Telegraph: Staff Travel 'angers commuters'

[Legzr1]

I find it outrageous that anyone would find it outrageous, given the circumstances. It's already been mentioned that this privelege stems from the days when the majority of railway workers were working for buttons.

As an example, my father is 80 next year, he retired 16 years ago aged 63. He gave 42 years service to the railway, joining the gang at Ferryhill immediately after his national service. Naturally, he gets his pass every year with x amount of boxes but although he has no car and has never driven, he only uses half a dozen at best.

As the wages were so bad for a flat week, (everything was still cash in hand with a pay packet, even in the early/mid 90's! ) he literally had no choice but to have his name down for every Saturday night, just to make ends meet. So not only do you walk many miles per day for 5 days with very little reward, you then have to completely mess your weekend recovery time up just to put food on the table.

When early retirement was offered, he took it, he was absolutely worn out, all those years had taken their toll on him physically and mentally. The initial payout was fairly substantial, but again nothing like what would be received these days, I have been involved with people who have retired since from other professions who received more for little over 10 years service. We then have the railway pension which amounts to very little and when coupled with the state pension, he still struggles, nothing has changed.

When he retired in the mid 90's, it was staggering to him to find that 3 years later when I started work, I earned more than his flat week as a button marker in a clothing factory!! :roll:

So, after 42 years of service, a pittance in wages leaving him constantly struggling which continues to this day due to little in the way of pensions, why the hell should he have this one final perk taken away from him? Obviously, for some, there is a difference in generation here, wages are far better now and many will have absolutely no idea of the state of play in those days but someone please give me a good reason.

Excellent post


It's about time some people started thinking before posting methinks.

In the mid-80's I started on the railway earning a pittance - mates could make more in 2 days labouring than I could with 80 hours in (including 12 hour SAT and SUNS).
As I was in the middle of nowhere in deepest winter at 0230 on a sunday morning earning time and 3/4 X crap they were crawling home after another night of beer and women(alledgedlly).

Fast forward 20+ years and I happen to make decent money and have no need to work overtime - I owe them nothing and I owe the hand-wringing,'I pay tax, I do' brigade absolutely nothing.

You (anyone reading this) think railway staff are paid too much and receive far too many benefits?
Simple - stfu and join the industry.

Or,fight for your own rights (as colleagues of mine have over 100+ years).

I won't be giving away my hard-earned benefits unless there's a nice bag of silver being offered.

 

[sidmouth]

I find it outrageous that anyone would find it outrageous, given the circumstances. It's already been mentioned that this privelege stems from the days when the majority of railway workers were working button.

Totally agree and well put. I am equally outraged and angered both with the Daily Telegraph and previous posts on the subject. My dad worked 40 years on the railway, never owned a car and has well earned his staff benefits.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I should add that my dad, who is 80, never takes any complimentary refreshments except tea / coffee (he can travel first), and always offers to stand when ever the train is full. So zero cost.

 

[dk1]

Great posts Legzr1 & Sidmouth. Totally agree guys.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I find it outrageous that anyone would find it outrageous, given the circumstances. It's already been mentioned that this privelege stems from the days when the majority of railway workers were working for buttons.

As an example, my father is 80 next year, he retired 16 years ago aged 63. He gave 42 years service to the railway, joining the gang at Ferryhill immediately after his national service. Naturally, he gets his pass every year with x amount of boxes but although he has no car and has never driven, he only uses half a dozen at best.

As the wages were so bad for a flat week, (everything was still cash in hand with a pay packet, even in the early/mid 90's! ) he literally had no choice but to have his name down for every Saturday night, just to make ends meet. So not only do you walk many miles per day for 5 days with very little reward, you then have to completely mess your weekend recovery time up just to put food on the table.

When early retirement was offered, he took it, he was absolutely worn out, all those years had taken their toll on him physically and mentally. The initial payout was fairly substantial, but again nothing like what would be received these days, I have been involved with people who have retired since from other professions who received more for little over 10 years service. We then have the railway pension which amounts to very little and when coupled with the state pension, he still struggles, nothing has changed.

When he retired in the mid 90's, it was staggering to him to find that 3 years later when I started work, I earned more than his flat week as a button marker in a clothing factory!! :roll:

So, after 42 years of service, a pittance in wages leaving him constantly struggling which continues to this day due to little in the way of pensions, why the hell should he have this one final perk taken away from him? Obviously, for some, there is a difference in generation here, wages are far better now and many will have absolutely no idea of the state of play in those days but someone please give me a good reason.

This is the most moving post that I have read in the time that I have been a member on this forum and extremely well written to reflect a 42 year working life on the railways in all its extremely hard life experiances that was common in those days. I am 66 years of age and can bear out that a working life in many industries in the post-war period was hard for any younger forum members to be able to comprehend, compared with working conditions today.

Your father deserves a medal as well as any boxes that he was entitled to and if any posting could be made to prove the right to enjoy these benefits, it is this one that you have made. You have my total unqualified support.

 

[SS4]

While I agree with the sentiments posted many seem to have fallen into the trap of using personal experiences. Darandio's father no doubt deserves his boxes as do other examples here but it is impossible to tell if such stories are statistically representative which in turn introduces the dangers of extrapolation.

 

[blacknight]

Whats difference between rail staff get free travel & bank staff getting their mortgages at a reduced rate of interest both are just perks of the jobs.

 

[Darandio]

While I agree with the sentiments posted many seem to have fallen into the trap of using personal experiences. Darandio's father no doubt deserves his boxes as do other examples here but it is impossible to tell if such stories are statistically representative which in turn introduces the dangers of extrapolation.

I don't think using the personal experience is at all bad given the comments that have been posted previously. Obviously I was responding to the post that suggested people would be outraged at these people, like my father, who are seemingly leeching from the government. All I asked at the end was look at that story and give a damn good reason to take it from him.

 

[Butts]

Is it true that some ex-employees -ie very high up have unlimited access to anytime 1st Class Travel throughout the UK Rail Network that is completely unrestricted.

What level would an employee have had to achieve in order to qualify for this benefit ?

Is there anyone currently employed in the UK Rail Network who has this benefit ?

 

[185]

Loads of them. 'Status' passes - Gold, Silver, Bronze.

Usually shown to conductors with a look of contempt and a scowl.

 

[Butts]

Loads of them. 'Status' passes - Gold, Silver, Bronze.

Usually shown to conductors with a look of contempt and a scowl.

Do you have to empty the carriage when a "gold pass" appears

Seriously at what level are these handed out - which jobs?

I bet The Telegraph article overlooked these !!!

 

[es373]

Excellent post


It's about time some people started thinking before posting methinks.

In the mid-80's I started on the railway earning a pittance - mates could make more in 2 days labouring than I could with 80 hours in (including 12 hour SAT and SUNS).
As I was in the middle of nowhere in deepest winter at 0230 on a sunday morning earning time and 3/4 X crap they were crawling home after another night of beer and women(alledgedlly).

Fast forward 20+ years and I happen to make decent money and have no need to work overtime - I owe them nothing and I owe the hand-wringing,'I pay tax, I do' brigade absolutely nothing.

You (anyone reading this) think railway staff are paid too much and receive far too many benefits?
Simple - stfu and join the industry.

Or,fight for your own rights (as colleagues of mine have over 100+ years).

I won't be giving away my hard-earned benefits unless there's a nice bag of silver being offered.

Its these morons that we don't want in the industry!!!! Black - I'm pretty sure that was abolished a few years back and if they do get it, I would have thought itd be the managers etc so not every employee.
People will moan about rail staff - we are always being attacked. I'm in the depot and I do feel for the drivers and train managers/guards who put up with the constant bullcrap from managers and passengers (YES London Underground, believe it or not they are PASSENGERS not CUSTOMERS)..
This in its self should be a reason why we get the benefits that we all get.
I say f@@k the haters, its only a jealousy thing. Let them get on with their lives but I will always smile because I know that I've got what it takes and they simply don't!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I also think that railstaff benefits shouldn't be discussed on an open forum such as this; we all know the media watch this forum (and others) and it would only give them blood sucking idiots ammunition to gun us staff down.

 

[Stewart]

Whats difference between rail staff get free travel & bank staff getting their mortgages at a reduced rate of interest both are just perks of the jobs.

We could add

- NHS staff getting put to the front of the queue for operations
- School teachers getting first dibs on the best schools to send their children to
- BBC staff not having to pay the licence fee
- Traffic wardens getting petrol duty-free

All good analogies to the state subsidised rail worker getting perks that cost a pretty penny.

(Oh, and my dad worked hard too :roll: )

 

[AlterEgo]

I'm rail staff and I don't need to justify to anyone my salary or benefits.

For what it's worth and for clarity - my employer made a net contribution to the state last year of some £70 million.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I certainly don't begrudge my friend, who is an assistant radiologist with the NHS (so wholly tax-paid!) her right to park for free at the hospital when it costs me £1.50 an hour.

Her "perk" alone is worth more than any of our rail travel facilities!

Complaining of the pay and benefits of people in other industries is merely jealousy.

 

[Butts]

Loads of them. 'Status' passes - Gold, Silver, Bronze.

Usually shown to conductors with a look of contempt and a scowl.

I am intrigued to learn more about these priv priv's for want of a better expresssion

 

[Greenback]

We could add

- NHS staff getting put to the front of the queue for operations
- School teachers getting first dibs on the best schools to send their children to
- BBC staff not having to pay the licence fee
- Traffic wardens getting petrol duty-free

All good analogies to the state subsidised rail worker getting perks that cost a pretty penny.

(Oh, and my dad worked hard too :roll: )

They are terrible analogies. You have nothing to add to the debate and keep repeating the same point over and over. I could do the same:

The perks don't cost a pretty penny.

The benefits are not a drain on the public purse.

Rail staff travel does not increase subsidies.

The existence of the travel perks do not lead to higher fares.

but repeating something over and over again does not make it correct. In the absence of any other posts on any other topic since you joined. I am coming, reluctantly, to the conclusioon that you either a troll or, even worse, a Telegraph 'journalist'.

I will not bother to respond to you again on this topic, good bye!

 

[Geezertronic]

As an outsider looking in, I cannot see what the big deal is. I have worked at places and enjoyed the perks of the jobs (even going back many years to when I worked at McDonalds and was allowed a meal allowance at eating time ) so find it odd that people would have issues with it

 

[Greenback]

The only issue is the belief of some that, as the railway receives money from government, this automatically means that the money is being used to fund staff travel. Ergo, if staff travel is removed, much less money will be required, fares will fall, taxes will fall, the sun will shine every day and Englind will win the World Cup in 2014.

Back in the real world, no one knows whether the scheme actually generates revenue or not, but we can't let facts get in the way!

 

[Ferret]

As an outsider looking in, I cannot see what the big deal is. I have worked at places and enjoyed the perks of the jobs (even going back many years to when I worked at McDonalds and was allowed a meal allowance at eating time ) so find it odd that people would have issues with it

There isn't a big deal. All that's happened here is an appallingly bad journalist has written an inflammatory piece in an attempt to 'anger commuters'. The fact that the piece uses a questionable line of argument is neither here nor there of course as far as the journalist and indeed many of the people who read it are concerned. Such is the state of modern journalism today...

 

[michael769]

^ based on this thread I would say he has managed to anger rail staff more than commuters.

Seriously guys you really don'y need to justify your salary package to us. It's a matter between you and your employers.

 

[Aictos]

As an outsider looking in, I cannot see what the big deal is. I have worked at places and enjoyed the perks of the jobs (even going back many years to when I worked at McDonalds and was allowed a meal allowance at eating time ) so find it odd that people would have issues with it

Back when I used to work for them we were entitled to a discount off a meal at any McDonalds in the UK plus many other benefits - I remember one December I brought myself a meal at the discounted price not in uniform but starting work about 20 minutes later, a customer complained about the discounted price of the meal and demanded to know why I got such a discount - He was told promptly by one of the managers that as a employee, I was entitled to a discount as it's part of the benefits that staff get.

There's another piece on the newspaper's website by their Transport Editor - let's put it this way, I've now found another newspaper to use as toilet paper.

 

[Waverley125]

it's a ridiculous non-story, everyone, wherever they work in the service sector, gets some sort of benefit.

Shop workers get staff discount

As a barman i get free soft drinks on-shift & a few free pints afterwards.

Rail staff get discounted travel.

Toryraphy is a ****e newspaper, ignore them.

 

[AlterEgo]

I've now found another newspaper to use as toilet paper.

To go with the rest of them!

Honestly, the quality of journalism in this country is dreadful. I'm starting not to buy newspapers and rely more on the BBC.

 

[Butts]

To go with the rest of them!

Honestly, the quality of journalism in this country is dreadful. I'm starting not to buy newspapers and rely more on the BBC.

Can I recommend "The Independent" - "It is are you ?"

Mind you it is owned by a Russkie now

 

[Aictos]

Can I recommend "The Independent" - "It is are you ?"

Mind you it is owned by a Russkie now

That's a good read, another news outlet which I like is RT (Russia Today) which is a pretty good alternative to the BBC.

 

[Butts]

That's a good read, another news outlet which I like is RT (Russia Today) which is a pretty good alternative to the BBC.

Virgin and East Coast both give the indie out free in 1st Class not sure about the others.

 

[185]

I am intrigued to learn more about these priv priv's for want of a better expresssion

If I remember right they are 'awarded' to those with jobs graded MS4 and above.

There does not seem to be any distinction of TOC or non-toc managers ie. Network Brail et all.

 

[LexyBoy]

I'd rather pay a couple of pence extra on my ticket to travel on trains run by people who feel happy and appreciated in their job.

Funny how it's so often the same people who read the Torygraph & Mail who complain most about poor service when they shop at places like ASDA.

As XCDriver said,

some people know the cost of everything but the value of nothing

 

[Ferret]

To go with the rest of them!

Honestly, the quality of journalism in this country is dreadful. I'm starting not to buy newspapers and rely more on the BBC.

Trouble with the BBC is the left wing bias to some of their coverage. I find the Indy to be a half-decent read, and sometimes The Times as well. They really are the best of a bad bunch though.

 

[Butts]

If I remember right they are 'awarded' to those with jobs graded MS4 and above.

There does not seem to be any distinction of TOC or non-toc managers ie. Network Brail et all.

What sort of job is MS4 or above ??

Have any Rail UK Members got one and care to comment ?


What are the different benefits associated with each (bronze,silver,gold)?

 

[Greenback]

MS grades were, IIRC, management salaried staff, and were graded numerically like the clerical grades, which were CO1-5 with a CO5 being highest.

I was told that when a CO5 was promoted to MS1, they lost the right to overtime, shift allowances and so on, but had a far higher basic salary to compensate. I'm not sure how right this informationw as, it was what I was told by colleagues. Anything of MS4 and above was equivalent to god like status to an ordianry clerical officer!

The bronze, silver and gold passes only apply to safeguarded staff, as far as I know they are not available to people who started on the privatisation. My knowledge is limited, but I always they reflected both the length f service and the status of the post held on retirement.