SWR Class 458 to be retained

[Invincible]

It would be an odd rumour to surface now, I’m sure if we were to go back to the original conversion it was immediately stated that the coupling change only allowed for emergency rescue. To the best of my knowledge it was only ever tested within Wimbledon depot.
I just searched and found my own post from a 2010 thread on the 458/5s, Modern Railways had just run an article which included that the coupler and gangway changes were for emergency purposes.

But as the refurbished 458s are to replace 450s on the PML, then will be more likely 444s might to do an emergency rescue. The coupling and gangway between a 458 and 444 Desiro should still work, perhaps one of the tests they can now do at the Bournemouth depot?

 

[Bigfoot]

But as the refurbished 458s are to replace 450s on the PML, then will be more likely 444s might to do an emergency rescue. The coupling and gangway between a 458 and 444 Desiro should still work, perhaps one of the tests they can now do at the Bournemouth depot?

They'd only test it if they are actually going to enter service. That is unlikely currently.

 

[CAF397]

To be fair, Sprinters from three separate manufacturers are all compatible with each other and with Turbostars from a fourth - though clearly that's a bit different as it pre-dates computer systems that wouldn't talk to each other.

They all had BSI couplings.

The 458s and 450s, whilst sharing the cup and cone "Dellner" coupling head, look to have completely different electrical boxes.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

No more orange inside the unit. Grab rails are blue, so is the carpet, so are the seats!

Shame they didn’t do the same for the 450s.

 

[swt_passenger]

But as the refurbished 458s are to replace 450s on the PML, then will be more likely 444s might to do an emergency rescue. The coupling and gangway between a 458 and 444 Desiro should still work, perhaps one of the tests they can now do at the Bournemouth depot?

444 and 450 already couple fully, so I can’t see any logical reason a 444 and 458/4 won’t already couple mechanically.

 

[WarrenTManager]

444 and 450 already couple fully, so I can’t see any logical reason a 444 and 458/4 won’t already couple mechanically.

When 8501 had its burn up at Windsor way back when, it was assisted back to depot by the 458 it was coupled to and a 450. They can mechanically couple to a 707/707

 

[swt_passenger]

When 8501 had its burn up at Windsor way back when, it was assisted back to depot by the 458 it was coupled to and a 450. They can mechanically couple to a 707/707

That makes a lot of sense re the 707, although presumably it wasn’t thought of until some time later than 450/444 given the relative dates?

Do you know if the original tests included a run outside the depot confines, presumably it might have been done overnight - lack of any forum coverage at the time doesn’t necessarily mean it never happened, but I do remember seeing a photo of them paired up at Wimbledon sidings, looked like it was taken from a passing train.

 

[WarrenTManager]

That makes a lot of sense re the 707, although presumably it wasn’t thought of until some time later than 450/444 given the relative dates?

Do you know if the original tests included a run outside the depot confines, presumably it might have been done overnight - lack of any forum coverage at the time doesn’t necessarily mean it never happened, but I do remember seeing a photo of them paired up at Wimbledon sidings, looked like it was taken from a passing train.

Tests are only done in the depot from my knowledge. Getting permission to run a 5mph swinger out on the network would probably involve a lot of begging. I think the 707s were tested in acceptance like the 701s have been. 450>701 testing was done 22/07/20.

 

[LUYMun]

Looks like another 458 move today, being dragged by 69008 and 47749:

Realtime Trains | 5Z51 0928 Leicester L.I.P. to Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D | 31/07/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Z51 0928 departure from Leicester L.I.P. to Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D on 31/07/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[pompeyfan]

Looks like another 458 move today, being dragged by 69008 and 47749:

Realtime Trains | 5Z51 0928 Leicester L.I.P. to Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D | 31/07/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Z51 0928 departure from Leicester L.I.P. to Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D on 31/07/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

That will be for a northbound drag. South bound run as a Q or an X headcode.

Found the path for the drag;

Realtime Trains | 5Q66 1916 Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D to Wembley Receptions 1-7 | 31/07/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Q66 1916 departure from Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D to Wembley Receptions 1-7 on 31/07/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[444045]

That will be for a northbound drag. South bound run as a Q or an X headcode.

Found the path for the drag;

Realtime Trains | 5Q66 1916 Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D to Wembley Receptions 1-7 | 31/07/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Q66 1916 departure from Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D to Wembley Receptions 1-7 on 31/07/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Unit 458523 at Bournemouth Depot waiting to head off to Widnes via Wembley this evening.

 

[Siemens Staines]

U.458523 is at Bournemouth Depot having the 460 coach stripped of its interior ready for a move to Widnes.

Word from the platform end is that 458523 departed Bournemouth on 5Q66 as a 5-car yesterday. I did not see the train myself, so I cannot verify if this is correct or not.

 

[444045]

Word from the platform end is that 458523 departed Bournemouth on 5Q66 as a 5-car yesterday. I did not see the train myself, so I cannot verify if this is correct or not.

Yes 458523 did depart as a 5car unit en route to Widnes via Wembley.

 

[Benno]

Word from the platform end is that 458523 departed Bournemouth on 5Q66 as a 5-car yesterday. I did not see the train myself, so I cannot verify if this is correct or not.

That was certainly the plan. Arrive Widnes early Tuesday.

 

[8A Rail]

That was certainly the plan. Arrive Widnes early Tuesday.

No 69008 and 47749 were the loco's plus barrier wagons for that move (5Q69). And for the record, Coach No 77425 was seen yesterday being transported on Low Loader from Alstom, Widnes to Porterbrook, Coventry.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

No 69008 and 47749 were the loco's plus barrier wagons for that move (5Q69). And for the record, Coach No 77425 was seen yesterday being transported on Low Loader from Alstom, Widnes to Porterbrook, Coventry.

Am I right in assuming that's the ex-460 coach?

 

[D6975]

The ex Gatwick coaches are:
74401,74402,74403,74404,74405,74406,74407,74408,74411,74412,74413,74414,74415,74416,74417,74418,74421,74422,74423,74424,74425,74426,74427,74428,74431,74432,74433,74434,74435,74436,74437,74438,74441,74442,74451,74452.

77425 isn't even a 458 coach. It is/was a 442 end coach.

 

[Western Sunset]

Word from the platform end is that 458523 departed Bournemouth on 5Q66 as a 5-car yesterday. I did not see the train myself, so I cannot verify if this is correct or not.

It certainly did...

 

[1nvicible]

The 47 is still parked outside Widnes this evening

 

[8A Rail]

The 47 is still parked outside Widnes this evening

And not going anywhere either, pending decision on what to do with it.

 

[The_Train]

The ex Gatwick coaches are:
74401,74402,74403,74404,74405,74406,74407,74408,74411,74412,74413,74414,74415,74416,74417,74418,74421,74422,74423,74424,74425,74426,74427,74428,74431,74432,74433,74434,74435,74436,74437,74438,74441,74442,74451,74452.

77425 isn't even a 458 coach. It is/was a 442 end coach.

So would it have been 74434 that was removed from 8523, if any has yet been removed?

 

[Western Sunset]

So would it have been 74434 that was removed from 8523, if any has yet been removed?

As noted above, 458523 headed for Widnes as a 5-car set. I'm unclear as to why some folks don't accept this.

 

[fgwrich]

No 69008 and 47749 were the loco's plus barrier wagons for that move (5Q69). And for the record, Coach No 77425 was seen yesterday being transported on Low Loader from Alstom, Widnes to Porterbrook, Coventry.

It'll be bound for Long Marston than Coventry.

 

[adc82140]

Are some of these bodyshells being kept as spares, or is it just effectively a stopover before scrapping?

 

[D6975]

As noted above, 458523 headed for Widnes as a 5-car set. I'm unclear as to why some folks don't accept this.

Follow the conversation backwards, it doesn't say that 458523 didn't go as a 5 car to Widnes, it's about a coach going by road that was mis-identified as a 458 vehicle. (or if a 458 vehicle, the wrong number)

 

[The_Train]

Follow the conversation backwards, it doesn't say that 458523 didn't go as a 5 car to Widnes, it's about a coach going by road that was mis-identified as a 458 vehicle. (or if a 458 vehicle, the wrong number)

Thanks for clearing that up with the person in question. Not sure why some have to get so defensive, so quickly!

 

[Peter Sarf]

No 69008 and 47749 were the loco's plus barrier wagons for that move (5Q69). And for the record, Coach No 77425 was seen yesterday being transported on Low Loader from Alstom, Widnes to Porterbrook, Coventry.

+

Follow the conversation backwards, it doesn't say that 458523 didn't go as a 5 car to Widnes, it's about a coach going by road that was mis-identified as a 458 vehicle. (or if a 458 vehicle, the wrong number)

My feeling is that a vehicle from 458523 is unlikely to have been removed so soon after arrival by rail at Widnes. Much less chance a low-loader was booked and ready so soon to take said vehicle away. I will go for 77425 being from something else.

 

[WarrenTManager]

I would suggest a typo and the BZ car in question is 74425. Which came from 8505, now 8405. Few harsh pile ons when it’s easy to look up the formation of the three units gone up already.

 

[GWVillager]

I would suggest a typo and the BZ car in question is 74425. Which came from 8505, now 8405. Few harsh pile ons when it’s easy to look up the formation of the three units gone up already.

This would explain it. It’s rather hard to misidentify a 442 coach as a 458!

 

[OneTrackMinded]

No news in a while.. any updates?