Tail Lights On

[GB]

Certainly worthy of disciplinary action or retraining.

Are you serious? Words of advice is all that is needed.

 

[185143]

I've seen it a couple of times in service, admittedly mainly on branch lines where there had been a quick turnaround due to a delay. A quick word to (a very grateful) driver seemed more than sufficient IMO.

 

[Orchid]

Er...that's certainly not how it looks to me

It's just a simple request to find out how impactful having the lights on the wrong way around is. The railway is so ridiculously obsessed with safety it's almost amusing that they haven't thought to implement some sort of interlock between which cab is active and which way around the headlights are.

.

There are rare but perfectly legitimate reasons why tail lights on at the front with the key in are necessary - the main one being to warn oncoming drivers about an obstruction on their line or other emergency. This is especially important on stock without hazard warning lights (flashing headlights - not the yellow side lights.)

I doubt the train wouod have got out of the tunnels at New St without the driver realising, the red glow would be a give away...

 

[lincolnshire]

Since when have the tw@ter team been able to contact the drivers?

This is just another example of spotters sticking their noses in trying to get staff in trouble and then bragging about it to all their matesmon antiRailUK!

Guess you might be lucky if the twitter team knows what he,s on about even, as most probably in an office and might not even work of the company.

Also I see he,s a railway telecoms apprentice so you would have thought he should know how to properly report the matter in the proper way.
That would then lead to a full name and work location etc of the person reporting it.

One day it might be a driver reporting him doing something trackside.

There are times when you should report something and times when to look the other way against getting someone into hot water over accidentally forgetting something it can happen to anyone as we are all not perfect.

 

[Johncleesefan]

I don't see the problem that he reported it, he has safety concerns for track workers and could potentially be saving a life/lives.

 

[Jonfun]

I'd imagine they'll have the phone number for Control who'll get the message through.

No need for a phone number, they sit next to them!

 

[185]

Are you serious? Words of advice is all that is needed.

The issue as stated isn't so much about the reds but, a scenario of lack of a headlight in darkness.

For those of us who have a PTS last thing any of us would want whilst trackside is someone approaching at >100 with no headlight at night time.

In an industry where all of us get please explains for minor things, this would in my opinion be somewhat more serious than a talking to. It should be obvious anyway if the speed boards do not light up on approach.

 

[GB]

I don't see the problem that he reported it, he has safety concerns for track workers and could potentially be saving a life/lives.

Thats fine, but then why come on here afterwards to spill the beans?

 

[lincolnshire]

I don't see the problem that he reported it, he has safety concerns for track workers and could potentially be saving a life/lives.

Well it was 17-19 the time of his post on here so if he posted it on here as soon as he had done his twittering the it would be dark and staff line side would not be working in the dark without working under protection from the signalman under a blockage of the line for them to work. As staff would know the train directions and also the driver would realise that in the dusk/dark he would have is lights on at the front.

 

[Johncleesefan]

Yeh maybe but the guy reporting it may not know p way clock off a certain time/ need possession protection after hours. And the train could of been travelling on a bi directional line.

 

[lincolnshire]

Yeh maybe but the guy reporting it may not know p way clock off a certain time/ need possession protection after hours. And the train could of been travelling on a bi directional line.

Look at is name on here XCTurbostar, Railway Engineer and at the bottom of his post its Railway Telecoms Apprentice , so he should have some idea how staff work line side as if not already one day he will be working there as railway telecoms cables don,t run down the roadside.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Gawd almighty, I've lost count the number of times I've forgotten to do it or changed them to whites during setup and then do a blind & change them back again!

Or doing a triple Guildford - Ascot, you change ends so many times, it's odds on that you'll do it once during the day. A simple flick of the lights or pat on the head is the tip off that you have reds on the front & it's easy to do with 456s as they don't have the tell-tale that the 455s or TMS warnings at appear on 458/450s.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

It's just a simple request to find out how impactful having the lights on the wrong way around is. The railway is so ridiculously obsessed with safety it's almost amusing that they haven't thought to implement some sort of interlock between which cab is active and which way around the headlights are.

Just because something hasn't been implemented doesn't mean "that they haven't thought" of it. It's far more likely that it's been decided that retro fitting entire fleets of trains with this modification to solve an issue which happens extremely rarely just isn't cost effective.

 

[andrewkeith5]

Just because something hasn't been implemented doesn't mean "that they haven't thought" of it. It's far more likely that it's been decided that retro fitting entire fleets of trains with this modification to solve an issue which happens extremely rarely just isn't cost effective.

Possibly, but it can't be the most difficult modification to make - if it really was important.

 

[XCTurbostar]

Thanks for all your comments.

First of all I do a lot of survey work so as mentioned here, safety is a concern for me. I was not at all trying to get the driver in trouble.

Twitter is a good way to talk to the TOCs, whether this was taken any further I'm not too concerned about. If something was to happen further up the line involving railway staff, I would be happy to say that I did my bit to notify the TOC by the quickest means.

I watched the train head towards Proof House Junction on Platform 10 and it appeared that the train coming the other way did not change its headlights to give the driver a sign or anything. The time was 17:02.

Thanks,
Ross
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Guess you might be lucky if the twitter team knows what he,s on about even, as most probably in an office and might not even work of the company.

Also I see he,s a railway telecoms apprentice so you would have thought he should know how to properly report the matter in the proper way.
That would then lead to a full name and work location etc of the person reporting it.

One day it might be a driver reporting him doing something trackside.

There are times when you should report something and times when to look the other way against getting someone into hot water over accidentally forgetting something it can happen to anyone as we are all not perfect.

I absolutely agree with you.
I have not formally reported this as I believe the concern was minor. Having said that I would report this directly have it have been a lot more serious.

I'm not at all out to get anyone and believe me if I reported everything trackside I saw that was unsafe. I don't think id ever go trackside!

Thanks,
Ross

 

[dk1]

I forget now & again & my reply if on the very rare occasion my manager enquirers is "I'm human" for which he laughs. As said, another driver will flash you or may use GSMR to tell siggy who has a quiet word with you. No big deal.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

The odd 319 would come out of the turnback at St Albans with 2 reds on the front - a smile at the driver with a point at the front end , with a circular motion would get the message over no problem....(or a quick walk to the front and a polite message)..

Being now retired - but a whacking the reds on the front to an approaching train , with some trouble ahead was (in my books) , a good way of alerting another driver to some issue he /she did not want to come across. I recall some incidents being avoided by this sensible approach.

Given up counting the number of times over the years when I have reported trains with white lights on the rear , or in some cases, (reds or whites) on intermediate units. Old school training - along with the message of always observing passing trains - or never turn your back on a a departing train you have despatched.

 

[455driver]

I must remember to put a full report in next time some prat probes the wrong wire in the trackside cabinet and puts the signal in front of me back to danger for a split second (3 times this year) rather than accept the hand in the air 'sorry' gesture, I might get our apprentice in the sh#t one day!

Every time I convince myself we are a family and must look out for each other we get a post like this just to remind me it is actually a them and us situation and one upmanship is where it is at!
It's just a pity us drivers can't jump on twitter or Facebook to drop people in the sh#t!

 

[Antman]

I must remember to put a full report in next time some prat probes the wrong wire in the trackside cabinet and puts the signal in front of me back to danger for a split second (3 times this year) rather than accept the hand in the air 'sorry' gesture, I might get our apprentice in the sh#t one day!

Every time I convince myself we are a family and must look out for each other we get a post like this just to remind me it is actually a them and us situation and one upmanship is where it is at!
It's just a pity us drivers can't jump on twitter or Facebook to drop people in the sh#t!

I can't help feeling that you are being a tad overly defensive, of course it's not only train drivers that can be reported through social media

 

[neilb62]

We've all done it and it's hardly a biggie, normally a flash of the cab light and tapping your head (for headlight) gives the forgetful driver a nod. Bigger issue if you have something like a 31 where the tail light switches are in the other cab!

 

[SPADTrap]

Whenever I go through a neutral section with certain units the headlights go off. Some of those are on the approach to crossings.

 

[driver_m]

Whenever I go through a neutral section with certain units the headlights go off. Some of those are on the approach to crossings.

Forgot about that. Our AC locos used to do that too. 185 would be form 1'ing all us AC drivers for not having headlights for a few seconds.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

Whenever I go through a neutral section with certain units the headlights go off. Some of those are on the approach to crossings.

And some of those crossings will have had wig-wag lights which didn't remotely meet the light intensity specifications.

That terrifies me - how many TOC drivers, guards and engineering staff, how many Network Rail permanent way, S&T, electrification and operations people, and how many contractors used level crossings where it was physically impossible to tell if the lights were flashing within a remotely realistic stopping distance.

The Beech Hill RAIB report confirmed the crossing there, which highlighted these safety issues, had in at least one respect, been out of compliance since 1969 and it could have been unsafe at or before that time.

That's an enormously more significant issue than departing with tail lights showing in the direction of travel, something that would be picked up on almost immediately by another driver.

I would suggest, for an apprentice signal tech, they need to be thinking about what else British Rail, Railtrack and Network Rail have missed for 44+ years, that constitutes a real, clear, present safety hazard to staff and passengers, and less about minor issues.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

Possibly, but it can't be the most difficult modification to make - if it really was important.

I'm not sure it is hugely important, OP claims to have seen more tail lamps in the "wrong" phase this year than I have and I'm a driver. Maybe he's just unlucky or something, but it's a trivial issue which happens so rarely I just can't see how modifying an entire fleet to stop it happening would be cost effective. You say it's not the most difficult modification to make, I'd say it's a time consuming one as you'd probably have to dismantle the driving desk of every unit you wanted to modify before you messed about with wiring. Doing that to hundreds if not thousands of cabs? It could take years and divert resources from where they are really needed.

Yes displaying the correct lights is important (you don't need to change over for shunts of less than a quarter of a mile by the way) but we don't need to scream AUTOMATION AUTOMATION AUTOMATION whenever someone sees something out of the ordinary.

 

[Radedamer]

There are rare but perfectly legitimate reasons why tail lights on at the front with the key in are necessary - the main one being to warn oncoming drivers about an obstruction on their line or other emergency. This is especially important on stock without hazard warning lights (flashing headlights - not the yellow side lights.)

I doubt the train wouod have got out of the tunnels at New St without the driver realising, the red glow would be a give away...

That's interesting. I can't have been the only one wondering about it.

 

[carriageline]

Talk about a mountain out of a molehill. It is a shame how people feel the need to report things, we all make mistakes and sometimes letting them know in a gentle way, (even better if not on a recorded line!) without anyone else finding out.

I once had a trainee signaller who went to advise control of a driver who had reds on the front, he quickly got a clip round the ear and explained the ways of the railway!! The amount of times I could of upset a driver (COA etc) and a sorry and gentle explanation was all that was needed.

 

[Llanigraham]

Talk about a mountain out of a molehill. It is a shame how people feel the need to report things, we all make mistakes and sometimes letting them know in a gentle way, (even better if not on a recorded line!) without anyone else finding out.

I once had a trainee signaller who went to advise control of a driver who had reds on the front, he quickly got a clip round the ear and explained the ways of the railway!! The amount of times I could of upset a driver (COA etc) and a sorry and gentle explanation was all that was needed.

Quite.
It gets passed up the line on the interbox phone until they get somewhere it can be sorted out, often by another message to the station staff to tell them.

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

We've all done it and it's hardly a biggie, normally a flash of the cab light and tapping your head (for headlight) gives the forgetful driver a nod. Bigger issue if you have something like a 31 where the tail light switches are in the other cab!

I have never done it in all my 25 minutes of driving - assuming driver for a fiver journeys count

 

[HarleyDavidson]

To all concerned.

I wish to apologise for this odd condition. It's called the human condition, which means that every so often I may forget something or make a small error.

I would like to apologise for not being perfect & not being a mindless, managerial automaton.

I mean who'd want to end up like a borg.

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

To all concerned.

I wish to apologise for this odd condition. It's called the human condition, which means that every so often I may forget something or make a small error.

I would like to apologise for not being perfect & not being a mindless, managerial automaton.

I mean who'd want to end up like a borg.

Me - get to spend time with Seven of nine