Sunday Services

[Greenback]

Following the West Yorks thread in Fares and Ticketing, I have been thinking about the level of Sunday services in general. Are the levels of service provided the right amount, too much, or not enough?

In my area, it seems to be just right, although I am a bit mystified that it's not possible to get amorning train down to Saundersfoot, Tenby and Pembroke for a day out!

 

[Z12XE]

In East Anglia it's about right - especially on the lines south of Ipswich. The only line which seems to get a poor deal is Felixstowe which has a fairly late start.

 

[anthony263]

South wales tends to have good sunday services, The only bad points i can think of are the services to North wales & the valley lines.

I think the following routes should have better sunday services:

Maesteg - Cardiff - Cheltenham Spa ( 2 hourly - also free ups the Milford Haven/Carmarthen - Manchester services to run non stop between Bridgend & Cardiff Central)

Cardiff - Ebbw Vale ( Hourly service)

Valley Lines:

Hourly services on all routes with the exception of the Coryton - Cardiff - Radyr service which could be every 90 minutes

 

[Greenback]

I think the two hourly services on most of the Valley Lines is a bit sparse.

 

[anthony263]

rhymney does need an hourly service and since they want more people using the valley lines network then extra sunday services may be a good thing.

 

[323235]

Manchester-Stoke local service is very poor and is now on GMITA's hit list for improvement as they have highlighted it as being one of the worst Sunday services in the North West with 3 trains each way and they have an aspiration for it to be Hourly in the future at least as far as Macclesfield.

Apart from that, most services seem fairly acceptable.

 

[cuccir]

Where I live in Durham we're OK on a Sunday having only mainline services anyway.

Barrow-in-Furness - hometown as opposed to current home - is terrible on the other hand. Nothing northbound on a Sunday (compared to 14 M-F), southbound only 7 trains, 3 to Lancaster, 1 to Preston, 4 to Manc Airport (compared to 19 southbound M-F): a total service reduction of 79%! There is at least a morning service (09:25) so you can get on to the wider network at a reasonable time.

Obviously anyone living between Whitehaven and Barrow on the Cumbrian Coast Line has even more reason to complain about Sunday trains; the only alternative public transport to the absent trains is provided by 4 buses, which take 3 hours to do the length of the trip!

 

[trentside]

Local services on the local lines in Lincolnshire is very poor. I brought this up a few weeks ago and discovered it was due to Network Rail only paying for one shift of signalling staff. The first services of the day aren't till mid-afternoon, and are often very busy.

 

[OMGitsDAVE]

To an extent, the Newcastle - Middlesbrough line is both poorly & well served on Sundays. There should be an earlier morning train, and perhaps a few later services, and around midday there should be additional ones - but apart from that we're fine here!

 

[sprinterguy]

The main problem I have with Sunday services is not so much the frequency on many lines, but the start times of the services. I have quite limited knowledge of the Sunday services in the areas of the country I have experienced in comparison to the Monday to Saturday service, as I try to avoid travelling by train on Sundays wherever possible.

One of the defining factors governing this decision for me (alongside probable engineering works during the course of a journey) is the late start times for services: For leisure purposes, which must be the predominant train use on Sundays, I often make long journeys to reach the areas I am intending to visit, and I appreciate an early start so that I can reach my destination with as many hours of the day available to me to do as I please, and this is difficult to do on a Sunday. Service frequency only becomes an issue when connections have to be made, where long waiting times at intermediate stations also reduce the amount of time I have available to me at my destination.

A few examples from my experience:
Birmingham Cross City line: The frequency is phenomenally poor on a Sunday, when you compare it to the ten minute (15 on evenings in 10/20 minute intervals) weekday service, and other comparable “Metro” style routes elsewhere in the UK. With just one train every half an hour, it puts this heavily used route on a par with the somewhat neglected (service wise) Chase Line to Rugeley.

Walsall fares better, as it has the same 15 minute service on a Sunday that it does on a weekday, with a half hourly electric service and half hourly diesel service through to Rugeley Town. Though the Sunday service from Walsall to Rugeley Town is to be cut back to hourly after December.

Meanwhile, up in the north east, the 15 minute Sunday frequency of the Tyne and Wear Metro between Sunderland and Newcastle is very reasonable. And it’s even better on the core Pelaw to South Gosforth section, where the Sunderland services are running alongside the South Shields ones. Can’t remember what the old heavy rail service was like before the Metro came to Sunderland, think it was half hourly on Sunday, I have an old timetable from 1994 somewhere I’ll have to dig out and have a look.

The Tyne Valley line, Metrocentre-Carlisle, and Durham Coast line, Stockton-Sunderland, are pretty rubbish: Hourly for both, there should at least be a half hourly service to Hexham from Newcastle as there is on a weekday, it’s a very popular destination with tourists. That said, the Hexham to Carlisle and Stockton to Sunderland lines are just as bad on a weekday too: It’s not so much that the Sunday service is bad, just that the ENTIRE service is lousy.

EDIT: AARRGGHH, the size of that post has grown out of all proportion compared to what I had planned, sorry for the lengthy read folks!

 

[yTocynnwr]

One train in each direction on a Sunday on my local line, the Cambrian Coast. Would be nice to have two maybe but not sure it would get used through the winter.

 

[dk1]

Cambridge to Norwich has been ok except for a late start from Cambridge on a Sunday which doesnt arrive Norwich til 12.08 & the early last return at 20.15 (20.49 EMT changing Ely but doesnt serve local stns). This will be resolved from December with the first arrival into Norwich at 10.08, a later return at 22.03 plus an additional 10.03 giving hourly departures from 09.03-18.03.

 

[mickey]

Local services where I live tend to be ok on a Sunday. Merseyrail has a half frequency starting around 8am, and some branches (Hooton, Southport in summer) see little different from the rest of the week.

My main annoyance is LM services Liverpool-Birmingham, which don't start until lunchtime. I know LM's Sunday problems are legendary and not entirely the company's fault, but I really wish it were better.

Northern's lack of 'express' trains to Wigan/Preston is annoying too, but at least they do still run services that will get you there.

 

[merlodlliw]

One train in each direction on a Sunday on my local line, the Cambrian Coast. Would be nice to have two maybe but not sure it would get used through the winter.

Gwynedd County Council wont pay for a second train to run.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I think most mainline services are good on Sundays (except for the mass overcrowding!), but some services suprise me, such as Whitehaven-Carlsile and Crewe-Derby, suppose its because of that single-shift signaller thing. Lucky here, we fall entirely under Preston PSB

 

[323235]

A few examples from my experience:
Birmingham Cross City line: The frequency is phenomenally poor on a Sunday, when you compare it to the ten minute (15 on evenings in 10/20 minute intervals) weekday service, and other comparable “Metro” style routes elsewhere in the UK. With just one train every half an hour, it puts this heavily used route on a par with the somewhat neglected (service wise) Chase Line to Rugeley.

Walsall fares better, as it has the same 15 minute service on a Sunday that it does on a weekday, with a half hourly electric service and half hourly diesel service through to Rugeley Town. Though the Sunday service from Walsall to Rugeley Town is to be cut back to hourly after December.

Walsall actually gets 2tph on a Sunday, one Electric at xx17 and a Rugeley Diesel at xx40.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

One around here with no Sunday trains is Preston-Ormskirk, which is signalled by smaller boxes I think, but, with Liv-wigan-preston trains being all stations on Sundays, it may be quicker via Ormskirk, sadly we'll never know . Out of interest, why are random stations such as Iver, West Drayton (?) and Prittlewell shut on Sundays?

 

[Bevan Price]

Local services where I live tend to be ok on a Sunday. Merseyrail has a half frequency starting around 8am, and some branches (Hooton, Southport in summer) see little different from the rest of the week.

My main annoyance is LM services Liverpool-Birmingham, which don't start until lunchtime. I know LM's Sunday problems are legendary and not entirely the company's fault, but I really wish it were better.

Northern's lack of 'express' trains to Wigan/Preston is annoying too, but at least they do still run services that will get you there.

But if Liverpool or Everton have a home football match on Sunday, it can be difficult to get a seat, or even get on some of the trains.

I think one problem is that rail (& bus) companies have not adjusted to the fact that Sunday is now one of the busiest shopping days in large towns/cities , and that many of these shoppers would like a decent rail / bus service on Sundays.

Bevan

 

[87015]

Prittlewell shut on Sundays?

To stop the huge amount of blatant effing that goes on there.

 

[starlightEXPRESS]

Under Thames Trains the North Downs Line (Reading - Gatwick) used to have a similar service pattern to weekday services (hourly semi-fast to Gatwick and a two hourly stopper to Redhill). FGW cut this back to a single stopping service per hour serving minor stations either side of Guildford in alternate hours. The trains are rammed full now, particularly in the afternoon - early evening. There must surely be a case for going back to the old TT Sunday timetable on this line.

 

[Zoe]

I don't understand why Bank Holidays get a near normal weekday service on the railways when only a Sunday service would be demanded. Most buses run to a Sunday timetable.

 

[ukrob]

My major problem with Sunday services is running around 2 car DMUs in the north west which are totally rammed. Reducing the services by two thirds AND running 2 car DMUs is not acceptable - double them up. They do not all receive maintenance on Sundays, it is just penny pinching because they are meeting the minimum service requirements so have no incentive to double up DMUs.

I actively avoid using trains on Sunday for this reason - the risk of not being able to get on.

 

[sprinterguy]

Walsall actually gets 2tph on a Sunday, one Electric at xx17 and a Rugeley Diesel at xx40.

Oh yeah, so it is. I was looking at the wrong page of the timetable somehow to jog my memory. That's a fairly basic service level for a PTE area.

 

[12CSVT]

Even some routes out of London are pretty much useless on Sundays. The first Sheffield train out of St Pancras doesn't reach its destination until early afternoon. Yet for several years there has been a train departing Leicester at around 10.00 bound for York. Why not start that one at Bedford to provide connections from FCC services and enable people from London to reach Derby and Sheffield at a more reasonable time.

 

[Mojo]

Given Sunday evenings are the busiest time of the week for Intercity services in most places after Friday afternoons, the service does certainly leave something to be desired in many places where the typical halfhourly frequency is reduced to hourly. Saying that, Sunday services on such routes have improved dramatically in certain years. My 1983 timetable shows about 5 services between Birmingham and Bristol on a Sunday, one of which is a Regional service with Second class only! Nowadays when there aren't engineering work the same halfhourly service operates (with a later start time, but the same finish time), except when there are engineering works.

 

[reb0118]

As you should all know by now the later starts on a Sunday are to allow we rail staff to have a wee bevvie on a Saturday night and not have to worry about being over the limit on the Sunday morning. Where should every self respecting British person be on a Sunday morning but in bed (not necessarily your own) nursing a hangover

In all seriousness though I think we all deserve a day of rest, & that includes rail staff, & with the exception of leisure activities more shops & businesses should close on a Sunday. People would then have one day to visit friends & family, do something local (no transport req apart from shank's pony or cycle), do the garden/lie on the couch or how about this radical thought - even go to church

However I believe we do need Sunday trains. With some obvious exceptions, eg the Cumbrian Coast Line (CBC), I think services are adequate BUT I think we definitely need LONGER trains on a Sunday.

 

[Fred26]

Out of interest, why are random stations such as... Prittlewell shut on Sundays?

I've always been told that it's because Prittlewell was built on consecrated land. That'd be a massive cop-out though, especially when it's open if Southend United are at home on a Sunday.

The problem with Prittlewell is it only ever has one member of staff, part-time, Monday to Saturday. It used to be quite amusing when someone would try to buy a ticket to Prittlewell from Southend Victoria on a Sunday and I'd say, 'it's not open.' The reply would be, 'what's the next stop? I'll go there.' 'Not with a ticket from me you won't.'
Basically, if you want Prittlewell from Southend Victoria, you're better of walking than going to Rochford. That was the easiest spotting of fare evaders ever.

 

[jopsuk]

Cambridge is well served on its Electric lines on a Sunday- very rarely use the disel services so can't comment on them. The Kings Lynn service (hourly during the week) remains, and is still fast Cambridge-Kings Cross. The other Cambridge Express is cut out, but there's still the hourly semi-fast and hourly slow services on that line. On the West Anglia, the faster service remains the same (hourly), whilst the slower stopping (hourly) service becomes the Lea Valley stopper south of Chesunt. Timetabled to terminate at Stratford, but with Olympic works tends to go to Liverpool Street instead.

 

[sonic2009]

How about ashchurch, maybe get the xc nottingham - cardiff to stop 2hourly because the service on a sunday doesn't start until 1356 towards worcester and 1451 towards cheltenham/bristol.....

 

[Greenback]

One of the defining factors governing this decision for me (alongside probable engineering works during the course of a journey) is the late start times for services: For leisure purposes, which must be the predominant train use on Sundays, I often make long journeys to reach the areas I am intending to visit, and I appreciate an early start so that I can reach my destination with as many hours of the day available to me to do as I please, and this is difficult to do on a Sunday. Service frequency only becomes an issue when connections have to be made, where long waiting times at intermediate stations also reduce the amount of time I have available to me at my destination.

Yes, most travel will be for leisure purposes on a Sunday. There doesn't seem, to be much demand for an early start (although it depends on your definition of early!) but some places seem to have afirst train at late morning or even later, which isn;t much good for a day out.

Gwynedd County Council wont pay for a second train to run.

The WAG could pay ibnstead of funding WAGair!

But if Liverpool or Everton have a home football match on Sunday, it can be difficult to get a seat, or even get on some of the trains.

I think one problem is that rail (& bus) companies have not adjusted to the fact that Sunday is now one of the busiest shopping days in large towns/cities , and that many of these shoppers would like a decent rail / bus service on Sundays.

I agree. I think that Sunday is a very important day for shopping now, and there are far more sporting events on Sundays than there used to be.

I don't understand why Bank Holidays get a near normal weekday service on the railways when only a Sunday service would be demanded. Most buses run to a Sunday timetable.

I have never understood this. New Year's Day in particular! I remmebr one time when the early shift at Reading sold about 21 tickets before 1100 on January 1st!

Given Sunday evenings are the busiest time of the week for Intercity services in most places after Friday afternoons, the service does certainly leave something to be desired in many places where the typical halfhourly frequency is reduced to hourly. Saying that, Sunday services on such routes have improved dramatically in certain years. My 1983 timetable shows about 5 services between Birmingham and Bristol on a Sunday, one of which is a Regional service with Second class only! Nowadays when there aren't engineering work the same halfhourly service operates (with a later start time, but the same finish time), except when there are engineering works.

There's no doubt that Sunday services are better now than they were in 1983, but the question is whether they meet the needs of today's passengers! It looks like there is great disparity across the country, based partly on historical reasons, and partly on the cost of staffing.

As you should all know by now the later starts on a Sunday are to allow we rail staff to have a wee bevvie on a Saturday night and not have to worry about being over the limit on the Sunday morning. Where should every self respecting British person be on a Sunday morning but in bed (not necessarily your own) nursing a hangover

In all seriousness though I think we all deserve a day of rest, & that includes rail staff, & with the exception of leisure activities more shops & businesses should close on a Sunday. People would then have one day to visit friends & family, do something local (no transport req apart from shank's pony or cycle), do the garden/lie on the couch or how about this radical thought - even go to church

However I believe we do need Sunday trains. With some obvious exceptions, eg the Cumbrian Coast Line (CBC), I think services are adequate BUT I think we definitely need LONGER trains on a Sunday.

I'd be the last person to suggest that anyone loses a rest day! I think that there iss cope for improvement though, given the popularity of travel on a Sunday now. We often nip off and visit friends in different areas, staying over on a Saturday night, and the Sunday trains back on routes where there is a much reduced service are always rammed! Add in football and rugby matches, and I think we need more trains in some places!