TfGM Bee Network - fleet discussion

[M60lad]

What's actually wrong with the ex First E300s from a driver point of view?

There's at least quite a few of them in the fleet that have good turn of speed and good acceleration when pushed, just a shame that as far as I know only one (27931) has been refurbished and this one apparently performs like as new, while most time they are stuck on 52/53s whenever they get to stretch their legs on something like 67/100 on Barton Stretch and the A57 from Hollins Green-M6 you'll see how reliable they can be.

As for the conversion from singles to deckers on Mainline route (to/from Manchester for example) then this is Stagecoach Policy and has been for a while hence why its rare you see singles on Manchester routes from Hyde Road, Stockport and Sharston Depots.

I know Oldham run singles on some Manchester duties but I think if they had enough deckers at Oldham Depot than this wouldn't happen plus I know there's the culture at Oldham Depot that some drivers prefer driving singles than doubles so if a single is sat in the depot available that they would take out a single rather than a double decker on their duty.

 

[mic]

What's actually wrong with the ex First E300s from a driver point of view?

There's at least quite a few of them in the fleet that have good turn of speed and good acceleration when pushed, just a shame that as far as I know only one (27931) has been refurbished and this one apparently performs like as new, while most time they are stuck on 52/53s whenever they get to stretch their legs on something like 67/100 on Barton Stretch and the A57 from Hollins Green-M6 you'll see how reliable they can be.

As for the conversion from singles to deckers on Mainline route (to/from Manchester for example) then this is Stagecoach Policy and has been for a while hence why its rare you see singles on Manchester routes from Hyde Road, Stockport and Sharston Depots.

I know Oldham run singles on some Manchester duties but I think if they had enough deckers at Oldham Depot than this wouldn't happen plus I know there's the culture at Oldham Depot that some drivers prefer driving singles than doubles so if a single is sat in the depot available that they would take out a single rather than a double decker on their duty.

27955 also got done ie refurbished and i think 27939 is been done

 

[mayneway]

What's actually wrong with the ex First E300s from a driver point of view?

There's at least quite a few of them in the fleet that have good turn of speed and good acceleration when pushed, just a shame that as far as I know only one (27931) has been refurbished and this one apparently performs like as new, while most time they are stuck on 52/53s whenever they get to stretch their legs on something like 67/100 on Barton Stretch and the A57 from Hollins Green-M6 you'll see how reliable they can be.

As for the conversion from singles to deckers on Mainline route (to/from Manchester for example) then this is Stagecoach Policy and has been for a while hence why its rare you see singles on Manchester routes from Hyde Road, Stockport and Sharston Depots.

I know Oldham run singles on some Manchester duties but I think if they had enough deckers at Oldham Depot than this wouldn't happen plus I know there's the culture at Oldham Depot that some drivers prefer driving singles than doubles so if a single is sat in the depot available that they would take out a single rather than a double decker on their duty.

The E300’s have very small cabs with little space. The gear box set up is awful and most are in de-rate with mil lights on.
They also have the standard god awful First spec interlock on the doors so every time you open the doors you have to have handbrake on, then once doors have closed and handbrake has been released there’s a pause until the interlock releases.

The stagecoach policy regarding deckers on routes in/out of Manchester is Irrelevant as it’s not technically a Stagecoach depot but a Bee Network depot. TFGM have specified what should be single and what should be double.
TFGM constantly requested the 93, 97 and 98 were operated by deckers with GNW but they insisted on using Streetlites on them which wasn’t ideal.

 

[507021]

Out of interest, is there any stipulation about what vehicle types can be ordered for Bee Network services? I know Wrightbus have a full order book at the moment which may well be the reason why, but it's very peculiar seeing Metroline and Rotala ordering Alexander Dennis stock.

 

[M60lad]

Rather odd working yesterday afternoon saw Bryn Depot E200 4029 working 13:18 35 Manchester-Leigh service, this duty and I think most 35 workings should be Streetdeck operated.

Not to sure how long it had been out as according to BusTimes 4029 hasn't tracked since 26 June so this particular journey on 35 wasn't tracking at all.

 

[Mollman]

Out of interest, is there any stipulation about what vehicle types can be ordered for Bee Network services? I know Wrightbus have a full order book at the moment which may well be the reason why, but it's very peculiar seeing Metroline and Rotala ordering Alexander Dennis stock.

I don't think so, they just have to meet the generic specifications.

 

[Class 466]

Out of interest, is there any stipulation about what vehicle types can be ordered for Bee Network services? I know Wrightbus have a full order book at the moment which may well be the reason why, but it's very peculiar seeing Metroline and Rotala ordering Alexander Dennis stock.

I believe it’s up to the operator - Metroline have ordered 126 Diesel Wright StreetDecks. Stagecoach have some ADL EVs on order as well as the BZLs for Bee Network contracts.

 

[xitz2012@gmail]

I believe it’s up to the operator - Metroline have ordered 126 Diesel Wright StreetDecks. Stagecoach have some ADL EVs on order as well as the BZLs for Bee Network contracts.

Are the new ADL Evs to replace B9s at Queens Road?

 

[darylyates17]

I believe it’s up to the operator - Metroline have ordered 126 Diesel Wright StreetDecks. Stagecoach have some ADL EVs on order as well as the BZLs for Bee Network contracts.

I might have asked this already but what is the expected PVR for Metroline? as I’ve already said I can see all but the 12 plate original E400s being sold on, the MMCs might end up on loan but will stay with Stagecoach, Metroline will need at least a good few hundred vehicles.

 

[D9006]

Rather odd working yesterday afternoon saw Bryn Depot E200 4029 working 13:18 35 Manchester-Leigh service, this duty and I think most 35 workings should be Streetdeck operated.

Not to sure how long it had been out as according to BusTimes 4029 hasn't tracked since 26 June so this particular journey on 35 wasn't tracking at all.

Have seen few single deckers on the 35s; it’s uncommon but not in the rare status.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Have seen few SDs on the 35s , it’s uncommon but not in the rare status

If it's uncommon that's good news. Back under Stagecoach it was a single decker quite frequently (and leaving people behind).

 

[Class 466]

Are the new ADL Evs to replace B9s at Queens Road?

reliant on the depot being electrified, but yes. Stagecoach have a lot of EVs coming in the next 6 months or so (BZL & ADL) but currently the infrastructure isn't there to actually charge any of them.

 

[Park47515]

I believe it’s up to the operator - Metroline have ordered 126 Diesel Wright StreetDecks. Stagecoach have some ADL EVs on order as well as the BZLs for Bee Network contracts.

Is there a link for this Metroline order?

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Is there a link for this Metroline order?

https://wrightbus.com/sites/default/files/inline-images/TIMES%20PDF%20JMG%20HYDROGEN%20ARTICLE%20APRIL%202024.jpeg

Of the 1,000-plus buses that will roll off the assembly line this year, only 12% will be conventional diesel, a legacy order for 126 buses for Manchester.

 

[GusB]

We're going to need a much better source, I'm afraid. The snippet from that Times article does not mention Metroline, and as far as I'm aware there has been nothing announced in any of the industry news sites.

 

[507021]

I don't think so, they just have to meet the generic specifications.

I believe it’s up to the operator - Metroline have ordered 126 Diesel Wright StreetDecks. Stagecoach have some ADL EVs on order as well as the BZLs for Bee Network contracts.

Thanks both, hopefully we'll see a bit more variety in Manchester going forward.

@Class 466 - I don't suppose you know if the Enviro400 EVs are a TfGM order to be operated by Stagecoach, or have the latter placed the order themselves, please?

 

[Class 466]

We're going to need a much better source, I'm afraid. The snippet from that Times article does not mention Metroline, and as far as I'm aware there has been nothing announced in any of the industry news sites.

Most orders don't get a big press announcement, none of the operater ordered vehicles so far have come with a press release specific to the operator. There's only one Tranche (3) left to go live and 1&2 already have their new vehicles - so it's fairly obvious that these are for Metroline along with the Enviro 200MMCs being delivered right now - which also haven't received any kind of press release.

 

[GusB]

Most orders don't get a big press announcement, none of the operater ordered vehicles so far have come with a press release specific to the operator. There's only one Tranche (3) left to go live and 1&2 already have their new vehicles - so it's fairly obvious that these are for Metroline along with the Enviro 200MMCs being delivered right now - which also haven't received any kind of press release.

Until it's confirmed that the order is for Metroline, it's nothing but speculation. An order of that size would have attracted press attention and people here on the forum would have been all over it.

 

[mayneway]

reliant on the depot being electrified, but yes. Stagecoach have a lot of EVs coming in the next 6 months or so (BZL & ADL) but currently the infrastructure isn't there to actually charge any of them.

The EV’s won’t directly replace the B9’s which are expected to move to another depot at the end of the year. The electrification of Queens can only be done once the work on the roof is completed which may take some time.

 

[Dallamlad]

Thanks both, hopefully we'll see a bit more variety in Manchester going forward.

@Class 466 - I don't suppose you know if the Enviro400 EVs are a TfGM order to be operated by Stagecoach, or have the latter placed the order themselves, please?

Not sure if this is helpful to you but back in February the Bee Network Committee approved funding for
94 new electric buses for tranche 1 and tranche 2. The wording (link below) suggests the money will be passed to operators who will then put in their own orders.

Go to page 11, 1.27

https://democracy.greatermanchester-ca.gov.uk/documents/s31190/6%20BNC%2020240222%20Transport%20Capital%20Programme%20Report.pdf

 

[Class 466]

The EV’s won’t directly replace the B9’s which are expected to move to another depot at the end of the year. The electrification of Queens can only be done once the work on the roof is completed which may take some time.

What will replace them then? A temporary Enviro 400 fleet?

 

[xitz2012@gmail]

What will replace them then? A temporary Enviro 400 fleet?

Something tells me it could be E400Hs that’ll move over once tranche 3 kicks off

 

[507021]

Not sure if this is helpful to you but back in February the Bee Network Committee approved funding for
94 new electric buses for tranche 1 and tranche 2. The wording (link below) suggests the money will be passed to operators who will then put in their own orders.

Go to page 11, 1.27

https://democracy.greatermanchester-ca.gov.uk/documents/s31190/6%20BNC%2020240222%20Transport%20Capital%20Programme%20Report.pdf

I wasn't aware of that, very interesting. Thanks for sharing.

 

[WWH44L]

I wasn't aware of that, very interesting. Thanks for sharing.

I remember seeing plans in The Bolton News last June for phase 2 of electrifying the rest of Bolton depot but can’t seem to find the article. I did however take a screenshot (not very clear though.

 

[507021]

I remember seeing plans in The Bolton News last June for phase 2 of electrifying the rest of Bolton depot but can’t seem to find the article. I did however take a screenshot (not very clear though.

Thanks for that, it'll be interesting to see what Go Ahead go for.

 

[darylyates17]

Why is it that the 69 plate E400MMCs have not had the TfGM seat moquette and still have Stagecoach grey and blue leather?

 

[mancbus]

Will Sharston keep their EVs since they were funded by TfGM?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Jul 2024 ==

I do wonder how Metroline are going to acquire enough vehicles in the space of only 6 months.

I think most of their vehicles will stay with Stagecoach except for the Evs at Sharston since their tfgm funded. It’s just like how most of First and Go Ahead vehicles stayed with those companies. Stagecoach will probably transfer most vehicles to different depots in the UK.

 

[tomoufc]

There seem to be new (or refurbished?) busses in the bee network livery with bee network standard seats on the 192 service (which is currently Stagecoach). Can anyone tell me what they are and what the long term plans are for them, please?

Thank you

 

[pokemonsuper9]

There seem to be new (or refurbished?) busses in the bee network livery with bee network standard seats on the 192 service (which is currently Stagecoach). Can anyone tell me what they are and what the long term plans are for them, please?

Thank you

Today SK24 CMU is on the 192, you can tell by the "24" in the licence plate that it was registered this year, it's a new bus.
I'd imagine they'll transfer over and stay within GM when Stockport is taken over. https://bustimes.org/vehicles/scmn-11871

 

[MSO69]

Today SK24 CMU is on the 192, you can tell by the "24" in the licence plate that it was registered this year, it's a new bus.
I'd imagine they'll transfer over and stay within GM when Stockport is taken over. https://bustimes.org/vehicles/scmn-11871

all 24 plate bee network liveried E400MMC will move over to Stagecoach Queens Road once fleet capacity is increased within non bee network depots, Queend Road also has a bus shortage