SWR fine turned court case

[swt_passenger]

I don't believe so , I followed the option above that where it says I can do it through the website. I've attached the email i received confirming they had my appeal and email.

Ah ok, I‘m sorry I must have read that without noticing the web address. Please disregard my earlier question.

 

[chillibiscuit]

Please see attached a letter sent to me by emailing confirming they had received my appeal.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Jan 2024 ==

Do you have any documentary evidence that you submitted an appeal via the correct appeal process?

This is very important. If you appealed the Penalty Fare properly, then as of 21 days after the appeal it is no longer legal for you to be prosecuted.

It is imperative that you search for any evidence you have to show you appealed it via the proper appeal process.

Do not do this, it is irrelevant and can't help you at this stage of proceedings.

I have this document i received via email which confirms they had my appeal.

 

[Sultan]

Assuming that the Notice number on the appeal update letter is the same as that on page 7-9 of the latest correspondence, then to me it looks like SWT may not have linked the two.

@island would be correct in that a valid appeal stops a criminal prosecution from happening, and it turns into a civil matter. But please don't take my word on it's own on this. I've only learnt this over the last few months from far more learned people who will no doubt soon say if this is the case and what to do.

 

[WesternLancer]

Please see attached a letter sent to me by emailing confirming they had received my appeal.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Jan 2024 ==


I have this document i received via email which confirms they had my appeal.

so did you ever hear anything further from them about the status of your Appeal (in any form - e-mail / letter / e-mail in spam etc)?

as if not surely the chance exists to sent that to SWR and say you were surprised to receive court papers as as far as you were aware you had made an Appeal and never been informed of the outcome / were still waiting for the outcome / had assumed the outcome had been successful.

 

[chillibiscuit]

Assuming that the Notice number on the appeal update letter is the same as that on page 7-9 of the latest correspondence, then to me it looks like SWT may not have linked the two.

@island would be correct in that a valid appeal stops a criminal prosecution from happening, and it turns into a civil matter. But please don't take my word on it's own on this. I've only learnt this over the last few months from far more learned people who will no doubt soon say if this is the case and what to do.

Okay , good to have a glimmer of hope. Is there anywhere I can find this stated?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Jan 2024 ==

so did you ever hear anything further from them about the status of your Appeal (in any form - e-mail / letter / e-mail in spam etc)?

as if not surely the chance exists to sent that to SWR and say you were surprised to receive court papers as as far as you were aware you had made an Appeal and never been informed of the outcome / were still waiting for the outcome / had assumed the outcome had been successful.

Not that i know of , there's always a chance i missed something.

 

[Starmill]

The Railways (Penalty Fares) Regulations 2018

These Regulations make provision for the charging of penalty fares for the failure to produce, when required to do so, a ticket or other authority authorising a person to travel by train or to be present in a compulsory ticket area at a station.

www.legislation.gov.uk

If you scroll down to Part 3 that includes the full text of the rules relating to appeals. It's fairly long and written in "legal" language but it could assist you to dig through it yourself and then return and ask any questions you may have?

 

[island]

I'll bow to @island saying not to revisit Clandon station to see what signage there but personally it is something I would do in your position, as I'm assuming it is a station you regularly use. It doesn't mean I would use it, but it would at least mean I have it.

The reason I say it's not relevant to the matter at hand is because invalid signage can stop a Penalty Fare from being valid (I am not commenting on the validity of the signage at that particular station, as I've not seen it) but cannot stop a prosecution, which is the stage we find ourselves at.

It may be useful knowledge for the future but there would be little use to making a special journey to check it.

Is there anywhere I can find this in writing?

Section 11 (3), Railways Penalty Fares Regulations 2018.

 

[chillibiscuit]

The Railways (Penalty Fares) Regulations 2018

These Regulations make provision for the charging of penalty fares for the failure to produce, when required to do so, a ticket or other authority authorising a person to travel by train or to be present in a compulsory ticket area at a station.

www.legislation.gov.uk

If you scroll down to Part 3 that includes the full text of the rules relating to appeals. It's fairly long and written in "legal" language but it could assist you to dig through it yourself and then return and ask any questions you may have?

Thank you so much i'll start digging around!

The reason I say it's not relevant to the matter at hand is because invalid signage can stop a Penalty Fare from being valid (I am not commenting on the validity of the signage at that particular station, as I've not seen it) but cannot stop a prosecution, which is the stage we find ourselves at.

It may be useful knowledge for the future but there would be little use to making a special journey to check it.

Section 11 (3), Railways Penalty Fares Regulations 2018.

I'm not sure if I'm being blind but I'm unable to find this in the legislation. After searching thoroughly i found an email saying my appeal was unsuccessful in my spam . Please see attached.

 

[Sultan]

The reason I say it's not relevant to the matter at hand is because invalid signage can stop a Penalty Fare from being valid (I am not commenting on the validity of the signage at that particular station, as I've not seen it) but cannot stop a prosecution, which is the stage we find ourselves at.

It may be useful knowledge for the future but there would be little use to making a special journey to check it.

Section 11 (3), Railways Penalty Fares Regulations 2018.

Thanks for the learning. I was under (perhaps) an incorrect assumption that if the penalty fare could have been deemed invalidly issued, it would automatically revoke a court proceeding.

But considering the OP has now shown us an appeals acknowledgment email from SWT, perhaps this is the best avenue to pursue, assuming there is a link between it and the subsequent court proceeding letter.

 

[KirkstallOne]

Not that i know of , there's always a chance i missed something.

You should still be able to log on to the Penalty Services site and it should show you the status of the appeal.

I see you have found the rejection email now.

 

[Haywain]

After searching thoroughly i found an email saying my appeal was unsuccessful in my spam

In which case I would advise that you contact SWR urgently, explain that you missed this email and ask if they will accept your payment of the outstanding PF.

 

[WesternLancer]

After searching thoroughly i found an email saying my appeal was unsuccessful in my spam . Please see attached.

Ok thanks - so this is the nub of the problem - it has of course escalated because you never saw this languishing in spam and thus never took it to next stage Appeal or paid it....I fear matters to do with correct signage wording for Penalty Fares etc are red herrings now - as it is being referred to court etc.

Option now, I think, to urgently engage with SWR in a fairly grovelling way to see if they will drop the court action and allow you to settle the matter without it needing to go to court (as I think @Fawkes Cat suggested / outlined above), on the basis that you were wholly unaware that your Appeal had been rejected.

SWR may be happy to do this (as it's a better outcome for them too) but you can expect to pay more than had you paid at the failed appeal stage given they have had to spend time chasing this and preparing court papers etc so have spent more money of this.

The fact it was in your spam is of course v bad luck.

EDIT - I see the below advice from @island #45 which is very helpful. I had overlooked the fact when making this post that the fact that the Appeal meant it should not have gone to court at all, which is addressed by @island.

Good luck with this as things progress.

 

[chillibiscuit]

You should still be able to log on to the Penalty Services site and it should show you the status of the appeal.

I see you have found the rejection email now.

Yes , very unfortunate that its has taken this for me to find it and i'm kicking myself. Does this mean it's no longer an avenue i can pursue ?

In which case I would advise that you contact SWR urgently, explain that you missed this email and ask if they will accept your payment of the outstanding PF.

I can only find the email on the letter. Is there a number i can call?

 

[WesternLancer]

In which case I would advise that you contact SWR urgently, explain that you missed this email and ask if they will accept your payment of the outstanding PF.

Just seen this from Haywain - v much agree with this advice. If they would accept the Penalty Fare payment (without additional costs on top) that would seem like a v good outcome. Even if with some costs on top that would also be a good outcome under the circs - better than a court prosecution anyway IMHO

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Jan 2024 ==

Yes , very unfortunate that its has taken this for me to find it and i'm kicking myself. Does this mean it's no longer an avenue i can pursue ?

I can only find the email on the letter. Is there a number i can call?

Better to do it in writing (risk of by phone the person who answers might just say no), cite all the relevant case numbers etc. If there is a number someone can advise you could try but always better to have a written record - post up your draft wording of an e-mail here so people can check it - of course you have a small number of days given the court date to get what you want to say to them as best as it can be, but the message will not need to be very long after all.

 

[chillibiscuit]

Just seen this from Haywain - v much agree with this advice. If they would accept the Penalty Fare payment (without additional costs on top) that would seem like a v good outcome. Even if with some costs on top that would also be a good outcome under the circs - better than a court prosecution anyway IMHO

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Jan 2024 ==


Better to do it in writing (risk of by phone the person who answers might just say no), cite all the relevant case numbers etc. If there is a number someone can advise you could try but always better to have a written record - post up your draft wording of an e-mail here so people can check it - of course you have a small number of days given the court date to get what you want to say to them as best as it can be, but the message will not need to be very long after all.

Yes this definitely seems like what I will be doing. I am unsure of the correct number to call? and what their working hours are as i would ideally want to get in contact with them right away.

 

[island]

Please see attached a letter sent to me by emailing confirming they had received my appeal.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Jan 2024 ==


I have this document i received via email which confirms they had my appeal.

I am assuming that the reference numbers, which you have (quite properly) blacked out, match up between the various documents.

If that is the case, then I would advise writing two letters. The first to the prosecutor – this is the person whose details appear next to "charge authorised by" on the SJPN. Everything below in [square brackets] needs to be replaced by yourself with the relevant details. As with any formal letter you begin at the top with your address and the date.

You can send them by email as well if you wish, but given the issues you have had so far with your spam, I very strongly advise that you post them and keep the posting receipts. This is not to be done by phone.

Letter 1​

Dear Mr./Ms. [insert surname of prosecutor],

URN: [insert the URN from your SJPN]

I am Mr./Ms. [your name] of the above address and with date of birth [your date of birth]. You have commenced a prosecution against me by Single Justice Procedure, with the above URN. You have charged me with a breach of section 18 (1) of the Railway Byelaws. For the avoidance of doubt, the breach is not admitted.

I refer to the Penalty Fare Notice number [insert the reference number of the Penalty Fare], which says it was issued on 14 July 2023. On 16 July 2023, this Penalty Fare was appealed in the manner prescribed, and the outcome was issued on 4 August 2023. I enclose copies of the appeal acknowledgment and outcome letters, with reference [insert the appeal number].

Section 11 (3) and (4) of the Railways Penalty Fares Regulations 2018 state that:

"(3) Where a person falling within paragraph (1)(a) has appealed against the penalty fare under regulation 16, proceedings for any of the offences specified in paragraph (4) may only be brought against that person for the same failure to produce a platform ticket or a valid travel ticket if the operator, on whose behalf the penalty fare was charged, notifies the relevant Appeal Panel that the penalty fare is cancelled before—

(a)the relevant Appeal Panel has decided the outcome of the appeal under regulation 16; or

(b)the time period mentioned in paragraph 6 of Schedule 2 expires,

whichever is sooner.

(4) The offences referred to in paragraphs (1) and (3) are the offences under—

(...)

(b)any byelaw made under—

(...)

(iv)section 46 of the Railways Act 2005".

You did not cancel the Penalty Fare before the Appeal Panel decided the outcome of my appeal, and the proceedings you have brought against me under the Railway Byelaws are therefore void. I would appreciate if you would confirm by return that you have notified Portsmouth Magistrates Court that you will not be pursuing them.

Yours sincerely

[your signature, in handwriting]
[Your name, typed]

End of letter 1.

You will enclose copies of the acknowledgment letter and appeal outcome letter from Penalty Services.

The second letter is to the clerk to the justices at Portsmouth Magistrates court, whose details are also on the SJPN. This would go something like this:

Letter 2​

Dear Sir/Madam,

URN: [insert the URN from your SJPN]

I refer to the above URN and enclose a copy of a letter I have sent to the prosecutor in the matter explaining that the proceedings they have sought to bring are barred by section 11 (3) and (4) of the Railways Penalty Fares Regulations 2018.

I would be grateful if you could confirm that the magistrates will not be hearing these proceedings, but if you are unable to do this, please treat this letter as an indication under section 16B (2) of the Magistrates Court Act that I do not wish to be tried in accordance with section 16A.

Yours faithfully

[your signature, in handwriting]
[Your name, typed]

End of letter 2.

You will enclose copies of the acknowledgment letter and appeal outcome letter from Penalty Services and the letter you sent to SWR.

"Not wishing to be tried in accordance with section 16A" means you are opting out of the Single Justice Procedure and will delay matters by making them issue you a summons to appear in court, buying extra time if needed to have the legal argument.

These letters should be sent tomorrow, by post, at a minimum 1st class signed for, but special delivery guaranteed would be better.

As your Penalty Fare appeal has been refused and the time to raise a second appeal has long expired, the amount of £103.80 remains due and payable and you should make arrangements for this amount to be settled. Failing to do so can result in county court proceedings being taken against you incurring additional interest and charges.

I do not believe any of the grovelling, asking, nor paying of higher amounts that my colleagues refer to in preceding posts is necessary. SWR have broken the law by attempting to prosecute you after issuing a Penalty Fare that has been appealed. The government has put in place a penalty fare system for resolving minor ticketing issues like this, and it is for TOCs to choose whether to use the system or the criminal justice system. They cannot mix and match.

Further reading:

• Railways Penalty Fares Regulations 2018 section 11: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2018/366/regulation/11
• Magistrates Court Act 1980 sections 16A-B: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpg...heading/trial-by-single-justice-on-the-papers

 

[KirkstallOne]

Excellent advice and agree with the no grovelling. Passengers are held to the letter of the law and this is a serious mistake by the TOC or Penalty Fares Service. It is them who should be grovelling!

 

[RPI]

I am assuming that the reference numbers, which you have (quite properly) blacked out, match up between the various documents.

If that is the case, then I would advise writing two letters. The first to the prosecutor – this is the person whose details appear next to "charge authorised by" on the SJPN. Everything below in [square brackets] needs to be replaced by yourself with the relevant details. As with any formal letter you begin at the top with your address and the date.

You can send them by email as well if you wish, but given the issues you have had so far with your spam, I very strongly advise that you post them and keep the posting receipts. This is not to be done by phone.

Letter 1​

Dear Mr./Ms. [insert surname of prosecutor],

URN: [insert the URN from your SJPN]

I am Mr./Ms. [your name] of the above address and with date of birth [your date of birth]. You have commenced a prosecution against me by Single Justice Procedure, with the above URN. You have charged me with a breach of section 18 (1) of the Railway Byelaws. For the avoidance of doubt, the breach is not admitted.

I refer to the Penalty Fare Notice number [insert the reference number of the Penalty Fare], which says it was issued on 14 July 2023. On 16 July 2023, this Penalty Fare was appealed in the manner prescribed, and the outcome was issued on 4 August 2023. I enclose copies of the appeal acknowledgment and outcome letters, with reference [insert the appeal number].

Section 11 (3) and (4) of the Railways Penalty Fares Regulations 2018 state that:

"(3) Where a person falling within paragraph (1)(a) has appealed against the penalty fare under regulation 16, proceedings for any of the offences specified in paragraph (4) may only be brought against that person for the same failure to produce a platform ticket or a valid travel ticket if the operator, on whose behalf the penalty fare was charged, notifies the relevant Appeal Panel that the penalty fare is cancelled before—

(a)the relevant Appeal Panel has decided the outcome of the appeal under regulation 16; or

(b)the time period mentioned in paragraph 6 of Schedule 2 expires,

whichever is sooner.

(4) The offences referred to in paragraphs (1) and (3) are the offences under—

(...)

(b)any byelaw made under—

(...)

(iv)section 46 of the Railways Act 2005".

You did not cancel the Penalty Fare before the Appeal Panel decided the outcome of my appeal, and the proceedings you have brought against me under the Railway Byelaws are therefore void. I would appreciate if you would confirm by return that you have notified Portsmouth Magistrates Court that you will not be pursuing them.

Yours sincerely

[your signature, in handwriting]
[Your name, typed]

End of letter 1.

You will enclose copies of the acknowledgment letter and appeal outcome letter from Penalty Services.

The second letter is to the clerk to the justices at Portsmouth Magistrates court, whose details are also on the SJPN. This would go something like this:

Letter 2​

Dear Sir/Madam,

URN: [insert the URN from your SJPN]

I refer to the above URN and enclose a copy of a letter I have sent to the prosecutor in the matter explaining that the proceedings they have sought to bring are barred by section 11 (3) and (4) of the Railways Penalty Fares Regulations 2018.

I would be grateful if you could confirm that the magistrates will not be hearing these proceedings, but if you are unable to do this, please treat this letter as an indication under section 16B (2) of the Magistrates Court Act that I do not wish to be tried in accordance with section 16A.

Yours faithfully

[your signature, in handwriting]
[Your name, typed]

End of letter 2.

You will enclose copies of the acknowledgment letter and appeal outcome letter from Penalty Services and the letter you sent to SWR.

"Not wishing to be tried in accordance with section 16A" means you are opting out of the Single Justice Procedure and will delay matters by making them issue you a summons to appear in court, buying extra time if needed to have the legal argument.

These letters should be sent tomorrow, by post, at a minimum 1st class signed for, but special delivery guaranteed would be better.

As your Penalty Fare appeal has been refused and the time to raise a second appeal has long expired, the amount of £103.80 remains due and payable and you should make arrangements for this amount to be settled. Failing to do so can result in county court proceedings being taken against you incurring additional interest and charges.

I do not believe any of the grovelling, asking, nor paying of higher amounts that my colleagues refer to in preceding posts is necessary. SWR have broken the law by attempting to prosecute you after issuing a Penalty Fare that has been appealed. The government has put in place a penalty fare system for resolving minor ticketing issues like this, and it is for TOCs to choose whether to use the system or the criminal justice system. They cannot mix and match.

Further reading:

• Railways Penalty Fares Regulations 2018 section 11: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2018/366/regulation/11
• Magistrates Court Act 1980 sections 16A-B: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpg...heading/trial-by-single-justice-on-the-papers

Spot on, though be prepared to pay the outstanding PF as SWR can and probably will pursue the unpaid amount through the civil court, TOC's have started doing this now.

 

[chillibiscuit]

I am assuming that the reference numbers, which you have (quite properly) blacked out, match up between the various documents.

If that is the case, then I would advise writing two letters. The first to the prosecutor – this is the person whose details appear next to "charge authorised by" on the SJPN. Everything below in [square brackets] needs to be replaced by yourself with the relevant details. As with any formal letter you begin at the top with your address and the date.

You can send them by email as well if you wish, but given the issues you have had so far with your spam, I very strongly advise that you post them and keep the posting receipts. This is not to be done by phone.

Letter 1​

Dear Mr./Ms. [insert surname of prosecutor],

URN: [insert the URN from your SJPN]

I am Mr./Ms. [your name] of the above address and with date of birth [your date of birth]. You have commenced a prosecution against me by Single Justice Procedure, with the above URN. You have charged me with a breach of section 18 (1) of the Railway Byelaws. For the avoidance of doubt, the breach is not admitted.

I refer to the Penalty Fare Notice number [insert the reference number of the Penalty Fare], which says it was issued on 14 July 2023. On 16 July 2023, this Penalty Fare was appealed in the manner prescribed, and the outcome was issued on 4 August 2023. I enclose copies of the appeal acknowledgment and outcome letters, with reference [insert the appeal number].

Section 11 (3) and (4) of the Railways Penalty Fares Regulations 2018 state that:

"(3) Where a person falling within paragraph (1)(a) has appealed against the penalty fare under regulation 16, proceedings for any of the offences specified in paragraph (4) may only be brought against that person for the same failure to produce a platform ticket or a valid travel ticket if the operator, on whose behalf the penalty fare was charged, notifies the relevant Appeal Panel that the penalty fare is cancelled before—

(a)the relevant Appeal Panel has decided the outcome of the appeal under regulation 16; or

(b)the time period mentioned in paragraph 6 of Schedule 2 expires,

whichever is sooner.

(4) The offences referred to in paragraphs (1) and (3) are the offences under—

(...)

(b)any byelaw made under—

(...)

(iv)section 46 of the Railways Act 2005".

You did not cancel the Penalty Fare before the Appeal Panel decided the outcome of my appeal, and the proceedings you have brought against me under the Railway Byelaws are therefore void. I would appreciate if you would confirm by return that you have notified Portsmouth Magistrates Court that you will not be pursuing them.

Yours sincerely

[your signature, in handwriting]
[Your name, typed]

End of letter 1.

You will enclose copies of the acknowledgment letter and appeal outcome letter from Penalty Services.

The second letter is to the clerk to the justices at Portsmouth Magistrates court, whose details are also on the SJPN. This would go something like this:

Letter 2​

Dear Sir/Madam,

URN: [insert the URN from your SJPN]

I refer to the above URN and enclose a copy of a letter I have sent to the prosecutor in the matter explaining that the proceedings they have sought to bring are barred by section 11 (3) and (4) of the Railways Penalty Fares Regulations 2018.

I would be grateful if you could confirm that the magistrates will not be hearing these proceedings, but if you are unable to do this, please treat this letter as an indication under section 16B (2) of the Magistrates Court Act that I do not wish to be tried in accordance with section 16A.

Yours faithfully

[your signature, in handwriting]
[Your name, typed]

End of letter 2.

You will enclose copies of the acknowledgment letter and appeal outcome letter from Penalty Services and the letter you sent to SWR.

"Not wishing to be tried in accordance with section 16A" means you are opting out of the Single Justice Procedure and will delay matters by making them issue you a summons to appear in court, buying extra time if needed to have the legal argument.

These letters should be sent tomorrow, by post, at a minimum 1st class signed for, but special delivery guaranteed would be better.

As your Penalty Fare appeal has been refused and the time to raise a second appeal has long expired, the amount of £103.80 remains due and payable and you should make arrangements for this amount to be settled. Failing to do so can result in county court proceedings being taken against you incurring additional interest and charges.

I do not believe any of the grovelling, asking, nor paying of higher amounts that my colleagues refer to in preceding posts is necessary. SWR have broken the law by attempting to prosecute you after issuing a Penalty Fare that has been appealed. The government has put in place a penalty fare system for resolving minor ticketing issues like this, and it is for TOCs to choose whether to use the system or the criminal justice system. They cannot mix and match.

Further reading:

• Railways Penalty Fares Regulations 2018 section 11: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2018/366/regulation/11
• Magistrates Court Act 1980 sections 16A-B: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpg...heading/trial-by-single-justice-on-the-papers

Thank you so much I'll start writing them up right away.

 

[Starmill]

Thanks for the learning. I was under (perhaps) an incorrect assumption that if the penalty fare could have been deemed invalidly issued, it would automatically revoke a court proceeding.

It could fundamentally undermine the prosecution's case to the point where they felt they had no choice but to withdraw it, but that's very unlikely here as they can point to the original ticketless travel-related offence. However they may have to withdraw if it's pointed out that there's a statutory problem with the prosecution.

 

[chillibiscuit]

"(3) Where a person falling within paragraph (1)(a) has appealed against the penalty fare under regulation 16, proceedings for any of the offences specified in paragraph (4) may only be brought against that person for the same failure to produce a platform ticket or a valid travel ticket if the operator, on whose behalf the penalty fare was charged, notifies the relevant Appeal Panel that the penalty fare is cancelled before—

(a)the relevant Appeal Panel has decided the outcome of the appeal under regulation 16; or

(b)the time period mentioned in paragraph 6 of Schedule 2 expires,

whichever is sooner.

(4) The offences referred to in paragraphs (1) and (3) are the offences under—

(...)

(b)any byelaw made under—

(...)

(iv)section 46 of the Railways Act 2005".

You did not cancel the Penalty Fare before the Appeal Panel decided the outcome of my appeal, and the proceedings you have brought against me under the Railway Byelaws are therefore void. I would appreciate if you would confirm by return that you have notified Portsmouth Magistrates Court that you will not be pursuing them.

In Letter one i'm unsure of what to write where the (...) are? I'm finding it difficult to understand the law language

 

[island]

In Letter one i'm unsure of what to write where the (...) are? I'm finding it difficult to understand the law language

You only need to fill in things between [square brackets].

The (...) should be reproduced as-is in your letter. They represent parts of the law that I have left out because they are irrelevant to the case at hand.

 

[WesternLancer]

I am assuming that the reference numbers, which you have (quite properly) blacked out, match up between the various documents.

If that is the case, then I would advise writing two letters. The first to the prosecutor – this is the person whose details appear next to "charge authorised by" on the SJPN. Everything below in [square brackets] needs to be replaced by yourself with the relevant details. As with any formal letter you begin at the top with your address and the date.

You can send them by email as well if you wish, but given the issues you have had so far with your spam, I very strongly advise that you post them and keep the posting receipts. This is not to be done by phone.

Letter 1​

Dear Mr./Ms. [insert surname of prosecutor],

URN: [insert the URN from your SJPN]

I am Mr./Ms. [your name] of the above address and with date of birth [your date of birth]. You have commenced a prosecution against me by Single Justice Procedure, with the above URN. You have charged me with a breach of section 18 (1) of the Railway Byelaws. For the avoidance of doubt, the breach is not admitted.

I refer to the Penalty Fare Notice number [insert the reference number of the Penalty Fare], which says it was issued on 14 July 2023. On 16 July 2023, this Penalty Fare was appealed in the manner prescribed, and the outcome was issued on 4 August 2023. I enclose copies of the appeal acknowledgment and outcome letters, with reference [insert the appeal number].

Section 11 (3) and (4) of the Railways Penalty Fares Regulations 2018 state that:

"(3) Where a person falling within paragraph (1)(a) has appealed against the penalty fare under regulation 16, proceedings for any of the offences specified in paragraph (4) may only be brought against that person for the same failure to produce a platform ticket or a valid travel ticket if the operator, on whose behalf the penalty fare was charged, notifies the relevant Appeal Panel that the penalty fare is cancelled before—

(a)the relevant Appeal Panel has decided the outcome of the appeal under regulation 16; or

(b)the time period mentioned in paragraph 6 of Schedule 2 expires,

whichever is sooner.

(4) The offences referred to in paragraphs (1) and (3) are the offences under—

(...)

(b)any byelaw made under—

(...)

(iv)section 46 of the Railways Act 2005".

You did not cancel the Penalty Fare before the Appeal Panel decided the outcome of my appeal, and the proceedings you have brought against me under the Railway Byelaws are therefore void. I would appreciate if you would confirm by return that you have notified Portsmouth Magistrates Court that you will not be pursuing them.

Yours sincerely

[your signature, in handwriting]
[Your name, typed]

End of letter 1.

You will enclose copies of the acknowledgment letter and appeal outcome letter from Penalty Services.

The second letter is to the clerk to the justices at Portsmouth Magistrates court, whose details are also on the SJPN. This would go something like this:

Letter 2​

Dear Sir/Madam,

URN: [insert the URN from your SJPN]

I refer to the above URN and enclose a copy of a letter I have sent to the prosecutor in the matter explaining that the proceedings they have sought to bring are barred by section 11 (3) and (4) of the Railways Penalty Fares Regulations 2018.

I would be grateful if you could confirm that the magistrates will not be hearing these proceedings, but if you are unable to do this, please treat this letter as an indication under section 16B (2) of the Magistrates Court Act that I do not wish to be tried in accordance with section 16A.

Yours faithfully

[your signature, in handwriting]
[Your name, typed]

End of letter 2.

You will enclose copies of the acknowledgment letter and appeal outcome letter from Penalty Services and the letter you sent to SWR.

"Not wishing to be tried in accordance with section 16A" means you are opting out of the Single Justice Procedure and will delay matters by making them issue you a summons to appear in court, buying extra time if needed to have the legal argument.

These letters should be sent tomorrow, by post, at a minimum 1st class signed for, but special delivery guaranteed would be better.

As your Penalty Fare appeal has been refused and the time to raise a second appeal has long expired, the amount of £103.80 remains due and payable and you should make arrangements for this amount to be settled. Failing to do so can result in county court proceedings being taken against you incurring additional interest and charges.

I do not believe any of the grovelling, asking, nor paying of higher amounts that my colleagues refer to in preceding posts is necessary. SWR have broken the law by attempting to prosecute you after issuing a Penalty Fare that has been appealed. The government has put in place a penalty fare system for resolving minor ticketing issues like this, and it is for TOCs to choose whether to use the system or the criminal justice system. They cannot mix and match.

Further reading:

• Railways Penalty Fares Regulations 2018 section 11: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2018/366/regulation/11
• Magistrates Court Act 1980 sections 16A-B: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpg...heading/trial-by-single-justice-on-the-papers

Beyond this - presumably there is a case for a courteous letter to SWR (enclosing copies of all this?) to let them know of the course of action, whilst also offering to promptly pay the outstanding Penalty Fare and ticket price which remains due but had not been noticed due to the non awareness of the Appeal outcome?

 

[chillibiscuit]

You only need to fill in things between [square brackets].

The (...) should be reproduced as-is in your letter. They represent parts of the law that I have left out because they are irrelevant to the case at hand.

Oh I see , They will be sent off priority mail First thing tomorrow morning! Thank you so much for your help i will ensure to keep everyone updated. In the meantime if there's anything else that i should do then please let me know.

Beyond this - presumably there is a case for a courteous letter to SWR (enclosing copies of all this?) to let them know of the course of action, whilst also offering to promptly pay the outstanding Penalty Fare and ticket price which remains due but had not been noticed due to the non awareness of the Appeal outcome?

yes i completely agree , i was going to do this via email but do you think a letter would go down / be taken better? Or would it make no difference

 

[island]

Oh I see , They will be sent off priority mail First thing tomorrow morning! Thank you so much for your help i will ensure to keep everyone updated. In the meantime if there's anything else that i should do then please let me know.

yes i completely agree , i was going to do this via email but do you think a letter would go down / be taken better? Or would it make no difference

It is generally considered good etiquette that, absent some particular reason not to, you respond in the same way as you were contacted, so respond to a letter with a letter, a phone call with a phone call, an email with an email.

I am urging you to use the postal system here because (1) you were originally contacted by post by the court, (2) you have previously missed at least one email due to it going to "spam", which is why it's escalated to court proceedings, and (3) the court system is, at its core, traditional and formal, and a letter, supported by proof of posting, simply carries more weight and cachet than an email.

There is no reason why you should not send the letters by email as well as by post if you see fit, as email attachments, with a simple note such as "dear ____ please find attached a copy of a letter regarding case URN _____, the original is in the post".

 

[WesternLancer]

yes i completely agree , i was going to do this via email but do you think a letter would go down / be taken better? Or would it make no difference

I would agree with island's post #55. and you have got well into 'formal process' here of course. Sending it also by e-mail as islands outlines seems sensible too -since the post is not infallible of course.

 

[chillibiscuit]

It is generally considered good etiquette that, absent some particular reason not to, you respond in the same way as you were contacted, so respond to a letter with a letter, a phone call with a phone call, an email with an email.

I am urging you to use the postal system here because (1) you were originally contacted by post by the court, (2) you have previously missed at least one email due to it going to "spam", which is why it's escalated to court proceedings, and (3) the court system is, at its core, traditional and formal, and a letter, supported by proof of posting, simply carries more weight and cachet than an email.

There is no reason why you should not send the letters by email as well as by post if you see fit, as email attachments, with a simple note such as "dear ____ please find attached a copy of a letter regarding case URN _____, the original is in the post".

And would this letter be sent to the SWR prosecutions department ? or would it be to SWR Customer Service department?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Jan 2024 ==

Sorry to be a pain but every time i try draft this letter it comes across smug and confrontational! would it be alright to get a draft from someone?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Jan 2024 ==

It is generally considered good etiquette that, absent some particular reason not to, you respond in the same way as you were contacted, so respond to a letter with a letter, a phone call with a phone call, an email with an email.

I am urging you to use the postal system here because (1) you were originally contacted by post by the court, (2) you have previously missed at least one email due to it going to "spam", which is why it's escalated to court proceedings, and (3) the court system is, at its core, traditional and formal, and a letter, supported by proof of posting, simply carries more weight and cachet than an email.

There is no reason why you should not send the letters by email as well as by post if you see fit, as email attachments, with a simple note such as "dear ____ please find attached a copy of a letter regarding case URN _____, the original is in the post".

Beyond this - presumably there is a case for a courteous letter to SWR (enclosing copies of all this?) to let them know of the course of action, whilst also offering to promptly pay the outstanding Penalty Fare and ticket price which remains due but had not been noticed due to the non awareness of the Appeal outcome?

Could either of you (or anyone reading) let me know if this is an appropriate letter to send to SWR?

 

[WesternLancer]

And would this letter be sent to the SWR prosecutions department ? or would it be to SWR Customer Service department?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Jan 2024 ==

Sorry to be a pain but every time i try draft this letter it comes across smug and confrontational! would it be alright to get a draft from someone?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Jan 2024 ==



Could either of you (or anyone reading) let me know if this is an appropriate letter to send to SWR?
View attachment 150512

can you post the text of your draft in a post (as opposed to an attachment that can't be edited or copied and pasted?) this would help make any minor suggestions for amends that you could consider easier to suggest.

 

[chillibiscuit]

can you post the text of your draft in a post (as opposed to an attachment that can't be edited or copied and pasted?) this would help make any minor suggestions for amends that you could consider easier to suggest.

Of course

Dear Sir/Madam,
URN: [ ]
SWR Prosecutions Case No: [ ]
I hope this letter finds you well.
I am writing to bring to your attention the matter regarding two letters that I recently sent to the prosecution department and Magistrates’ court, copies of which are enclosed with this correspondence. The purpose of these letters is to highlight the reasons why the prosecution against me is void.
I would appreciate it if you could facilitate the prompt payment of the original penalty fee associated with this case.
I am open to further discussions or clarifications required to expedite the resolution process.
Thank you for your attention to this matter. I look forward to a swift and fair resolution.

Yours faithfully

 

[WesternLancer]

Of course

Dear Sir/Madam,
URN: [ ]
SWR Prosecutions Case No: [ ]
I hope this letter finds you well.
I am writing to bring to your attention the matter regarding two letters that I recently sent to the prosecution department and Magistrates’ court, copies of which are enclosed with this correspondence. The purpose of these letters is to highlight the reasons why the prosecution against me is void.
I would appreciate it if you could facilitate the prompt payment of the original penalty fee associated with this case.
I am open to further discussions or clarifications required to expedite the resolution process.
Thank you for your attention to this matter. I look forward to a swift and fair resolution.

Yours faithfully

Thanks - I think you are just politely advising them of what you are doing - tho @island may have some valuable points to add, and requesting to pay - I'd be tempted to amend to (hope the changes are clear below) . I would presume you send this to the SWR prosecutions department or revenue protection team (or whatever they are called) or if you have to send it via Customer Services mark it clearly for the attention of the SWR prosecutions department or revenue protection team.

I hope it is clear what I am suggesting being added as well as the strikethrough for suggested deletions

Dear Sir/Madam,
URN: [ ]
SWR Prosecutions Case No: [ ]
Date:

I hope this letter finds you well.
I am writing to bring to your attention the matter regarding two letters relating to the above case that I have recently sent to the prosecution department and Magistrates’ court, copies of which are enclosed with this correspondence. I hope the content is self explanatory.

The purpose of these letters is to highlight the reasons why the prosecution against me is void.

I am mindful that the Penalty Fare and related train fare is still owed, because I have only recently found out that my original Appeal was unsuccessful. I would like to pay this sum promptly and would be grateful if you could advise how I can do this as quickly as possible.
I would appreciate it if you could facilitate the prompt payment of the original penalty fee associated with this case.
I am open to further discussions or clarifications required to expedite the resolution process.

Thank you for your attention to this matter and I look forward to hearing from you. I look forward to a swift and fair resolution.

Yours faithfully


I'm not sure if would be helpful to ask at the end if eg 'given the circumstances if SWR will consider withdrawing the court action', but others might make a suggestion on that / any amended wording.