Supermarkets discussion

[Peter Mugridge]

It’s been refuted internally (for now).

It would be a huge mistake if they did go ahead and do this; they'd be opening themselves up to ongoing rent increases.

They should instead take a much closer look into establishing where and why they are losing money and fix the issue at that point. It's surprising how many businesses cannot accurately pin down where money is leaking out despite the huge wealth ( pun intended ) of data they have on both costs and revenues.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

It would be a huge mistake if they did go ahead and do this; they'd be opening themselves up to ongoing rent increases.

They should instead take a much closer look into establishing where and why they are losing money and fix the issue at that point. It's surprising how many businesses cannot accurately pin down where money is leaking out despite the huge wealth ( pun intended ) of data they have on both costs and revenues.

Or they know but don't want to admit it, perhaps because some pet projects may need to be admitted as failures! I never got the rebranding as 'and partners' and now they seem to think they are a housebuilder. Imagine a housebuilder suddenly deciding they could run supermarkets or department stores!

 

[Busaholic]

John Lewis to raise £150m selling off Waitrose stores in turnaround push

Sale comes as troubled department store seeks fresh funding after recent run of losses

www.telegraph.co.uk

From the Telegraph


In short, Waitrose are to sell off some sites in a “sale and leaseback” in a plan to raise funds but allow them to keep running from the locations.

It always seems to me a bit desperate when companies do this, so wonder what the future holds.

Waitrose did a huge promotion earlier in the year about how they were reducing prices on many items, and actually came in very competitive against many of their rivals for similar products. However it seems since the summer ended their prices have crept up again, despite this not being replicated in rival supermarkets.

Morrisons announced in April 2022 they wanted to raise £500 million by selling freeholds. In October 2022 they said they planned to make £150 million by selling and leasing back five of their stores. In December 2022 news came of their pocketing £220 million from doing the same to seven distribution centres, Three days ago, Morrisons' CEO stood down.

John Lewis is a very different kettle of fish from Morrisons (although, notably, both retain fresh fish counters ) but, as you say, desperation is not a good long term look.

 

[py_megapixel]

Lidl seems to be switching to e-ink shelf edge displays rather than the previous paper labels. In general I think the displays are very clear and readable, but it's annoying that out of stock items just vanish from the displays, so you can't tell what was supposed to be in the gap. Thus it's not always obvious whether an item you can't find is out of stock temporarily or whether Lidl doesn't stock it at all.

I'm also surprised that e-ink technology has become cheap enough that it's cost-effective to fit out an entire supermarket with it in place of paper. (I don't think this is a special pilot in my local store - I've seen it not only in multiple Lidls but also in 3 Decathlons, and various supermarkets on the continent too)

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Morrisons announced in April 2022 they wanted to raise £500 million by selling freeholds. In October 2022 they said they planned to make £150 million by selling and leasing back five of their stores. In December 2022 news came of their pocketing £220 million from doing the same to seven distribution centres, Three days ago, Morrisons' CEO stood down.

John Lewis is a very different kettle of fish from Morrisons (although, notably, both retain fresh fish counters ) but, as you say, desperation is not a good long term look.

Marks & Spencers, say 20 to 30 years ago, made a point of owning all their properties freehold. In the interim they have had several financial wobbles but I'm not sure if they did any 'sale and leasebacks' or whether their new, often out-of-town stores, are freehold or leasehold.

I can see both sides of the argument. A large amount of wealth can be tied up in property, 'doing nothing' in the eyes of the financial engineers, alternatively having that asset backing can be useful if you hit a rocky patch or wish to borrow to expand. The financial engineers will say credit is easy to come by even without asset backing! Those same engineers are happy to send a company to the wall owing £m hundreds to creditors. It's the new way of doing business: Own nothing, spend other peoples money, walk away when it gets tough. I remain amazed at the number of people willing to lend to such companies with no assets! Then again they themselves are often lending other peoples money (eg pension funds).

 

[skyhigh]

I'm also surprised that e-ink technology has become cheap enough that it's cost-effective to fit out an entire supermarket with it in place of paper. (I don't think this is a special pilot in my local store - I've seen it not only in multiple Lidls but also in 3 Decathlons, and various supermarkets on the continent too)

It's all over the place now. And the key saving is in staff hours - rather than paying someone to go round and find/swap out the labels when there's a price change or offer on it can be done instantly from a remote central location.

 

[py_megapixel]

It's all over the place now. And the key saving is in staff hours - rather than paying someone to go round and find/swap out the labels when there's a price change or offer on it can be done instantly from a remote central location.

Presumably if the backend systems are integrated then it also removes the (admittedly occasional) issue of products labelled with one price scanning at the checkout with a different price

 

[jon0844]

Aldi ones are black and red, so offers can be made to stand out. I don't know if they now make ones (and at a decent price) that can do additional colours, as I can imagine some supermarkets wanting that ability to better push special offers.

 

[Busaholic]

Marks & Spencers, say 20 to 30 years ago, made a point of owning all their properties freehold. In the interim they have had several financial wobbles but I'm not sure if they did any 'sale and leasebacks' or whether their new, often out-of-town stores, are freehold or leasehold.

Morrisons did too until the new owners came along!

I'm pretty certain that Marks and Spencer won't own the freeholds at designated shopping centres e.g. Westfield, thus enabling them to close a store and surrender a lease if they consider it's not proving profitable enough. Whether all 'high street' properties are still owned outright I couldn't say, but I think there'd have been press publicity if they'd changed their previous policy.

 

[skyhigh]

Aldi ones are black and red, so offers can be made to stand out. I don't know if they now make ones (and at a decent price) that can do additional colours, as I can imagine some supermarkets wanting that ability to better push special offers.

You can buy a dual colour e-ink display (of the size used for shelf labels) with associated control board to work with a Pi for under £10 online. I reckon with a big bulk order - bearing in mind the size of their European store estate - they're probably looking at a reasonable cost per unit.

 

[CC 72100]

It's all over the place now. And the key saving is in staff hours - rather than paying someone to go round and find/swap out the labels when there's a price change or offer on it can be done instantly from a remote central location.

And yet it's been commonplace in French supermarkets for at least 10 years; I'm surprised its taken this long to catch on over here.

 

[SuspectUsual]

And yet it's been commonplace in French supermarkets for at least 10 years; I'm surprised its taken this long to catch on over here.

Metro (German former parent company of Makro over here) had them in Dusseldorf in 2006.

 

[_toommm_]

Lidl seems to be switching to e-ink shelf edge displays rather than the previous paper labels. In general I think the displays are very clear and readable, but it's annoying that out of stock items just vanish from the displays, so you can't tell what was supposed to be in the gap. Thus it's not always obvious whether an item you can't find is out of stock temporarily or whether Lidl doesn't stock it at all.

You’d be surprised how long ticketing takes. When promotions change in the supermarket I work in, after we’ve moved over the stock, it takes a good four hours (with a good dozen staff) to change the tickets (after all, it includes increases as well as decreases).

I tend to do the former process; finishing at midnight. Another group of staff come in four hours later to audit the tickets, making sure everything is in the right place; prices, weight, description etc. are right versus what our handsets say. It is an incredibly laborious process. And the supermarket I work in is only mid-sized.

All that to say, I would love to have e-ink displays. They always make me turn my head in other supermarkets (in a good way).

 

[jon0844]

You can buy a dual colour e-ink display (of the size used for shelf labels) with associated control board to work with a Pi for under £10 online. I reckon with a big bulk order - bearing in mind the size of their European store estate - they're probably looking at a reasonable cost per unit.

Dual colour might not work for some though. Colour eInk displays are still developing but I'm sure Sainsbury's and Tesco want purple and yellow options, for example.

Absolutely they're the future and some stores adopted these many years ago as has been mentioned.

 

[skyhigh]

Dual colour might not work for some though. Colour eInk displays are still developing but I'm sure Sainsbury's and Tesco want purple and yellow options, for example.

Yellow or red plus black are widely available. I'm guessing it wouldn't be too hard to purchase your own choice of colour if you were looking for a big enough order (unless you mean they'd want purple, yellow and black in one display?)

 

[GusB]

You’d be surprised how long ticketing takes. When promotions change in the supermarket I work in, after we’ve moved over the stock, it takes a good four hours (with a good dozen staff) to change the tickets (after all, it includes increases as well as decreases).

I tend to do the former process; finishing at midnight. Another group of staff come in four hours later to audit the tickets, making sure everything is in the right place; prices, weight, description etc. are right versus what our handsets say. It is an incredibly laborious process. And the supermarket I work in is only mid-sized.

All that to say, I would love to have e-ink displays. They always make me turn my head in other supermarkets (in a good way).

I'm certainly not surprised. When I worked for Safeway, most price changes and promotions were done 4-weekly. The admin team would kick off by making sure that all the shelf-edge tickets and point of sale material were printed out and ready to go, then I'd come in at 10pm for a night shift to help with putting them out on the shelves. Tickets that had changed were place at 90 degrees to their normal orientation and only put in place properly once the price had been checked against the file price. It wasn't actually my department, but I was quick with the gadget that we used to check the prices and it was a good way of earning extra money on bank holiday weekends!

E-ink would certainly eliminate a lot of work and paper waste - and deprive some skint young people of some extra cash, depending which way you look at it

 

[renegademaster]

IMHO, by far the best supermarket chain in the land is Booth's. 'What/who is that?' I hear you ask....or at least those of you who don't live in Lancashire/South Cumbria/North Cheshire/Western Yorkshire. Booth's is a small family-owned chain of high quality supermarkets - you could say the Northern equivalent of Waitrose - based in Preston. The founder E. H. Booth was a small family grocer in Preston - much as William Morrison was in Bradford - and the present day shops are a by-word for quality, range, friendliness and helpfulness of staff, wide aisles, wide checkouts and full diasabled accessibility. The range and quality of their delicatessen products, cheeses, beers, wines and spirits are legendary and they specialise in selling locally-sourced produce. Like Waitrose, they are not cheap but, given the quality of their produce, they are exceptionally good value. At the last count, they had 22 stores in Barrowford, Burscough, Carnforth, Chorley, Clitheroe, Fulwood, Garstang, Hale Barns (Altrincham), Ilkley, Kendal, Kirkby Lonsdale, Knutsford, Lancaster, Longridge, Longton, Lytham, Penwortham, Poulton-le-Fylde, Ripon, St Annes-on-Sea, Settle and Windermere. The Clitheroe store is in the old railway goods yard alongside the station and the Windermere store has been built within the old Victorian train shed of the original station. AFAIK, they have only closed one store - that in Salford's Media City - due to the astronomical rent outpacing the takings.

A most of the independent supermarkets in the south seem to either depend on co-op/Nisa or Tesco/One-Stop/Jack's for all their stock , is booth similar?

 

[Hadders]

Presumably if the backend systems are integrated then it also removes the (admittedly occasional) issue of products labelled with one price scanning at the checkout with a different price

Assuming the correct product has been put in front of the shelf edge label....

 

[Mcr Warrior]

A most of the independent supermarkets in the south seem to either depend on co-op/Nisa or Tesco/One-Stop/Jack's for all their stock , is booth similar?

Wouldn't have said so. Booth's seems to have positioned itself as a North of England equivalent to Waitrose. (Indeed, believe the two companies have previously contemplated joining forces in a combined buying alliance).

 

[jon0844]

Assuming the correct product has been put in front of the shelf edge label....

Are they actually connected over a low-powered network? When I first looked into these e-Ink price tags, I believe they needed to be updated via a device that was touched (NFC) on it. If that was/is the case, someone still needs to go around the store.

 

[Snow1964]

In short, Waitrose are to sell off some sites in a “sale and leaseback” in a plan to raise funds but allow them to keep running from the locations.

It always seems to me a bit desperate when companies do this, so wonder what the future holds.

There is a different version going around that Waitrose have identified some stores (rumoured to be about 30-50, so quantity might be out) where store is in correct location (area or town), but store is all wrong (physically difficult laid out and in some cases on 3 levels internally), they are apparently looking at how to replace them.

Waitrose have some stores opened nearer 50 years ago which were designed for another era before car based shopping was common. They also have stores that they took over from others, my nearest was a Somerfield (it's cramped and ugly outside, but has good staff)

 

[D6130]

A most of the independent supermarkets in the south seem to either depend on co-op/Nisa or Tesco/One-Stop/Jack's for all their stock , is booth similar?

Not at all. Booths have their own independent and ethical buying policy with over 50% of produce purchased directly from local suppliers, There's a good chance that - for example - the strawberries that you buy in Booths will have been still in the ground a few miles away earlier the same morning. I can't see them ever entering into a buying alliance with any other supermarket(s)....their standards are too high.

 

[Russel]

My local, rather large, Lidl that opened less than 6 months ago has no self checkouts, which is quite annoying when you call in for a couple of bits and have to join the 4 trolley deep queue for the 1 checkout that is open.

Any ideas why Lidl seem so inconsistent when it comes to which stores have self checkouts?

 

[Hadders]

My local, rather large, Lidl that opened less than 6 months ago has no self checkouts, which is quite annoying when you call in for a couple of bits and have to join the 4 trolley deep queue for the 1 checkout that is open.

Any ideas why Lidl seem so inconsistent when it comes to which stores have self checkouts?

It's to do with the levels of stock loss through self checkouts.

 

[Russel]

It's to do with the levels of stock loss through self checkouts.

It's a brand new store though, how would they know how much stock loss would occour?

Every other supermarket in the local area, including Aldi have had self checkouts for at least 5 years now.

 

[AM9]

It's a brand new store though, how would they know how much stock loss would occour?

Every other supermarket in the local area, including Aldi have had self checkouts for at least 5 years now.

Lidl and Aldi attract a different demographic, so might consider that where self checkout is concerned.

 

[Hadders]

It's a brand new store though, how would they know how much stock loss would occour?

Every other supermarket in the local area, including Aldi have had self checkouts for at least 5 years now.

Trust me stock loss through self checkouts at all retailers is huge. The discounters seem to be removing them from many stores.

 

[jon0844]

It's to do with the levels of stock loss through self checkouts.

I never used to see security at the exit of my Aldi, but now I do (not always, but certainly anything is better than when it was zero) and they've not long had self checkouts installed. That said, on my last visit they were all taped off!

I prefer self scanning and in the last month, I have been chosen for a random rescan about 50% of the time which suggests that either they suddenly don't trust me, or they're doing a LOT more checking.

I'm actually blocked by Waitrose because I was picked for a random rescan for one single item, and the lady couldn't log in on her terminal do the check. She suggested I save time by just going to another till and ignoring the check, insisting I'd be fine, but obviously I then got blacklisted. They say they've lifted it, but the app still rejects me when I try and activate it.

 

[Edsmith]

Trust me stock loss through self checkouts at all retailers is huge. The discounters seem to be removing them from many stores.

However they do speed things up considerably.

 

[Blindtraveler]

If retailers are finally waking up to the complete fallacy of self-checkouts then it's all good as far as I'm concerned, I've never liked them and would be very glad to see every single last one can find to a skip