Supermarkets discussion

[DynamicSpirit]

However they do speed things up considerably.

I agree. I love the self-service checkouts both for the speed and for how they make it easier for for me to check as I'm scanning stuff that I am being charged the price I'm expecting (including any offers or discounts) for each item - rather than having to figure it out from the receipt after I've already left the checkout. But I can also see that if they are facilitating a lot more shoplifting, then that is a problem.

I wonder if the way that the Amazon Fresh stores are doing it is one way forward? I experimentally tried looking round one a few weeks ago: You basically can't get into the shop without first presenting a card/some means by which you can be charged, and then you just pickup whatever you want and walk out, with lots of cameras (and presumably, some very sophisticated software) working out exactly what you've taken from the shelves so they know what to charge you. I can see a few potential issues: Can the system ever make mistakes and if so, how are they resolved? And what about people who want to pay cash? But on the upside, shoplifting becomes almost impossible (other I guess than through fraudulent bank card use), staffing requirements are minimal, and it's extremely quick to shop there with no checkout to go through.

 

[Edsmith]

If retailers are finally waking up to the complete fallacy of self-checkouts then it's all good as far as I'm concerned, I've never liked them and would be very glad to see every single last one can find to a skip

There is no fallacy of self checkouts, if you choose not to use them then that's up to you.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Oct 2023 ==

I agree. I love the self-service checkouts both for the speed and for how they make it easier for for me to check as I'm scanning stuff that I am being charged the price I'm expecting (including any offers or discounts) for each item - rather than having to figure it out from the receipt after I've already left the checkout. But I can also see that if they are facilitating a lot more shoplifting, then that is a problem.

I wonder if the way that the Amazon Fresh stores are doing it is one way forward? I experimentally tried looking round one a few weeks ago: You basically can't get into the shop without first presenting a card/some means by which you can be charged, and then you just pickup whatever you want and walk out, with lots of cameras (and presumably, some very sophisticated software) working out exactly what you've taken from the shelves so they know what to charge you. I can see a few potential issues: Can the system ever make mistakes and if so, how are they resolved? And what about people who want to pay cash? But on the upside, shoplifting becomes almost impossible (other I guess than through fraudulent bank card use), staffing requirements are minimal, and it's extremely quick to shop there with no checkout to go through.

Some Sainsburys stores have barriers at the checkout and you have to scan the receipt to open them, by no means foolproof but it should make things a bit more difficult for shoplifters whilst hopefully not delaying everybody else.

 

[gg1]

However they do speed things up considerably.

They really don't, at least not for a big shop. They're fine if you only have a handful of items but useless for a full weekly shop.

 

[Edsmith]

They really don't, at least not for a full weekly shop. They're fine if you only have a handful of items but useless for a full weekly shop.

Yes and there are usually staffed checkouts available for big shops.

 

[gg1]

Yes and there are usually staffed checkouts available for big shops.

In the case of my local Morrisons, there's usually one staffed checkout invariably with a lengthy queue, or if if you go late in the evening there are none at all and it's self checkout or nothing.

 

[Mojo]

They really don't, at least not for a big shop. They're fine if you only have a handful of items but useless for a full weekly shop.

Although for big shops many supermarkets have handheld scanners and/or mobile apps that allow you to scan as you shop and then just scan a barcode on the self service terminals (or manned checkouts depending on the shop). At Sainsburys Local you don’t even have to go to a checkout and can pay direct via Apple Pay on your phone, scanning a barcode on the wall to complete your shop.

 

[gg1]

Although for big shops many supermarkets have handheld scanners and/or mobile apps that allow you to scan as you shop and then just scan a barcode on the self service terminals (or manned checkouts depending on the shop). At Sainsburys Local you don’t even have to go to a checkout and can pay direct via Apple Pay on your phone, scanning a barcode on the wall to complete your shop.

Yes, I'm a firm convert to those where available, though Morrisons don't have them.

My local Asda also has the annoying habit of not having any self scan handsets charged and ready for use when I arrive (probably around a third of the time I go), scanning via app is considerably slower and less reliable than the handset, usually a 5-10 second wait before a scan goes through compared to virtually instantaneous for the handset and with a much higher proportion of items needing a second scan.

 

[stuartl]

BBC are reporting that the boss of John Lewis will leave when her current contract ends.

 

[AM9]

If retailers are finally waking up to the complete fallacy of self-checkouts then it's all good as far as I'm concerned, I've never liked them and would be very glad to see every single last one can find to a skip

I suppose that it depends on where you shop. I normally use 'quick check' (hand held scanners whilst shopping) at Waitrose and despite the kiosks for checking out being at the furthest corner of the store, find them fast, and generally trouble free, even when the occasional rescan is requested. What is sometimes dire is when a shopper turns up at the kiosks and manually scans their whole week's shopping from a trolley, (the kiosks are dual purpose), one item at a time when there are checkout desks with empty belts and (much more competent ) cashiers waiting for customers with their full trolleys.

 

[Bishopstone]

Morrisons did too until the new owners came along!

I'm pretty certain that Marks and Spencer won't own the freeholds at designated shopping centres e.g. Westfield, thus enabling them to close a store and surrender a lease if they consider it's not proving profitable enough. Whether all 'high street' properties are still owned outright I couldn't say, but I think there'd have been press publicity if they'd changed their previous policy.

M&S‘s high street store estate includes some very archaic leases of 50-75 years length that they’d love to exit but can’t, unless the freeholder also wants a vacant site for re-development and is prepared to terminate the lease early.

Imagine signing a 50 year lease on a shop premises, with no break clause, today!

 

[Hadders]

However they do speed things up considerably.

Agreed. No-one is forced to use a self checkout but in mainstream supermarkets the majority of transactions are processed through some form of self checkout nowadays.

Similar sort of situation to ATMs being rolled out 30-40 years ago. Who queues up to cash a cheque these days?

Some Sainsburys stores have barriers at the checkout and you have to scan the receipt to open them, by no means foolproof but it should make things a bit more difficult for shoplifters whilst hopefully not delaying everybody else.

They are a good deterrent but like on the railway it doesn’t prevent ‘short faring’. Supermarkets on the continent have had these barriers for years.

They really don't, at least not for a big shop. They're fine if you only have a handful of items but useless for a full weekly shop.

The big supermarkets are increasingly installing self checkouts with a large packing area, suitable for a large trolley shop. What I don’t understand is why someone would choose to use a self checkout instead of a scan and go handset. They are much, much faster. Pack your bags as you go round the shop, no need to unload and reload everything at the checkout!

 

[DynamicSpirit]

The big supermarkets are increasingly installing self checkouts with a large packing area, suitable for a large trolley shop. What I don’t understand is why someone would choose to use a self checkout instead of a scan and go handset. They are much, much faster. Pack your bags as you go round the shop, no need to unload and reload everything at the checkout!

It may be lack of knowledge. To be honest I've seen the scan and go handsets before in several supermarkets but I've always ignored them. I think the issue is that (a) if I'm in the supermarket, I'm usually in a hurry and I don't want to stop right now and take time to learn how to use something I don't yet know how to use, even if it'll save me time on future shopping trips, and partly because I've just assumed that to use them, you need to have registered online in advance. Maybe that 2nd assumption is incorrect?

Also, I'm usually carrying both the supermarket basket and my cycle panniers (one or two of them depending how big a shop I'm planning on), so not sure how it's going to work if I have to carry a scanner around the shop with me as well.

 

[gg1]

It may be lack of knowledge. To be honest I've seen the scan and go handsets before in several supermarkets but I've always ignored them. I think the issue is that (a) if I'm in the supermarket, I'm usually in a hurry and I don't want to stop right now and take time to learn how to use something I don't yet know how to use, even if it'll save me time on future shopping trips, and partly because I've just assumed that to use them, you need to have registered online in advance. Maybe that 2nd assumption is incorrect?

For the Tesco ones you need a clubcard, scan the card to unlock a handsest, Sainsburys is the same principle with a Nectar card. For Asda you need to enter your mobile number on a touchscreen to unlock the handset.

No need for any online registration.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

For the Tesco ones you need a clubcard, scan the card to unlock a handsest, Sainsburys is the same principle with a Nectar card. For Asda you need to enter your mobile number on a touchscreen to unlock the handset.

No need for any online registration.

Oh OK thanks! In that case I'll likely try them out soon when I'm in a supermarket that has them.

 

[al78]

Imagine what only eating produce that’s locally available and in-season in the UK would look like- turnips thrice a day!

A Christmas dinner. There is a reason the veg traditionally served is what it is, it is because that was what was available in December before we had any notion of mass importing of food. Veg available in the winter are crops that can stand outside over winter (e.g. leeks, some brassicas, parsnips) and crops that can be harvested in the autumn and stored (e.g. potatoes, carrots). The biggest issue with eating seasonally in the UK is the hungry gap around late Spring, when the winter outdoor and stored veg has been consumed and the newly planted crops have not matured, although even here, some brassicas crop around this time (e.g. purple sprouting broccoli). If you have an allotment and are a skilled gardener with the time and energy you could supply yourself with veg for pretty much the whole year.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Oct 2023 ==

They really don't, at least not for a big shop. They're fine if you only have a handful of items but useless for a full weekly shop.

Depends on what you mean by "full weekly shop" but I frequently use self service checkouts for my weekly shop (which is only for myself so never that big) and they are a lot faster. For one thing, at my local Tesco, there is one queue for six machines compared to one queue for each individual cashier, so in the latter, all it takes for a delay is one or more people going fiddle faff fiddle faff I had my wallet/purse here somewhere rummage rummage I didn't think to get it ready during the 10 minutes I was in the queue, sorry, of which there are plenty of such people in the Horsham district. In contrast, it takes six simultaneous dilly dalliers or flaky machines to bring the self service queue to a halt, I'll be through and out the door whilst you are still queueing.

 

[DelW]

The big supermarkets are increasingly installing self checkouts with a large packing area, suitable for a large trolley shop. What I don’t understand is why someone would choose to use a self checkout instead of a scan and go handset. They are much, much faster. Pack your bags as you go round the shop, no need to unload and reload everything at the checkout!

For me, the items in my basket (rarely a trolley) are in the order I've collected them, defined by the shop layout. I want them to go into my carry-home bags in the order I want to unpack them, and separated into frozen / chilled / ambient for priority of unpacking. The checkout conveyor is where I convert from one order to the other.

It also allows me to have a chat with the checkout operator, most of whom are friendly. They are also much quicker than me at categorising loose produce, which doesn't have a barcode.

If the shop is very busy and I only have a few items, I'll use a self checkout, not otherwise. I avoid all "loyalty" cards, so per post below, handsets aren't an option anyway.

For the Tesco ones you need a clubcard, scan the card to unlock a handsest, Sainsburys is the same principle with a Nectar card. For Asda you need to enter your mobile number on a touchscreen to unlock the handset.

No need for any online registration.

Surely Clubcard/Nectar are effectively a registration?

 

[gg1]

Surely Clubcard/Nectar are effectively a registration?

They are but pretty much everyone who shops at Tesco or Sainsburys on a regular basis (regardless of whether they use scan and go or not) will already have one anyway as a lot of items are now more expensive without. There's nothing required beyond that to use scan and go.

 

[skyhigh]

Surely Clubcard/Nectar are effectively a registration?

I can't imagine many people will shop at Tesco/Sainsbury's and not have the relevant loyalty card these days. You would have to be particularly stubborn to refuse to sign up for one when they are the only way to get certain discounts that used to be freely available.

(I've noticed a lot of the normal previous special offers at Sainsbury's have now become 'Nectar Prices')

 

[AM9]

For me, the items in my basket (rarely a trolley) are in the order I've collected them, defined by the shop layout. I want them to go into my carry-home bags in the order I want to unpack them, and separated into frozen / chilled / ambient for priority of unpacking. The checkout conveyor is where I convert from one order to the other.

It also allows me to have a chat with the checkout operator, most of whom are friendly. They are also much quicker than me at categorising loose produce, which doesn't have a barcode.

If the shop is very busy and I only have a few items, I'll use a self checkout, not otherwise. I avoid all "loyalty" cards, so per post below, handsets aren't an option anyway.


Surely Clubcard/Nectar are effectively a registration?

I accept that going into the store for the first time and having to register might be a bit of a turn-off, but can't understand those who whine about 'other customers' getting fast checkouts (because they have scanners) and having discount vouchers/free offers, because they do register, whilst claiming that their anonymity is their right which means that they refuse to subscribe to benefit from these offers. Maybe they have weak wills and are frightened that they might succumb to targetted promotions.

 

[gg1]

Depends on what you mean by "full weekly shop" but I frequently use self service checkouts for my weekly shop (which is only for myself so never that big) and they are a lot faster. For one thing, at my local Tesco, there is one queue for six machines compared to one queue for each individual cashier, so in the latter, all it takes for a delay is one or more people going fiddle faff fiddle faff I had my wallet/purse here somewhere rummage rummage I didn't think to get it ready during the 10 minutes I was in the queue, sorry, of which there are plenty of such people in the Horsham district. In contrast, it takes six simultaneous dilly dalliers or flaky machines to bring the self service queue to a halt, I'll be through and out the door whilst you are still queueing.

In our case shopping for two it's usually filling up one of the smaller half height trolleys. The main problem is the dreaded 'unexpected item in bagging area' messages and the resulting wait for a member of staff to reset the till and let you proceed. The only way I've found to reliably stop most of them is to not bag anything at all until I've finished scanning and have paid, even then I still get the occasional one.

 

[jon0844]

The newer tills seem to have dropped the scales and this means no more unexpected items, but also likely aids shoplifting. Once again, the stores will take the hit and pass on the cost to us, just to keep the lines moving.

 

[skyhigh]

The newer tills seem to have dropped the scales and this means no more unexpected items, but also likely aids shoplifting. Once again, the stores will take the hit and pass on the cost to us, just to keep the lines moving.

The Sainsbury's Local near here had these tills installed. Within a month they'd added the bagging scales back...

 

[Hadders]

It may be lack of knowledge. To be honest I've seen the scan and go handsets before in several supermarkets but I've always ignored them. I think the issue is that (a) if I'm in the supermarket, I'm usually in a hurry and I don't want to stop right now and take time to learn how to use something I don't yet know how to use, even if it'll save me time on future shopping trips, and partly because I've just assumed that to use them, you need to have registered online in advance. Maybe that 2nd assumption is incorrect?

Also, I'm usually carrying both the supermarket basket and my cycle panniers (one or two of them depending how big a shop I'm planning on), so not sure how it's going to work if I have to carry a scanner around the shop with me as well.

I’d say it’s a lack of knowledge. Once you try it I doubt you’ll go back to your previous way of paying.

Even my totally non-tech 81 year old mum is a convert and (in the nicest possible way) that’s saying something!

 

[DynamicSpirit]

I accept that going into the store for the first time and having to register might be a bit of a turn-off, but can't understand those who whine about 'other customers' getting fast checkouts (because they have scanners) and having discount vouchers/free offers, because they do register, whilst claiming that their anonymity is their right which means that they refuse to subscribe to benefit from these offers.

If anyone does complain like that, then yes, I'd struggle to understand it too. But does anyone actually do that? I don't think ever ever encountered anyone doing so.

 

[Gloster]

Some people do not like handing over their details, particularly to commercial organisations. Such is the modern world that I expect that before long the government will bow to the big companies and loosen the restrictions on the use of data, purely to ‘enhance our shopping experience’, of course, and soon all sorts of people will know more about us than we want them to. And then the hackers will strike.

 

[gg1]

If anyone does complain like that, then yes, I'd struggle to understand it too. But does anyone actually do that? I don't think ever ever encountered anyone doing so.

There were definitely people who refused to get them on principle when they were just rewards cards equivalent to 0.5% to 1% off your shopping people, I knew a few of them. Now the difference between getting one and not getting one is so much greater I'd be very surprised if there more than a handful.

Always struck me as a bit silly really even when it was just a rewards card. I can fully understand why people feel uncomfortable with, for example, Google tracking your full browsing history but Tesco having a breakdown of everything I've bought from them is hardly a major invasion of privacy and not data I'd be remotely bothered about them selling on.

 

[AM9]

If anyone does complain like that, then yes, I'd struggle to understand it too. But does anyone actually do that? I don't think ever ever encountered anyone doing so.

I was going to search for the posts that I remember here, but the last two posts above have comfirmed my assertion. There was even a recent post complaining that shops shouldn't give discounts to those that do subscribe to loyalty schemes. Any suggestion that they should subscribe if they want the benefits prompted indignation that they should be required to share anything about themselves and others who do, shouldn't benefit from the schemes.

 

[py_megapixel]

Trust me stock loss through self checkouts at all retailers is huge. The discounters seem to be removing them from many stores.

I've not really noticed this myself - in fact there now seem to be a few city centre ones which are entirely self-service, with one or two tills that are normally unstaffed and only used when specifically requested or if something can't be done at the self checkout.

 

[Hadders]

I've not really noticed this myself - in fact there now seem to be a few city centre ones which are entirely self-service, with one or two tills that are normally unstaffed and only used when specifically requested or if something can't be done at the self checkout.

The mainstream supermarkets are moving to more of a self service model. Stock loss increases when this happens but this has to be balanced off against the productivity increase (some labour but by no means all labour), and space that can be repurposed for other things.

The discounters have installed self checkouts, and news on the street is they's like to install more, but they seem to have pulled back and have started to open stores without self checkouts at all. I suspect this is because they've baulked at the level of stock loss and havn't been able to balance this with productivity savings.

 

[Cross City]

I've not really noticed this myself - in fact there now seem to be a few city centre ones which are entirely self-service, with one or two tills that are normally unstaffed and only used when specifically requested or if something can't be done at the self checkout.

The loss of stock may be greater through self check out but it's more than covered by not having to employ a lot of checkout staff.

If self checkouts lost shops money they wouldn't exist.