a case a while ago where a supplier that wasn't Dell was cheaper than Dell themselves for the exact model we wanted, so we went with them.

In summary, if they wanted Greenroad, they could have tendered for Greenroad.

 

[mangad]

Actually, that isn't what the rules say. You are allowed to ask for what you want (specifically), but you can't say who you want it from.

For example, you are allowed to say I want 500 Dell model xxxxx laptops, and the tender will ask for those specifically. We had a case a while ago where a supplier that wasn't Dell was cheaper than Dell themselves for the exact model we wanted, so we went with them.

In summary, if they wanted Greenroad, they could have tendered for Greenroad.

There are many companies who sell Dell laptops. Are there many companies who sell Greenroad? Too tightly spec your requirements and someone is liable to challenge your procurement. And with good reason.

 

[Delenn]

There are many companies who sell Dell laptops. Are there many companies who sell Greenroad? Too tightly spec your requirements and someone is liable to challenge your procurement. And with good reason.

Not the case. I know, in my former life, I did government procurement on big projects. The rules are very clear. You are allowed to ask for what you want. Nothing in government procurement forces you to buy something you don't want.

But I'll leave the discussion there, as I don't want to derail the thread.

 

[M60lad]

I had Oldham 27947 home from work last night on 181 and that had the annoying beep not actually coming from the cab but the electrical cupboard behind the driver, I actually thought there was something wrong with it but on looking at the dash no warning lights nothing was showing up.

At least I now know what it is now

 

[37114]

There appears to be a Bee spec all ADL (as opposed to BYD chassis) Enviro 400EV complete in the back of the photo below:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/westernsmt/54076049981/in/photostream/

 

[Class 466]

There appears to be a Bee spec all ADL (as opposed to BYD chassis) Enviro 400EV complete in the back of the photo below:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/westernsmt/54076049981/in/photostream/

First delivery of the 35 going to Oldham is due very soon!

 

[aswilliamsuk]

First delivery of the 35 going to Oldham is due very soon!

Is it just an order for 35 Enviro 400EVs, or are there more than that on order?

 

[Citibus]

There appears to be a Bee spec all ADL (as opposed to BYD chassis) Enviro 400EV complete in the back of the photo below:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/westernsmt/54076049981/in/photostream/

The other unpainted buses appear to have Bee Network interiors as well

 

[citybus2500]

First delivery of the 35 going to Oldham is due very soon!

Batch is 59.

Most were originally intended for Queens Road, but electrification isn't likely anytime soon.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Oct 2024 ==

And the majority of the BZLs wont be here for Day 1 launch!

Theyre getting 62 out of 112 Enviro400Hs in Manchester already along with 36 from Stagecoach South Yorkshire, 20 Scania Omnicitys and at least 15 Volvo B9TLs from Queens Road - it's going to be a rather cobbled together fleet at this rate.

93 E400Hs was previously quoted. But given the number of BZLs likely to arrive in time keeps changing by the day it is possible numbers are going up.

Its the first batch, the second batch remain with Stagecoach Scotland East. This has been expected now for quite a few weeks, there will be a gap amongst them, as one, 13042 was destroyed in a fire in Dundee last year. These are what are coming 13041 SJ15 PUY/13043 SR15 NKW, 13044-13058 SJ15 PVL/N/F/K/E/O/VML/TW/U/Y/V/UX/TX/Z.

Only 14 were quoted as moving to Manchester, but again, developments with lack of BZLs may have led to changes.

 

[Class 466]

Batch is 59.

Most were originally intended for Queens Road, but electrification isn't likely anytime soon.

Yep, hence why only 35 are being built and delivered to Oldham. The other 24 would have nowhere to go so they're on hold UFN.

 

[CJ1]

Yep, hence why only 35 are being built and delivered to Oldham. The other 24 would have nowhere to go so they're on hold UFN.

I thought Stagecoach ordered about 20 odd SD E100 EVs. Are they still in production or are they part of the 35 being delivered?

 

[mayneway]

Yep, hence why only 35 are being built and delivered to Oldham. The other 24 would have nowhere to go so they're on hold UFN.

35 would make perfect sense as 20 Scania’s and 15 B9’s are to be withdrawn and stored at Hyde road for January 5th. 20+15=35 haha

Wondering if any of these 35 EV’s have actually turned up yet as the first movements of scania’s are rumoured to be as soon as this weekend.

 

[xitz2012@gmail]

35 would make perfect sense as 20 Scania’s and 15 B9’s are to be withdrawn and stored at Hyde road for January 5th. 20+15=35 haha

Wondering if any of these 35 EV’s have actually turned up yet as the first movements of scania’s are rumoured to be as soon as this weekend.

Makes even more sense when you consider the fact that Queens Road are getting 35 SN69/SK20s from Oldham when the EVs arrive! Let's hope the first Scania movements are this weekend - can't wait to see the back of them!

 

[Class 466]

35 would make perfect sense as 20 Scania’s and 15 B9’s are to be withdrawn and stored at Hyde road for January 5th. 20+15=35 haha

Wondering if any of these 35 EV’s have actually turned up yet as the first movements of scania’s are rumoured to be as soon as this weekend.

First one is due for delivery at some point this week - unlike the GNW electroliners that require further depot electrification, these do not, so can enter service relatively swiftly.

17/20 Scanias in service this morning with 2 Single Deckers on the Free Bus - No real difference to the past few weeks so it’s hard to tell if any Scanias have left yet.

 

[mbonwick]

Makes even more sense when you consider the fact that Queens Road are getting 35 SN69/SK20s from Oldham when the EVs arrive! Let's hope the first Scania movements are this weekend - can't wait to see the back of them!

You'd have thought it would make sense to move the B5LHs over and concentrate all the Volvos at one depot....or are they collectively so bad that the pain needs to be shared between Queens Rd and Oldham?!

 

[xitz2012@gmail]

You'd have thought it would make sense to move the B5LHs over and concentrate all the Volvos at one depot....or are they collectively so bad that the pain needs to be shared between Queens Rd and Oldham?!

They are - the 6 B5LHs at Queens Road will go to Oldham in January if not before, with 6 MMCs from Oldham coming to Queens Road in return.

 

[mayneway]

You'd have thought it would make sense to move the B5LHs over and concentrate all the Volvos at one depot....or are they collectively so bad that the pain needs to be shared between Queens Rd and Oldham?!

The majority of the work on the B5’s is done by Volvo/Thomas Hardies anyway so from an engineering point of view it’s irrelevant where they are run from.

 

[Class 466]

I thought Stagecoach ordered about 20 odd SD E100 EVs. Are they still in production or are they part of the 35 being delivered?

4 are on order and were to replace the 4 Mellor Strata’s. Now that Queens isn’t being electrified yet it remains to be seen whether they’ll delay delivery or divert to Oldham.

 

[aswilliamsuk]

4 are on order and were to replace the 4 Mellor Strata’s. Now that Queens isn’t being electrified yet it remains to be seen whether they’ll delay delivery or divert to Oldham.

Stagecoach has ordered 51 in total for wider group usage - they ordered 20 off the drawing board (which are currently being delivered to West Scotland (12) and East Scotland (8), and then ordered a further 10 for ZEBRA2 commitments as part of the larger ADL order announced earlier this year (https://www.route-one.net/news/adl-announces-order-of-244-buses-from-stagecoach/), and 21 more for London work (https://www.route-one.net/news/stag...be delivered in,with 472kWh of energy storage.). Any for TfGM work are additional to this as far as I can tell.

 

[mayneway]

4 are on order and were to replace the 4 Mellor Strata’s. Now that Queens isn’t being electrified yet it remains to be seen whether they’ll delay delivery or divert to Oldham.

I believe 11 are due early next year as permanent replacements on the Freebus.

 

[47550]

The latest papers for the Greater Manchester Combined Authority meeting says that TfGM have agreed to buy 72 E400MMCs from Stagecoach - they are less than a year old and to Bee Network spec - so presumably from the 11798-880 batch. They are to replace 18 Yellow School buses from Tranche 1 and 2, 37 older "interim" fleet buses and 12 to enhance services.

Also the papers note that the 170 Volvo ZEB's that were originally ordered for Stockport will be reallocated (initially) to Metroline (110) and Stagecoach Middleton (43) with the remaining 17 not currently allocated. It is estimated that around 69 of the Metroline ones will be delivered before the commencement of Tranche 3 in January.

Finally, there is a reference to 94 ZEBs by franchise operators - I'm not sure if these are new orders or have already been announced !

https://democracy.greatermanchester-ca.gov.uk/documents/s34426/16%20GMCA%2020241025%20Bus%20Franchising%20Fleet%20-%20Part%20A.pdf