Swindon to Windsor & Eton Central

[SwindonPkwy]

Traveling to and from Windsor tomorrow, is £28.60 the cheapest adult return ticket cost without any railcards?

Sorry for the short notice.

 

[yorkie]

Yes according to brfares.com the SSR at 28.60 is the cheapest walk-up return ticket:

http://brfares.com/#fares?orig=SWI&dest=WNC&rlc=

 

[FenMan]

For the fast trains (which must stop at Didcot) the "normal" split is:-
Swindon - Didcot: £9.90
Didcot - Windsor & Eton Central: £14.50
Total: £24.40

You could save 20p by splitting Didcot - Reading and then Reading - Windsor.

It's cheaper on the slow trains:-
Swindon - Pangbourne: £11.20
Pangbourne - Windsor: £10.70
Total: £21.90

 

[SwindonPkwy]

Thank you Yorkie and FenMan. I will have a look at the slow trains and splitting. Advice much appreciated.

 

[David Goddard]

Yorkie - please confirm whether this would be permitted:

Swindon - Cholsey OP Day Return 9.90
Reading - Windsor & Eton Central OP Day Return 8.70

Making use of Easement 700137:
Customers travelling from Cholsey via Didcot Parkway in possession of tickets routed 'Any Permitted' may travel via Reading. This easement applies in both directions.
Total £18.60

 

[soil]

I am not sure that it is, if you are not in fact actually travelling to/from Cholsey.
But maybe you could get away with it....

 

[gnolife]

I am not sure that it is, if you are not in fact actually travelling to/from Cholsey.
But maybe you could get away with it....

If you're going to do it, then make sure you aren't on a train that calls at Cholsey from Swindon, and change trains at Reading

 

[soil]

If you're going to do it, then make sure you aren't on a train that calls at Cholsey from Swindon, and change trains at Reading

There are no trains from Swindon calling at Cholsey.

That's why the easement exists.

Either you take a fast train from Swindon to Reading and then board the commuter train to Cholsey, or you take a train from Swindon to Didcot and board the same service going in the other direction.

Since not all trains from Swindon to Reading call at Didcot, this easement is a boon for people actually travelling to Cholsey.

 

[bnm]

Since not all trains from Swindon to Reading call at Didcot, this easement is a boon for people actually travelling to Cholsey.

It's also a boon for people wishing to break their journey at Reading before heading on to Cholsey later. Then deciding to change their travel plans and stay in Reading. That's what I often do.....

 

[bb21]

Yorkie - please confirm whether this would be permitted:

Swindon - Cholsey OP Day Return 9.90
Reading - Windsor & Eton Central OP Day Return 8.70

Making use of Easement 700137:
Customers travelling from Cholsey via Didcot Parkway in possession of tickets routed 'Any Permitted' may travel via Reading. This easement applies in both directions.
Total £18.60

If you want to stop/start short at Reading, I would seriously consider getting off at Reading and board the train behind for onward travel. Same applies on the way back.

Customers travelling from Cholsey via Didcot Parkway in possession of tickets routed 'Any Permitted' may travel via Reading. This easement applies in both directions.

If you are travelling through from Swindon to Slough on the same train, then it is quite clear that you are not "travelling from Cholsey" (or "travelling to Cholsey" as in the opposite direction).

 

[kieron]

If you are travelling through from Swindon to Slough on the same train, then it is quite clear that you are not "travelling from Cholsey" (or "travelling to Cholsey" as in the opposite direction).

Clearly not, but you wouldn't do it with the same ticket anyway. Sometimes it happens that a passenger spends some time during a break of journey travelling by train. I would hope that the passenger does not meet any poorly trained staff during either journey, of course.

 

[soil]

If you want to stop/start short at Reading, I would seriously consider getting off at Reading and board the train behind for onward travel. Same applies on the way back.



If you are travelling through from Swindon to Slough on the same train, then it is quite clear that you are not "travelling from Cholsey" (or "travelling to Cholsey" as in the opposite direction).

It's worth noting the stopping pattern of trains from Swindon, which is as follows:

Swindon
Didcot Parkway
(not stopping at Cholsey, Goring and Streatley, Pangbourne and Tilehurst)
Reading
(fast to)
Paddington

or

Swindon
(not stopping at Didcot Parkway, Cholsey, Goring and Streatley, Pangbourne and Tilehurst)
Reading
(fast to)
Paddington

There are no direct trains from Swindon to Slough; trains from Slough all head north from Didcot Parkway - none continue west to Swindon.

So there is basically no inconvenience whatsoever to the passenger, who is of course heading to Cholsey 'later'. :roll:

 

[David Goddard]

So the cheapest ticket from Reading to Didcot is actually Cholsey - Didcot.
Anytime Day £4.00 vice £9.00 and Off Peak Day at £3.30 vice £5.60 from Reading.

 

[island]

It is considered unclear whether a route permitted only by an easement such as this permits starting/finishing short en route.

 

[OwlMan]

So the cheapest ticket from Reading to Didcot is actually Cholsey - Didcot.
Anytime Day £4.00 vice £9.00 and Off Peak Day at £3.30 vice £5.60 from Reading.

No, the easement aplies to journeys via Didcot not to Didcot.

Peter

 

[SwindonPkwy]

Thank you to all contributors. I have booked the (safer?) Didcot option. I am not confident enough to challenge ticket inspectors about easements.

The other half is happy so we should have a good day out.

 

[yorkie]

It is not valid, in my opinion, to claim your journey is to Cholsey, when your journey is to Windsor & Eton. If an easement allows you to do something for a journey to Cholsey then it only applies if your journey is to Cholsey.

Whether or not you can get away with it by changing trains at Reading does not alter the question as to whether or not it is permitted - it isn't.

There is no way I am going to answer a question of "What is the cheapest ticket from Swindon to Windsor & Eton" with suggesting a combination of tickets that makes use of easements that do not actually apply. In fact, if the question is what is the cheapest ticket, then the answer is simply on brfares.com (or National Rail Enquries), but if the question is asking the cheapest combination of tickets then that is not something we can know without looking it up - there is a website that does attempt to determine the cheapest combination and is often right (but you must check the results with an official source) and that is trainscanbecheaper.info

 

[bnm]

Whether or not you can get away with it by changing trains at Reading does not alter the question as to whether or not it is permitted - it isn't.

Opinion or fact?

The way I see it the easement allows for greater service options and doesn't in any way lessen your rights under the Conditions of Carriage. You are permitted to travel via Reading and if the ticket's validity code allows ending short as per Condition 16 then I see no reason why you can't end your journey en route to Cholsey. Cholsey is the destination printed on the ticket and thanks to the easement the route you are allowed to take is via Reading. If you are travelling onward from Reading (my opinion is that it is not wise to stay on the same train as would be allowed with 'normal' split tickets) then arguably you have ended your first journey 'short', and the next ticket from Reading to wherever is a new journey.

This is what I do when heading onward from Reading. Get off the train, pop outside for a bit then board another service onward. Possibly on a ticket to Hanwell via Paddington ending short again at Paddington.

 

[yorkie]

Opinion or fact?

My opinion on this matter is in line with what ATOCs official view is.

The way I see it the easement allows for greater service options and doesn't in any way lessen your rights under the Conditions of Carriage. You are permitted to travel via Reading and if the ticket's validity code allows ending short as per Condition 16 then I see no reason why you can't end your journey en route to Cholsey.

If your journey is to Cholsey, you may travel via Reading.

If your journey is not to Cholsey then you are travelling over-distance and liable to be treated as the NRCoC states for travelling over-distance.

Cholsey is the destination printed on the ticket and thanks to the easement the route you are allowed to take is via Reading.

Only if your journey is to Cholsey.

If you are travelling onward from Reading (my opinion is that it is not wise to stay on the same train as would be allowed with 'normal' split tickets) then arguably you have ended your first journey 'short', and the next ticket from Reading to wherever is a new journey.

If your journey is not to Cholsey, then as soon as you go beyond Cholsey, you are not in possession of a valid ticket for your journey.

This is what I do when heading onward from Reading. Get off the train, pop outside for a bit then board another service onward. Possibly on a ticket to Hanwell via Paddington ending short again at Paddington.

That is also not permitted, because that easement applies to journeys to Hanwell (and the other named stations). If your journey is to Paddington the easement does not apply.

 

[bnm]

My opinion on this matter is in line with what ATOCs official view is.

An official view in the public domain? If so, could you direct me to it.

Where is there public information that says Routeing Guide Easements trump the Conditions of Carriage? The NRCoC is a document you've said may times Yorkie, is the final arbiter for what is and isn't permitted.

You're saying I'm not allowed to end short at Reading. What about breaking my journey there and then 'discovering' my plans have changed and I need to travel elsewhere on a ticket from Reading. Must I go to Cholsey first?

You also say I'm travelling over-distance if I end my journey at Reading? How so when the easement permits travel via Reading?

Why not just say the exploiting of loopholes created by Easements is something you'd rather not see discussed publicly?

I'm saying what I often do, although whether others choose to do so is up to them.

 

[LexyBoy]

If I hold a SDS for Swindon-Paddington, and choose to use it to make a journey to Cholsey, may I then travel via Reading? If the easement applies to the journey and not the ticket then surely the answer is yes?

BTW I find it rather annoying that this easement exists but nothing of the like for Oxford (except by buying much more expensive tickets), which has a much better service to Reading than Didcot. Travelling via Reading from Cholsey is only a few miles less than the same from Oxford.

 

[kieron]

If your journey is to Cholsey, you may travel via Reading.

If your journey is not to Cholsey then you are travelling over-distance and liable to be treated as the NRCoC states for travelling over-distance.

I don't think you or anyone else has yet suggested that SwindonPkwy did not travel to Cholsey.

BTW I find it rather annoying that this easement exists but nothing of the like for Oxford (except by buying much more expensive tickets), which has a much better service to Reading than Didcot. Travelling via Reading from Cholsey is only a few miles less than the same from Oxford.

This easement does only apply to Cholsey. There's a similar easement for other stations nearby regarding "not via London" tickets (including Oxford), but they tend to be the dearer ones.

It seems to be a bit hit and miss as to whether ticket sites recognise valid journeys via Reading. Cholsey-Swindon isn't shown as one ticket on NRE, Northern or TPE. Goring & Streatley-Swindon is.

 

[Paul Kelly]

There's a similar easement for other stations nearby regarding "not via London" tickets (including Oxford), but they tend to be the dearer ones.

That's not really an easement in the true sense though; those "NOT LONDON" fares are actually intended to be valid via Reading; the easement is just a hack to make the booking engines realise this.

 

[kieron]

That's not really an easement in the true sense though; those "NOT LONDON" fares are actually intended to be valid via Reading; the easement is just a hack to make the booking engines realise this.

It would be a hack (or rather, an easement with no effect on route validity) if they were routed via Reading, but as things stand the easement is the only thing which permits doubling back.

 

[alcockell]

Thinking about one journey I made which involved doubling-back (or the TRAIN went back on itself) and that was Exeter St Davids to West Drayton - saver return.

OK - it was a long time ago... is this no longer allowed? Even though all I did was change at Reading as instructed?

 

[LexyBoy]

Thinking about one journey I made which involved doubling-back (or the TRAIN went back on itself) and that was Exeter St Davids to West Drayton - saver return.

OK - it was a long time ago... is this no longer allowed? Even though all I did was change at Reading as instructed?

Unless you were taking a very unusual route, there's no doubling back on that journey- West Drayton is beyond Reading, not back towards Exeter.

 

[alcockell]

Unless you were taking a very unusual route, there's no doubling back on that journey- West Drayton is beyond Reading, not back towards Exeter.

I was thinking of the departure route... I came in on platform 5 (old design), then left to West Drayton on platform 3.

 

[LexyBoy]

Are you sure? *scratches head*

 

[John @ home]

the TRAIN went back on itself

I assume that you mean that the train reversed. At which place did the train reverse?

Thinking about one journey I made which involved doubling-back

Doubling back is defined on page 2 of the National Routeing Guide Instructions as

passing through the same station twice on a single journey

Did your Exeter St Davids to West Drayton journey pass through any railway station more than once? If so, which station?

 

[alcockell]

Ah.... no it didn't. I was unaware of that definition of "doubling back".

Reading recently had a redesign - platform 5 was the long-haul London-Plymouth line, platform... just that the Reading-West Drayton train was back towards the SW before turning left...

Thanks for that one..