Temporary Timetable 13th Dec - 7th Jan

[yorksrob]

it’s been the worst time of my 30 year+ career. Quite a few people at breaking point. Some have broken. Not helped by some of the stuff on this thread (not by you, of course). Personally I’m doing 70-80 hour weeks to try and keep the railway alive. I find it so frustrating that politics - yet again - is interfering with our ability to run a decent service for passengers and freight customers. And that isn’t just party politics, but union politics too, I’m afraid.

This whole episode will be a thick chapter in my book. No doubt i will need to engage lawyers.




Good for you, and thanks for the support.

I support the industry running the service. It must be a service for the whole network.

I've made my stance against this pathetic squatter 'government' clear. They need to be gone, first and foremost

 

[D6130]

I find it so frustrating that politics - yet again - is interfering with our ability to run a decent service for passengers and freight customers.

I felt like that forty years ago when I was offered unlimited overtime to plan the destruction of the Scottish rail network for the Serpell report. However, that was nothing compared to what you and your colleagues are going through now....and I really feel for you. The only way I could cope with it was by leaving train planning, taking six months off to go Interrailing and then re-joining the railway as a guard - and subsequently driver. Good luck and many thanks for keeping us posted.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

it’s been the worst time of my 30 year+ career. Quite a few people at breaking point. Some have broken. Not helped by some of the stuff on this thread (not by you, of course). Personally I’m doing 70-80 hour weeks to try and keep the railway alive. I find it so frustrating that politics - yet again - is interfering with our ability to run a decent service for passengers and freight customers. And that isn’t just party politics, but union politics too, I’m afraid.

This whole episode will be a thick chapter in my book. No doubt i will need to engage lawyers.

My feeling is that we are in a Margaret Thatcher / Arthur Scargill moment. That didn't end well for those doing the striking.

 

[Bald Rick]

I support the industry running the service.

The industry is, of course, no more than the collection of people who are employed to run it.

It must be a service for the whole network.

But what if there isn’t the resource, or the money, for that? Someone has to prioritise. If they don’t, then the whole thing shuts. It’s quite simple.

 

[Bletchleyite]

My feeling is that we are in a Margaret Thatcher / Arthur Scargill moment. That didn't end well for those doing the striking.

I do get that feeling. Given that Wales and Scotland have settled on what are quite low, sub inflationary rises of around 5%, that England is not doing so says to me that this is about Union crushing and not getting the railway back running again.

 

[yorksrob]

The industry is, of course, no more than the collection of people who are employed to run it.




But what if there isn’t the resource, or the money, for that? Someone has to prioritise. If they don’t, then the whole thing shuts. It’s quite simple.

And when those people are complicit in the cuts that would destroy my way of life, I have nothing in common with them.

Industry people determined to support my railway, my network, the Whitby lines, the Little North Western's they are my fellows. I'm with them all the way

 

[Baxenden Bank]

I do get that feeling. Given that Wales and Scotland have settled on what are quite low, sub inflationary rises of around 5%, that England is not doing so says to me that this is about Union crushing and not getting the railway back running again.

Or government crushing. It cuts both ways.

Lions led by donkeys.

 

[Bald Rick]

And when those people are complicit in the cuts that would destroy my way of life

What do you mean by ‘complicit’ ?

 

[The Planner]

What do you mean by ‘complicit’ ?

Those who dont unilaterally accept that the railway has to be kept in aspic or returned to the 50s

 

[yorksrob]

What do you mean by ‘complicit’ ?

People who've never once spoken out against the insinuations against the Whitby line, or who've never spoken up for the regional railway

 

[Bletchleyite]

Those who dont unilaterally accept that the railway has to be kept in aspic or returned to the 50s

Lopping branch lines permanently now would be very, very bad.

A national integrated public transport system including regional bus regulation would be very, very good. That would likely include some station and line closures but would overall provide a better public transport system for the UK for less money than is spent now.

As the latter is just too alien to British culture, I am with him. Nothing at all should close permanently until we can get the correct mentality to ensure proper connectivity with buses. Integrated timetable, integrated fares and the same rights on missed connections with both. And proper European style vehicle quality and staff professionalism.

 

[zwk500]

People who've never once spoken out against the insinuations against the Whitby line, or who've never spoken up for the regional railway

Give the conspiracy theory rhetoric a rest please. The Whitby line *Is* lightly used and financially unrewarding for the railway. However it's social value is well recognised and closure isn't going to happen.

Lopping branch lines permanently now would be very, very bad.

A national integrated public transport system including regional bus regulation would be very, very good. That would likely include some station and line closures but would overall provide a better public transport system for the UK for less money than is spent now.

As the latter is just too alien to British culture, I am with him. Nothing at all should close permanently until we can get the correct mentality to ensure proper connectivity with buses.

Agree with all of this. We need the political culture to shift so that we have one 'Public transport network'. However we're not there yet and so doing one thing without having the other on board is self-defeating.

 

[Peter Sarf]

it’s been the worst time of my 30 year+ career. Quite a few people at breaking point. Some have broken. Not helped by some of the stuff on this thread (not by you, of course). Personally I’m doing 70-80 hour weeks to try and keep the railway alive. I find it so frustrating that politics - yet again - is interfering with our ability to run a decent service for passengers and freight customers. And that isn’t just party politics, but union politics too, I’m afraid.

This whole episode will be a thick chapter in my book. No doubt i will need to engage lawyers.

...........................

I have felt for some time that there is a lot on your plate (and for other people like you). You can only do your best. It must be frustrating (exhausting) making plans and re-making plans. I just hope you remember to look after yourself.

One day the truth will come out.

The industry is, of course, no more than the collection of people who are employed to run it.

But what if there isn’t the resource, or the money, for that? Someone has to prioritise. If they don’t, then the whole thing shuts. It’s quite simple.

This is what people seem to want to ignore - there is no magic money tree.

It amazes me that during the worst of Covid many rail staff got paid to stay at home, many seemed to have nothing or little to do. But not all rail staff had it easy. Meanwhile nurses were working harder then ever. The government were even talking about re-openings. And now its getting trashed.

 

[43066]

It amazes me that during the worst of Covid many rail staff got paid to stay at home, many seemed to have nothing or little to do

Really?

Which railway staff got paid to stay at home, exactly?

 

[bramling]

Or government crushing. It cuts both ways.

Lions led by donkeys.

It is indeed surreal to be living, for the first time in my lifetime, with a government who seem to be devoid of any vision, but at the same time keen to be destructive *and* laughing at the population at the same time. Whilst the Major years were chaotic, at least there did seem to be some idea what to do.

Really?

Which railway staff got paid to stay at home, exactly?

There is of course the oft-quoted myth that the railway was dead for much of 2020. The few weeks after March 2020 might have been dead, however this didn’t last.

As a point of order, there were of course people shielding who were paid to stay at home, however this was the case across the entire workforce, by no means unique to the railway.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Really?

Which railway staff got paid to stay at home, exactly?

I don't think this is a sensible line to go down from either side, because to be honest I'd rather have been out working the railway than sitting at home bored on furlough. A free holiday is only any good if you can do anything with it. (I did enjoy the best of both worlds as my job is home based, but spending months at home in lockdown would just have been tedious in the extreme).

People moan about going to work, but really being unemployed and stuck at home is far worse even on the same money. Employment gives routine and self worth.

 

[43066]

Withdrawn.

 

[Starmill]

The news media need to stop sitting on their hands and start warning the public

Report what? I'm happy to be corrected but so far not a single organisation has gone on the record about this.

Surely it's Network Rail, train operators an RDG who are responsible for the communications here. The serious news media cannot publish unverified, anonymous comments from forum members.

 

[brad465]

If this timetable does end the railway (or some other form of strike action consequence), then I can certainly see a "you never know how important something is until it's gone" situation arising. Aside from mass unemployment from rail workers and highly reliant sectors, road traffic will get much worse, and on top of that demand for cars and petrol will rocket, which is not going to make overall inflation better, and I reckon the best profession for pay rises will be driving instructors for reasons that will be clear by now.

There will be many who don't use the railways for legitimate reasons, including disapproving of their cost and/or reliability. But their prevalence will have indirect benefits on non-rail users. As Stephen Fry once joked, "I really appreciate Sainsburys, as they help keep the s**m out of Waitrose."

 

[bramling]

Not many. And not many proper front line people. I seem to remember working throughout.

My place did have quite a few, at least to begin with, many were able return as they received clearance to work with mitigations in place. We are *still* suffering from all this in the form of outstanding annual leave. This shouldn’t come as any surprise in an industry with significant amount of shift work and associated health issues.

I certainly worked throughout, and there were some pretty rough days from late spring onwards, essentially trying to run a train set without the full set of bits in place to run it. And this was, of course, at the time when large numbers of people had nothing else to do but head to the beach.

 

[HSTEd]

Given the dispersed nature of the signalling system on the UK railway, there will be a hard floor where the service utterly collapses.

If you need people in four places to run a line - you can't run it with three people even if the amount of workload could notionally be handled by them if the service was somewhat cut or simplified.

Really highlights the potential advantages of ROCs (Rail Operating Centres) doesn't it ......

As it is, I think we ultimately have to try to be sanguine about this mess.
I don't think the existence of the railway itself is in significant jeopardy, but I think it will have to change to survive in the post strike world.

 

[Falcon1200]

I just can’t believe the railway is so reliant on overtime that without it they can only run 0600 to 1800, with significant parts of the network being closed.

I would have expected an overtime ban to result in something like services be restricted to 06:00 to 22:00 with some of the quieter lines not operating, disruptive yes, but not so much so that it makes the railway essentially useable for most commuters.

I agree. On lines with manual signalboxes, such as the Glasgow & South Western line as I mentioned earlier, being unable to staff even just one box could shut the route. However the same does not apply to signalling centres, staff rostered night shift will surely still be nightshift during the overtime ban and cannot simply be moved off their booked hours? And key panels/workstations can be kept going by reallocating qualified Signallers, if necessary?

This whole episode will be a thick chapter in my book. No doubt i will need to engage lawyers.

I look forward to your book, if you ever get time (and the lawyers' say-so) to write it.....

One of the reasons I retired in 2016 was the excessive overtime (including 7-turn nightshifts with the first and last shifts being 12 hours) needed to keep the job going, and staff reductions putting increasing pressure on those remaining. However, the situation has improved since then, the staffing reduction has been reversed, and the staff shortages, some within and some without management's control, have been addressed (it should be noted that I was not in a signalling role, however). But if the railway really is in such a desperate situation that 24 hour working is only achievable through overtime, NR has allowed its Signaller staffing position to deteriorate way beyond any reasonable or sensible level.

BTW thanks to all those still on the railway, in all roles, who are keeping the service going, despite the many issues.

 

[DDB]

it’s been the worst time of my 30 year+ career. Quite a few people at breaking point. Some have broken. Not helped by some of the stuff on this thread (not by you, of course). Personally I’m doing 70-80 hour weeks to try and keep the railway alive. I find it so frustrating that politics - yet again - is interfering with our ability to run a decent service for passengers and freight customers. And that isn’t just party politics, but union politics too, I’m afraid.

This whole episode will be a thick chapter in my book. No doubt i will need to engage lawyers.




Good for you, and thanks for the support.

Thank you for taking the time to give us the insight to what is going on behind the scenes though of course we will all always wish you could tell us more!

I'm trying to stay positive, maybe because my personal commuting circumstance is likely to get radically better at the timetable change next week and stands a chance of not being effected by the strike due to the reintroduction of services to a station on a ROC controlled route.

I'm hoping that reports that the government and the RMT are reported to have agreed to talk this weekend means they.both think they have something worth talking about. Also as there hasn't been much in the press this suggests both sides have chosen not to provide leaks to the press.

I do understand the concerns of people on lines with minor services as the medium term history of the railways in this country is if a line remained open with even a skeleton service after a period of decline (Beeching or similar) if the railway was still there service could and has been increased in a period of growth. Where a line was actually shut, even the simplist of reopening has proved incredibly expensive and difficult.

 

[yorksrob]

Report what? I'm happy to be corrected but so far not a single organisation has gone on the record about this.

Surely it's Network Rail, train operators an RDG who are responsible for the communications here. The serious news media cannot publish unverified, anonymous comments from forum members.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but posts upthread are already reporting TOC websites as warning of severe disruption over the whole period in question.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Dec 2022 ==

However it's social value is well recognised and closure isn't going to happen.

Maybe it's just this forum, however this isn't what I'm hearing.

However, - apologies to @Bald Rick . We all know who is to blame for the current mess and it isn't the industry.

 

[irish_rail]

It amazes me that during the worst of Covid many rail staff got paid to stay at home, many seemed to have nothing or little to do. But not all rail staff had it easy. Meanwhile nurses were working harder then ever. The government were even talking about re-openings. And now its getting trtrashed.

EH? What planet are you on mate? It was the rail staff forced to go out to work everyday (without decent PPE) whilst you were safely locked at home. We very nearly lost a young healthy colleague at Plymouth to covid so spare us the bull about nurses please.

As Yorksrob points out, its the "squatter governemnt" that's the issue here , and the county as a whole is in limbo until they are gone.

The railworkers are not the enemy here. What reasonable person can come up to a 4th year with no payrise and still afford to pay the bills when inflation is at 10 percent?!!

 

[Starmill]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but posts upthread are already reporting TOC websites as warning of severe disruption over the whole period in question.

Only one website, GWR. And it was only up for a few minutes or hours before being taken down again. Still nothing on the record...

It seems possible to me that TOCs and Network Rail are trying to keep it out of the public domain for as long as they think they can get away with, so as not to prejudice negotiations and put people off travelling if there's some kind of deal.

 

[yorksrob]

Only one website, GWR. And it was only up for a few minutes or hours before being taken down again. Still nothing on the record...

It seems possible to me that TOCs and Network Rail are trying to keep it out of the public domain for as long as they think they can get away with, so as not to prejudice negotiations and put people off travelling if there's some kind of deal.

Maybe, but I can't help but think that public reaction might force the Governments hand into settling.

 

[zwk500]

Maybe, but I can't help but think that public reaction might force the Governments hand into settling.

If they announce, the majority of the public will simply make alternative plans, not demand trains be run. Once they've made those plans, they won't be changing them this christmas. Many of them won't come back to the railways for a very, very long time.
The government wants the revenue. It's not going to scare everybody off until it has no other choice.

 

[Bald Rick]

People who've never once spoken out against the insinuations against the Whitby line, or who've never spoken up for the regional railway

I’m not sure how that’s complicit in the matter of trying to keep the railway going, but I’ll leave it there.

staff rostered night shift will surely still be nightshift during the overtime ban and cannot simply be moved off their booked hours?

Spares can be moved around (and are).

 

[Bread & cheese]

Only one website, GWR. And it was only up for a few minutes or hours before being taken down again. Still nothing on the record...

It seems possible to me that TOCs and Network Rail are trying to keep it out of the public domain for as long as they think they can get away with, so as not to prejudice negotiations and put people off travelling if there's some kind of deal.

18 December 2022 to 2 January 2023 RMT and TSSA overtime ban​

In addition to the strike days above, the RMT and TSSA have notified us that its members have been instructed not to book on for any overtime on these dates.

This also applies to RMT and TSSA members at Network Rail for the same period of time. Customers should expect severe disruption throughout this period.

We expect this decision to have a significant impact on the service levels we can provide throughout these two weeks, so customers should anticipate severe disruption.

https://www.southwesternrailway.com/plan-my-journey/industrial-action

Train services could also be disrupted from 18 December 2022 to 2 January 2023 as further industrial action impacts services.

https://www.gwr.com/strike