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TfGM Bee Network - fleet discussion

158756

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Don't quote me on this but I think i read somewhere that operators have a deadline for getting their vehicles fully compliant with TfGM spec of 2 years after commencing operation. That would mean September 2025 for tranche 1 and of course later for tranches 2 and 3. There will inevitably be some software issues to iron out as well so we could be looking at 2027-2028 before it's working universally across the network, although I'd hope it would be mostly there some time before that.

In theory it will be mandatory nationwide from October 2024 (for buses less than 5 years old), 2025 (buses 5-15 years old) or 2026 (older buses), but I'll be very surprised if those deadlines aren't missed in a lot of places (the 2020 PRM deadline all over again...)

I noticed looking at the GNW fleet list the new Bee Network spec Enviro400 EVs only have 62 seats . Is that going to be rolled out to every bus eventually? So all the 75-80 seat buses with Stagecoach in South Manchester are going to have a lot taken out if they stay in GM?

Also, is there some regulation against putting tip-up seats in the wheelchair spaces now, or is it just TfGM preference not to? I know they are not many people's first choice, but with the lack of level access seating on these buses I'm sure plenty of elderly passengers would find them useful.
 
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Goldfish62

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I noticed looking at the GNW fleet list the new Bee Network spec Enviro400 EVs only have 62 seats . Is that going to be rolled out to every bus eventually? So all the 75-80 seat buses with Stagecoach in South Manchester are going to have a lot taken out if they stay in GM?

Also, is there some regulation against putting tip-up seats in the wheelchair spaces now, or is it just TfGM preference not to? I know they are not many people's first choice, but with the lack of level access seating on these buses I'm sure plenty of elderly passengers would find them useful.
The TfL-spec BYD E400s manage seven more seats downstairs than the Bee Network spec, despite being dual door! Two pairs in the low floor section, a pair immediately behind the driver (offside wheel arch) and a "fat" seat over the nearside front wheelarch.

I don't believe there's any regulation against tip-ups. TfL don't allow them in order to reduce the potential for conflict when a wheelchair user needs the space. However, with the Bee Network spec having two wheelchair spaces I'd have thought having tip-ups in one of the spaces would be a reasonable compromise.
 

CJ1

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Yeah the unusual allocations should stop now - just a summer holiday thing. They almost certainly won't go back to commercial operations in GM, as they will be too 'old'. Also, some have been repainted into the 2024 navy blue trial livery, so Stagecoach wouldn't do that if they had an intention of putting them in yellow in the near future.

My prediction for the MMCs would be that they come either from the East Midlands or South Wales operations. Both of these divisions have buses of the perfect age for GM school services. Also, South Wales will be able to lose some buses with the arrival of the ex Bee Network Optare Solo SRs (Stagecoach 24 plates which they were meant to get a few months ago), whilst East Midlands will likely be high on the list for some of the cascades from Tranche 3 anyway - they have a considerable amount of ALX400s as well as some old B7RLEs. Surely trading 10 MMCs between them in exchange for some other buses will be a relatively simple job?

Transferring to Metroline is a very unlikely prospect, as Metroline would not want or need some fully Stagecoach spec buses - if they needed single decks an order of E200MMCs seems much more likely.
Are you saying that they will bring up MMCs from other divisions just for school routes or for commercial routes?

Going off topic a bit, but why can’t they, for example, allocate an E200 on a school route in the morning and afternoon then in between these hours they go off on commercial routes, I’m pretty sure buses in London do this.

Also, do you know if all the Bee Network - Stagecoach Solo SRs are going to move to South Wales eventually, as they don’t have Bee Network spec interiors.
 

Class 466

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This isn't a speculative thread and yet it seems to have delved quite deep into the “what if?” territory.

So something non-speculative, the BYDs at Sharston have started having the power points fitted for Ticketer Machines when they transfer to Metroline.

The Electrification at Middleton has now started - as this will be done before there’s any whisper of electrification at Stockport, some of the BZLs ordered will go there now.
 

Park47515

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This isn't a speculative thread and yet it seems to have delved quite deep into the “what if?” territory.

So something non-speculative, the BYDs at Sharston have started having the power points fitted for Ticketer Machines when they transfer to Metroline.

The Electrification at Middleton has now started - as this will be done before there’s any whisper of electrification at Stockport, some of the BZLs ordered will go there now.
Greengate being electrified in a major way before Queens Road does seem very strange.

Are tfgm still looking at Central Park in the long term?
 

Class 466

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Greengate being electrified in a major way before Queens Road does seem very strange.

Are tfgm still looking at Central Park in the long term?
I know that Queens Road still needs some extensive work done on its roof which has delayed its electrification
 
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Are you saying that they will bring up MMCs from other divisions just for school routes or for commercial routes?

Going off topic a bit, but why can’t they, for example, allocate an E200 on a school route in the morning and afternoon then in between these hours they go off on commercial routes, I’m pretty sure buses in London do this.

Also, do you know if all the Bee Network - Stagecoach Solo SRs are going to move to South Wales eventually, as they don’t have Bee Network spec interiors.
No, I meant that they might bring up MMCs to replace the MX62 reg E200s, which aren’t school buses.

The reason they cannot allocate them on commercial routes in between school runs is because they are specifically school buses - this is why none have received bee network refurbs and don’t even have bee network vinyls. Although, I agree, it would make far more sense to use them on commercial runs during the day.

Yep - all of the Optare Solo SRs that Stagecoach have will go to South Wales, hence the Stagecoach spec.
 

M60lad

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If as it has been said that the all the remaining Solo SRs that Stagecoach Bee Network have got will eventually leave Manchester does anyone have any idea of what will replace them at both Middleton and Oldham Depots?
 

Class 466

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If as it has been said that the all the remaining Solo SRs that Stagecoach Bee Network have got will eventually leave Manchester does anyone have any idea of what will replace them at both Middleton and Oldham Depots?
Middleton will be when it’s electrified. According to a recent FOI an operator has ordered 4 Enviro 100EVs too - no idea who or where though.


The first attachment includes proof of the 143 Wright Streetdeck Ultroliners on their way to Manchester too.
 

Dallamlad

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This isn't a speculative thread and yet it seems to have delved quite deep into the “what if?” territory.

So something non-speculative, the BYDs at Sharston have started having the power points fitted for Ticketer Machines when they transfer to Metroline.

The Electrification at Middleton has now started - as this will be done before there’s any whisper of electrification at Stockport, some of the BZLs ordered will go there now.
I agree. I’ve set up a Bee Network fleet speculation thread so anyone who wants to chat about what they think might happen can do so there.

 

WWH44L

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My mistake, I didn’t realise I asked before. Ignore it then!
There is a new thread for the numerous speculation questions. Let’s keep this thread for the here and now and to discuss current fleet and genuine factual updates. My head is spinning with all the what ifs and do we know questions. :rolleyes:
 

Goldfish62

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Middleton will be when it’s electrified. According to a recent FOI an operator has ordered 4 Enviro 100EVs too - no idea who or where though.


The first attachment includes proof of the 143 Wright Streetdeck Ultroliners on their way to Manchester too.
Thanks for posting the FOI link. An interesting read. The new bus specification looks to be a much simplified version of the TfL new bus spec.
 

CJ1

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Does anyone know if the rest of the Go-Ahead BV66 and BG66 EvoSetis will get the full livery as 3051-53 already have the full BN livery. Why are the rest not getting them?
 

WWH44L

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Does anyone know if the rest of the Go-Ahead BV66 and BG66 EvoSetis will get the full livery as 3051-53 already have the full BN livery. Why are the rest not getting them?
Because most are used on schools and don’t need to be yellow. I’m sure if they need to made yellow they will in time. As mentioned before the Streetdecks are the priority followed by single decks.
 

CJ1

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Because most are used on schools and don’t need to be yellow. I’m sure if they need to made yellow they will in time. As mentioned before the Streetdecks are the priority followed by single decks.
When you say single decks are you talking about repainting the B7RLEs and Citaros? I thought they weren’t staying?
 

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