Tail Lights On

[edwin_m]

Requiring the driver not to answer calls when the train is moving sounds like a case of disproprtionate response to an incident. In other words, something happened and the investigating manager decided that this rule would prevent the same thing happening again, not really thinking about whether it was appropriate in the light of the frequency/seriousness of the incident, or whether it worsened other hazards. Also known as throwing the baby out with the bathwater or covering one's backside.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Are there any stations where the signallers often contact the trains in the area? if there are it probably wouldn't take long for delays to build up if such a rule existed there

 

[TDK]

Last couple of times ive forgotten to change the front illumination ive been advised via GSMR after a passing train has advised the signaller. It was commonplace to flash headlights a few years ago but many are worried this will cause the oncoming train to make an emergency brake application such is the fear of doing anything not by the book these days.

I would never contact the signaller I would flash my headlight/taillight failing that I would buzz up the guard to contact the guard on the other train to inform the driver of the error, if it was DOO the maybe I would contact the signaller.

 

[ComUtoR]

Whether or not it is required it is still a sensible method of working.

I must admit that I rarely answer the radio whilst on the move. If it is that important you would be stopped. In the now older days of CSR you could hear the Signaler trying to talk to you whilst you were bringing the train to stand. Suffice to say that wasn't always the most pleasant of experiences...
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I would never contact the Signaler I would flash my headlight/taillight

I thought there was a universal hand gesture for "reds up" I was on a LADD day once when the trainer asked what would you do if you saw a train coming towards you with its reds up. I think about 90% of the room made the gesture.

 

[TDK]

The GSM-R is a very versatile tool, the signaller can send a message for the driver to contact them, they can with the updated version of 3.5 send a text message where the driver acknowledges the message without speaking to the signaller to let them know they have received the message. So for instance, the signaller sends a message "headlights" the driver then changes the headlights over and acknowledges they have received and understood the message.

All this company policy of not contacting anyone including the guard on the move is way over the top. If there is any evidence that more incidents have occurred when this is taking place then there is a reason to restrict it but where is the evidence?

There are many occasions when a guard needs to speak to a driver and visa versa and this is to ensure the safe running of the train and also the passing of information for the passengers.

 

[455driver]

I work for a TOC with this instruction in place. I think it's best I don't go into it on here as walls have ears and suchlike. But trust me when I say no driver I have spoke to thinks it is a good thing. But rules are rules and we have to abide by them

I don't work for a TOC with this silly rule but I understand it was because a driver used a comms device (CSR I think it was) as an excuse for him effing up citing it as a distraction.

Why he couldn't have been professional enough to ignore it until safe to answer (or man enough to accept the eff up) is beyond me.

That is my 4th hand understanding of the situation at one such TOC.

 

[SPADTrap]

The GSM-R is a very versatile tool, the signaller can send a message for the driver to contact them, they can with the updated version of 3.5 send a text message where the driver acknowledges the message without speaking to the signaller to let them know they have received the message. So for instance, the signaller sends a message "headlights" the driver then changes the headlights over and acknowledges they have received and understood the message.

They can send stuff like 'headlights'?! That wasn't in our brief for GSM-R V3.5! Berth activated messages (Voice recorded general broadcasts which require an 'ST' acknowledgement if understood and accepted by the driver) for low adhesion, non flashing emergency indicators, animals on the line and other signalling non safety events was briefed but nothing about custom 'text' messages!

 

[MisterT]

Interesting to read how GSM-R is used in other countries. In The Netherlands, we are allowed to answer GSM-R calls while on the move, except when we are running at less than 40 km/h. Same for normal phone calls.
Texts are not used in The Netherlands.
Texts are used in Germany though. I received a text message via GSM-R once, while pulling the sleeper into the station of Emmerich, just across the border in Germany. High priority message. It contained the match results of the local football team.

 

[AnonymousUser1]

If on the line side I would stare meaningfully at the front of the train, and point to my head and tail. That has worked in the past.

like making the 'lift' signal to none cranes with beacons left on ...

 

[Zoidberg]

like making the 'lift' signal to none cranes with beacons left on ...

That has me completely confuzzled!

 

[dave87016]

a good few years ago I was spotting at the far end of the platform at London Bridge I think it was ( could have been Waterloo) , a train was departing and tail lights on at the front I tried to point out to the driver he gave me a weird look then a couple of moments after passing me he realised what message I was trying to get to him at this point the entire front carriage had cleared the platform the driver gave a good blast of the horn and put his thumb up out of his window

 

[scotraildriver]

Are there any stations where the signallers often contact the trains in the area? if there are it probably wouldn't take long for delays to build up if such a rule existed there

RETB lines require constant dialogue between driver and signaller when on the move. For example to "loop clear" a station, advise clear of a crossing, or to report anything else that might be going on.

 

[carriageline]

They can send stuff like 'headlights'?! That wasn't in our brief for GSM-R V3.5! Berth activated messages (Voice recorded general broadcasts which require an 'ST' acknowledgement if understood and accepted by the driver) for low adhesion, non flashing emergency indicators, animals on the line and other signalling non safety events was briefed but nothing about custom 'text' messages!

Pretty much what we've been told. We can can only use it on specific things (as you have said!). But personally, I'm not sure how much time it will save or if it's the right step, but that's for another thread l.

 

[FordFocus]

Yep really. We can't answer whilst the train is moving.
We are not even allowed to answer the Cab to Cab or staff call function.
I don't agree with it. But that's how it is

I can understand the GSM-R on the move at some TOCs because they can be working intensive services on complex lines with regular cautionary aspects.

The cab to cab and staff call functions been banned is something I don't agree with. What happens in the event of a problem been on a train or an urgent message from control been relayed for a guard?

The GSM-R can send broadcast messages from the signaller once the train has reached a certain mast or area. It's now been used to pass on safety related messages such as trespassers and low adhesion areas without the need to stop the train provided the driver acknowledges and understands the message using a button the head unit.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Can guards access the GSM-R from their Guard's Panels?

 

[ComUtoR]

Not sure on guards panels but GSMR is cab equipment for the Driver. However; if the Guard has access to the cab then yes they could access the GSMR.

 

[tsr]

Can guards access the GSM-R from their Guard's Panels?

I'm not aware of any stock where this is possible. Panels with handsets are usually only for announcements/PIS/cab-to-cab communications. Certainly nothing I sign has this feature. I'm happy to be corrected.

 

[plymothian]

GSM-R is only installed in cabs, if the guard has access to a cab they have access to GSM-R, but it won't be registered on the network, so any communication has be initiated by the user and the train identified verbally; the signaller will not receive the train ID in the box.

 

[XCTurbostar]

Evening all,

I have just observed a CrossCountry 170 (170520) which went ECS to Derby from Birmingham New Street 9/10 Sidings with Taillights on the front when moving. I have notified CrossCountry on Twitter and they responded with a "we're looking into this" answer.

This is is the 4th time in the last few months that I have seen this, the other times were all in Scotland (2 156s on the Shotts line and 1 380 on North Berwick Branch)

Is this a serious problem? If so is there a standard which specifically outlines the hazard this clearly is?

Thanks,
Ross

 

[FordFocus]

Could cause issues for track workers on the direction of the train but this is New Street in evening peak. A driver the opposite way will simply flash their headlights a couple of times and the "offending" driver will immediately correct their mistake. It's no big deal and can easily be done in times of having to change ends quickly or getting distracting from your thought process with a question from a passenger.

 

[G136GREYHOUND]

Evening all,

I have just observed a CrossCountry 170 (170520) which went ECS to Derby from Birmingham New Street 9/10 Sidings with Taillights on the front when moving. I have notified CrossCountry on Twitter and they responded with a "we're looking into this" answer.

This is is the 4th time in the last few months that I have seen this, the other times were all in Scotland (2 156s on the Shotts line and 1 380 on North Berwick Branch)

Is this a serious problem? If so is there a standard which specifically outlines the hazard this clearly is?

Thanks,
Ross

Depending on where you work, huge bollocking and massive grief for the driver

 

[asylumxl]

Could cause issues for track workers on the direction of the train but this is New Street in evening peak. A driver the opposite way will simply flash their headlights a couple of times and the "offending" driver will immediately correct their mistake. It's no big deal and can easily be done in times of having to change ends quickly or getting distracting from your thought process with a question from a passenger.

If the driver realises later on/other drivers flash their headlights, good. If not and someone notifies him/her via the relevant means, good.

 

[Zoidberg]

I think that there was a thread fairly recently discussing the issue of showing red lights to the front.

I cannot search for it very well on my mobile but maybe you'll be able to find it.

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=122314

Here we go

That's the one, ta.

 

[telstarbox]

Are the lights not 'interlocked' with the transmission then?

 

[Philip Phlopp]

Are the lights not 'interlocked' with the transmission then?

Some, not all and not the majority.

For many DMUs out there, the lights are barely interlocked with the electrics - lose your rear engine or alternator and you'll lose your tail lights.

 

[lincolnshire]

The Twitter Police? It's hardly a major issue someone would be severely reprimanded for.

If the driver realises later on/other drivers flash their headlights, good. If not and someone notifies him/her via the relevant means, good.

Agree with the above quote.

Also what time of day was it as the post is timed at 17-19 and its dark then and there should be no staff line side in the dark working with a lookout protection.

How many cars do you see driving down the road with no lights? the ones you see soon realise when other drivers flash them, some still drive on without switching them on. Think its a bit more important on the road than the railway.

 

[455driver]

The Twitter Police? It's hardly a major issue someone would be severely reprimanded for.

If the driver realises later on/other drivers flash their headlights, good. If not and someone notifies him/her via the relevant means, good.

Since when have the tw@ter team been able to contact the drivers?

This is just another example of spotters sticking their noses in trying to get staff in trouble and then bragging about it to all their matesmon antiRailUK!

 

[185]

Understandable for shunting but running with the wrong set of lamps on the front, assuming with no headlamp puts anyone who is trackside at risk... Certainly worthy of disciplinary action or retraining.

That said, if reds are accidentally lit in addition to a headlamp, that is less of an issue in my book.

 

[andrewkeith5]

Since when have the tw@ter team been able to contact the drivers?

This is just another example of spotters sticking their noses in trying to get staff in trouble and then bragging about it to all their matesmon antiRailUK!

Er...that's certainly not how it looks to me

It's just a simple request to find out how impactful having the lights on the wrong way around is. The railway is so ridiculously obsessed with safety it's almost amusing that they haven't thought to implement some sort of interlock between which cab is active and which way around the headlights are.

This thread is just someone concerned that there might potentially be something unsafe going on, letting the company know and asking the community their thoughts. It's not a personal attack on the driver - it's up to someone at XC to decide if it's important enough to bother investigating, not you.

You might not like it, but we live in a world where information is instant and we are constantly taught to be paranoid about pretty much everything - especially on the railways - so it's natural that people are going to report when they see something out of the ordinary.

 

[Carntyne]

Since when have the tw@ter team been able to contact the drivers?

This is just another example of spotters sticking their noses in trying to get staff in trouble and then bragging about it to all their matesmon antiRailUK!

I'd imagine they'll have the phone number for Control who'll get the message through.

Don't mind spotters pointing something out if it's not right If I'm honest.