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Suicide on the Railways

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ReverendFozz

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Hi, I hope it is ok to post this topic, I hope I am not being insensitive in posting this, I apologise if this is the case.

I would like to know if anyone here has been witness to a suicide on the Tube, I only ask because many years ago, I witnessed a death at Kings Cross St Pancras Underground, and I was recalling my experience with a friend recently, talking about dark places and the utter feeling of hopelessness, and it brought back some memories, the suicide at Kings Cross, which affected me greatly, I went to London at least once or twice a year for about 5 years at the time and the first few times I went back, I would not anywhere near a tube station, and when I finally plucked up the courage to go back on the Tube, I had to stand back to a point where I could hardly see the platform and people on it, people too close to the edge frightens the hell out of me. I think when it happened I just ran away in tears and pretty much onto the first train back home utterly speechless, devastated and upset

So what is others views on this, what did it have, if it is ok for me to ask.

It also got me thinking about the feeling of utter hopelessness and despair, about a year after, I made an attempt myself, I did not have the balls to go under a train, I simply perched myself on Durham Viaduct hoping a non stop train would blow me off the edge, luckily BTP got to me and successfully reached out and I thank god every day I am still here...

Your thoughts please
 
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LCC106

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Personally I haven't experienced this, but as a newly qualified driver it is something that plays on my mind a lot more than it should!

We discussed this topic in training, when we were told the law of averages as a driver is that you will have a fatality once every 11 years.

I know a driver who has had 2 in 20-ish years. 1 guy at his depot had none in 30-odd whilst another had 6 in the same amount of time.

From a driver point of view I have to think that, if it's suicide, it's the train that has struck the individual and not me who has killed someone. In fact, as was put to me the other day, the route the train travels is a definite certainty. The movement a pedestrian makes is the thing you can't have control over. It's the genuine accidents that are truly more difficult to try to comprehend coping with.

I have been told that there is an excellent chain of care at work where such events occur.

Many stations now how Samaritan posters on but I can't believe that would make much of a difference to people in such a desperate mental state. They surely aren't thinking of what the driver / conductor / passengers / BTP / forensic team / other rail officials / all of these people's (and their own) family and friends have to cope with in the aftermath. I understand that the Samaritans have been seen at Adwick station following 2 suicides in 2 days recently.

Were I a commuter in the situation you found yourself in, I've no idea how it would affect me but I DO understand your reaction. I don't know, however, what support if any is given to witnesses on a platform / on the train etc.

I would urge ANYONE who witnesses such a terrible sight to speak to their GP and ask for support. It really is out there for anyone who needs it.
 

ReverendFozz

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Personally I haven't experienced this, but as a newly qualified driver it is something that plays on my mind a lot more than it should!

We discussed this topic in training, when we were told the law of averages as a driver is that you will have a fatality once every 11 years.

I know a driver who has had 2 in 20-ish years. 1 guy at his depot had none in 30-odd whilst another had 6 in the same amount of time.

From a driver point of view I have to think that, if it's suicide, it's the train that has struck the individual and not me who has killed someone. In fact, as was put to me the other day, the route the train travels is a definite certainty. The movement a pedestrian makes is the thing you can't have control over. It's the genuine accidents that are truly more difficult to try to comprehend coping with.

I have been told that there is an excellent chain of care at work where such events occur.

Many stations now how Samaritan posters on but I can't believe that would make much of a difference to people in such a desperate mental state. They surely aren't thinking of what the driver / conductor / passengers / BTP / forensic team / other rail officials / all of these people's (and their own) family and friends have to cope with in the aftermath. I understand that the Samaritans have been seen at Adwick station following 2 suicides in 2 days recently.

Were I a commuter in the situation you found yourself in, I've no idea how it would affect me but I DO understand your reaction. I don't know, however, what support if any is given to witnesses on a platform / on the train etc.

I would urge ANYONE who witnesses such a terrible sight to speak to their GP and ask for support. It really is out there for anyone who needs it.

I second what you say mate, in my experience, it was weird for me, I was nowhere near the guy, as I have always been tall(nearly 6' at 15/16), I could see over most people stood around me, saw I had something of an unobstructed view, even though I was at a distance, but, to this day, I cannot remember what I was supposed to be doing in London, I just remember a screeching female banshee like scream, wail and cry and running away like I had just committed a crime myself and the screech of the anchors on the train, I didnt stick around to witness the aftermath.

It must have left staff bemused on the gateline when a hysterical 15/16 year old come sprinting through demanding to be let back through the gateline, no questions asked.

I saw an interesting short film a while ago Tube Tales, a collection of shorts about the Tube, and one of them was called My Father, The Liar which dealt with this issue, the father lying to his kid to protect him, and that is what I did I guess, put my own defences up, lied to myself in order to protect myself...The short film is on youtube

Sent from my GT-P3110 using Tapatalk 2
 

robby p

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This is a very misunderstood subject on the railway. I unfortunately was involved in a suicide attempt a few months after I passed out as a driver when my train struck a person.

Before I became a driver on the national rail network I worked as station staff for London Underground. I fortunately wasn't involved in any suicide attempts but friends and colleagues did. At the station staff grade I feel you forgotten about. You may witness the event or aftermath or both but as you wasn't directly involved with the actual attempt it is perceived you were not affected which couldn't be further from the truth.

When I became a driver things changed slightly. I would say 60/70% of my depot had been involved with a suicide on the railway so in general had slightly more knowledge about it. It helps with your own recovery as the majority of drivers will happily describe their experiences so it becomes more real. The best thing that helped me was when I got back to work was another driver approached me and shook my hand and simply said: 'welcome to the club, you can now add a notch to the side of your train!' as horrible as it sounds it helped me think I wasn't the only one and they were all there to help. I wouldn't say the help staff receive is adequate. I was pretty much told I was ok by counselling but how did they know what was really going through my mind! As humans we generally say 'I'm ok' even when we're not so don't receive the help we actually need.

I recently attended a one day course run by a Samaritans trainer on how to talk to suicidal people. It was a fantastic course as it gives you a very in depth insight into why people attempt committing suicide and how to approach such a person. I believe every member or rail staff should have the chance to attend!

As for my comment earlier about it being a misunderstood subject, this course totally opens you eyes. People who attempt suicide generally don't do it on impulse one day. They generally have had a series of events that have driven them to this. For example: a guy gets caught drink driving. He loses his license and subsequently loses his job as a result. Money troubles begin which breaks up his marriage and his wife leaves him and he is left homeless and without anything. All his friends side with his wife so he's alone with no one to speak to. As all this is happening he is sliding down the scale towards suicide but as he's sliding down his perspective on life is becoming restricted. He cannot see simple things like how his family will be affected or the effects it will have on the train driver, other railway staff and police etc.

You mainly get 'how selfish' comments when talking about suicides but it simply isn't true. Their position has made it impossible to think of others and aren't involving everyone on purpose, they are simply not in the frame of mind to be thinking of the consequences of their actions.
 

tractakid

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While I didn't see them jump, I did arrive on the southbound Bakerloo platform at Waterloo on 31/10/12 to see a train stopped half way in the platform. The driver opened the doors for the front carriages that had reached the platform, as I looked toward the rear of the train I saw a body sandwiched between the train and the platform. I looked away fairly quickly, went up to the mainline station and sat down for a few minutes.

It wasn't nice to see, but I am glad I didn't actually see it happen, I imagine that would be more traumatic.

Turns out someone my mum knows was on the rear of that train, stuck for ages.
 

142056

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You mainly get 'how selfish' comments when talking about suicides but it simply isn't true. Their position has made it impossible to think of others and aren't involving everyone on purpose, they are simply not in the frame of mind to be thinking of the consequences of their actions.

It's true, this is people's attitude. I once explained the points you raised in your previous post to a lady sat opposite me who questioned "why they couldn't find another way to go" because it had delayed us for 2hrs going from Cambridge to King's Cross.
I find it shocking that people are so insensitive to the fact that someone has just taken their life and all they worry about is how late they are/how much disruption it has caused.
 

455driver

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If somebody wants to end it all there are many ways to do it which do not traumatise other people, cause inconvenience to several 100/1000s of people and involve a hose pipe and 1/2 a tonne of sand. So yes it is selfish and yes I do realise that their mind is not considering other people when they made the decision, just because they are not in a right frame of mind doesnt make the act any less selfish.
 

ushawk

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Ive witnessed one before at Wimbledon, not a nice experience but at the time it didnt affect me. I kind of just jumped into helping as much as i could even though im not rail staff, things like talking to those who were clearly in shock after witnessing it and helping the staff clear the platform.

Wasnt until later that night when it actually sunk in what happened and i just broke down. No long term affects as its something you have to accept that happens.

Worst thing was the noise if anything, worse than seeing what was left really.
 

ATW Alex 101

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Not entirely on topic but it sort of ties in, but on one of my first days of senior school I, along with many other people, witnessed a bloke getting hit by a car outside school. Just the thud then seeing him slide along the floor shook me up as bit, luckily he got up and tried to walk away (you could tell he was in pain) then a teacher got to him before calling an ambulance.

It turned out he was an uncle of a student and he got away with a broken arm and a few broken ribs so very lucky. He decided not to press charges to the driver I believe as well but even the driver was pretty shook up and very distressed by the incident as well. The next day the learning mentor (who is no longer there) offered some sort of counselling if it was getting to people bad enough, but I don't think anybody went.

Even though the consequences weren't too bad just the thud and seeing him sliding along the floor kept playing over in my mind for a few days, not exactly pleasant really so seeing it happen on a train is considerably worse.
 

ralphchadkirk

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I've never been involved in one, although a good friend of mine attended his first a couple of months ago. The person was alive when airlifted to the MTC, but I've no idea what the outcome was.
 

Oswyntail

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One day in the late 90s I was going from Kings Cross to Elephant, and someone jumped just as I got to the Northern platform. As another has written, I went onto "helper" mode and did what I could to calm other people down. The line was closed, so I went down to Oxford Circus. Just as i reached the Bakerloo platform, another person jumped. Again, I just helped out. It was only when i reached my meeting that the enormity of the day sunk in.
But, as to the "selfish" aspect, in my experience suicidal people are often far from selfish, quite the opposite. They have convinced themselves that everyone else would be better without them, and their suicide becomes an altruistic act for the benefit of others. That is how far outside rational they have become - and that is why the criticism "selfish" actually has no meaning in this context.
 

millemille

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Having spent ~20 years as a line of route fitter and then on-call FTO and FRE I've attended the aftermath of numerous suicides both successful and not.

The number of unsuccessful attempts far outweighs those that achieved what the victim wanted and the sheer savagery of the injuries of the survivors should be enough to put anyone off seeking the railway as a place to end their life.
 

ralphchadkirk

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I don't know about the unsuccessful v successful attempts. The person may well not die on scene, but later in surgery.

The injuries sustained can be horrific.
 

DiscoStu

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.... But, as to the "selfish" aspect, in my experience suicidal people are often far from selfish, quite the opposite. They have convinced themselves that everyone else would be better without them, and their suicide becomes an altruistic act for the benefit of others. That is how far outside rational they have become - and that is why the criticism "selfish" actually has no meaning in this context.


Well said.
 

asylumxl

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If somebody wants to end it all there are many ways to do it which do not traumatise other people, cause inconvenience to several 100/1000s of people and involve a hose pipe and 1/2 a tonne of sand. So yes it is selfish and yes I do realise that their mind is not considering other people when they made the decision, just because they are not in a right frame of mind doesnt make the act any less selfish.

I agree whole heartedly. There are many ways to top yourself but I cannot think of one which affects more people than jumping in front of a train. To be honest, to me anyway, it seems the most melodramatic way commit suicide and I wonder if that suggests anything about the character of the people who do so.

I'm sure somebody will come along and try and justify why these people do these things and explain their train of thought (no pun intended). It will just prove how often people assume things about people they don't know.
 

ChiefPlanner

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Ive witnessed one before at Wimbledon, not a nice experience but at the time it didnt affect me. I kind of just jumped into helping as much as i could even though im not rail staff, things like talking to those who were clearly in shock after witnessing it and helping the staff clear the platform.

Wasnt until later that night when it actually sunk in what happened and i just broke down. No long term affects as its something you have to accept that happens.

Worst thing was the noise if anything, worse than seeing what was left really.

Good post - helping at the scene (and restoring service , assisting bystanders etc) - focuses the mind. Its only afterwards when it sinks in. Always , always seek help (if only a pint of beer with a sympathetic mate) to clear the mind. It never bothered me at the time - but you cannot help thinking about it - even on a transient basis , for a long time afterwards.
 

ralphchadkirk

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I agree whole heartedly. There are many ways to top yourself but I cannot think of one which affects more people than jumping in front of a train. To be honest, to me anyway, it seems the most melodramatic way commit suicide and I wonder if that suggests anything about the character of the people who do so.

I'm sure somebody will come along and try and justify why these people do these things and explain their train of thought (no pun intended). It will just prove how often people assume things about people they don't know.

I have to agree here. Previously, I did argue that people prepared to throw themselves in front of trains were not in the correct frame of mind and that therefore it wasn't selfish. Since then, having come into contact with a number of "suicidal" people my opinion has somewhat changed. I now think that people are capable of judging the gravity of their actions but choose to do it anyway. Perhaps selfish isn't the right word, but it certainly seems that way sometimes.
 

Mutant Lemming

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If somebody wants to end it all there are many ways to do it which do not traumatise other people, cause inconvenience to several 100/1000s of people and involve a hose pipe and 1/2 a tonne of sand. So yes it is selfish and yes I do realise that their mind is not considering other people when they made the decision, just because they are not in a right frame of mind doesnt make the act any less selfish.

It is a bit pointless in labeling someone with a mental illness as selfish. Unfortunately treating mental illness takes a low priority ever since Thatcher decided that 'Care in the community' could do a better job than a hospital. Would it not be better to diagnose people as at risk and help them rather than call them selfish once they're a corpse ?
 

ushawk

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Good post - helping at the scene (and restoring service , assisting bystanders etc) - focuses the mind. Its only afterwards when it sinks in. Always , always seek help (if only a pint of beer with a sympathetic mate) to clear the mind. It never bothered me at the time - but you cannot help thinking about it - even on a transient basis , for a long time afterwards.

Different people react differently and its something like a one under which demonstrates this, some, like me, will immediately try helping, some will be in shock, some may be immediately hysterical about seeing someone potentially being killed in very shocking circumstances and some might not actually be affected by it at all.

Talking about it helps get it out your system ive found.
 

umontu

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Hi, I hope it is ok to post this topic, I hope I am not being insensitive in posting this, I apologise if this is the case.

I would like to know if anyone here has been witness to a suicide on the Tube, I only ask because many years ago, I witnessed a death at Kings Cross St Pancras Underground, and I was recalling my experience with a friend recently, talking about dark places and the utter feeling of hopelessness, and it brought back some memories, the suicide at Kings Cross, which affected me greatly, I went to London at least once or twice a year for about 5 years at the time and the first few times I went back, I would not anywhere near a tube station, and when I finally plucked up the courage to go back on the Tube, I had to stand back to a point where I could hardly see the platform and people on it, people too close to the edge frightens the hell out of me. I think when it happened I just ran away in tears and pretty much onto the first train back home utterly speechless, devastated and upset

So what is others views on this, what did it have, if it is ok for me to ask.

It also got me thinking about the feeling of utter hopelessness and despair, about a year after, I made an attempt myself, I did not have the balls to go under a train, I simply perched myself on Durham Viaduct hoping a non stop train would blow me off the edge, luckily BTP got to me and successfully reached out and I thank god every day I am still here...

Your thoughts please

Recently I witnessed a person fall 25 feet and land head first in front of me in a building a use every day. At first I thought it could only be a suicide attempt however, the police told me it was an accident.

I can't stand on the balcony of the floor he fell from and feel comfortable any more. However I try to just get on with things because I have to. It's not easy but it is coping with it.

Luckily (Sounds stupid in that sense) a friend witnessed it also. Me and her have been able to cope together and we've become closer but the event is still very painful for both of us.

Not rail related but it was a huge shock. Your reaction, except the later part and the fact I stayed to talk to the police officers and a councillor is similar to what I had. It is never easy.
I knew that if I ran away and tried to avoid dealing with the fact of what had happend then I'd struggle to cope.

I hope you're feeling better. :)
 

455driver

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Would it not be better to diagnose people as at risk and help them rather than call them selfish once they're a corpse ?

They are not a corpse, they are normally several 100 bits of flesh scattered over 200 yards of railway line/station/anyone stood in the firing line, how is that not selfish or whatever other word you chose to use!

Believe me "selfish" is about the only word I call them that I can post on here, I do have several different words for them though!

If anyone is thinking of throwing themselves in front of a train I would gladly supply the jump leads so they can plug themselves into the mains or give them a bottle of whisky/whiskey and a bottle of pills so they can do it in private inconveniencing nobody but the poor sod that finds them.
 

DiscoStu

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If somebody wants to end it all there are many ways to do it which do not traumatise other people, cause inconvenience to several 100/1000s of people and involve a hose pipe and 1/2 a tonne of sand. So yes it is selfish and yes I do realise that their mind is not considering other people when they made the decision, just because they are not in a right frame of mind doesnt make the act any less selfish.


It's all me, me, me with these suicidals, innit :roll:
 

Trog

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On the P-Way there was a tradition of telling gory stories about deaths and suicides witnessed on the line. I think it was a protective reaction, as it makes past and future incidents seem less real, and hence easier to deal with.
 

mr_moo

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I've witnessed a suicide. Not on the tube but on the main line railway. Cricklewood. A Monday morning, about 10.30, back in February (IIRC) of 2004.

I was the COSS (Controller of Site Safety) for a workgroup, doing surveys. We were in the 10ft / wideway between the fast lines and slow lines. I heard the train coming, looked towards it and raised my hand in acknowledgement, then watched a man crouch down on the platform and roll himself forwards off the platform just as the train was about to pass him.

I watched the train hit him.

I dropped to the ground as ballast and other things sprayed around me whilst the train went past with its emergency brakes on. I then went to the station and phoned the signaller - my first 'real' emergency call.

First on scene were a two-person ambulance crew. One was a veteran and had seen it many times before, describing it as "sounds like a purple purple" when I explained what was awaiting them. The second was a young lady. She'd joined the service only a few months before and had never seen anything like this. She nearly threw up when she got to the platform end.

I escorted them down onto the track to officially verify the person was dead but it was pretty obvious. I wont go into graphic details, despite the fact that I can still remember those graphic details as clearly as yesterday, but there was no chance the person was still alive. I saw things that day I hope I never see again.

Next up was the fire service. The white-hat officer marched up and took charge of the situation, barking "person in charge?" to everyone in orange until he got to me. At that point I spotted the MOM arriving through the access gate so I pointed to him and said I had been in charge up till then but he would be taking over.

I was officially interviewed by the BTP and offered counselling but I refused it.

The signaller asked for the contact details of my line manager and he phoned my office to tell them what had happened. My boss phoned and made sure I was ok.

When it was cleared up and the station re-opened we went back to work, continuing almost as if nothing had happened. We were working in the sidings later that day and were joking about what may have happened differently had it been a different type of train, for example, we had some with protruding couplers and we were saying that it may have been impaled and been harder to remove, poor sods in the cleaning depot etc. Harsh, but I suppose we had the brutal choices of joke about it or let it depress us, so we chose the former and got on with the job.

At 5PM that day I locked the access gate, having finished the day's work, and drove away from the site. At 5.05 I stopped the car in a petrol station because I was unable to continue. I phoned my wife and her first words were "Hello, I see you've had some fun down there - all the trains were up the creek". I replied with "I've watched someone die.". I then cried and chatted to her for about 20 minutes before getting a strong coffee and some chocolate and finding the nerve to drive home again. This was Cricklewood - bottom of M1. I lived in Coventry - Junction 17 of M1, then along the M45 and A45. A long way!

My driving was reckless and too fast. I didn't care. I just wanted to be home. By coincidence I'd arranged to meet my parents that night too. Their opening gambit was "How was your day at work?". My reply was "I watched someone die today". The conversation that evening was a little subdued after that.

The detail I can remember is incredible. The man on the platform rolling forwards. The train braking. The unpleasant scene. The words to the paramedics. The young paramedic lady feeling ill herself at the sight. The in-control fire officer. The phone calls. All crystal clear as if it were yesterday. They probably always will be. Interestingly I cannot remember the man actually being hit - I think I blanked that bit out.

A month or so later I was summoned to the coroners court to give witness evidence. I met the train driver and the family of the man who died. I know his name, I spoke to his mother. I saw pictures of him.
Chatting to the train driver, he was un-bothered. It was his second fatality and he said that some drivers just carry on and some never drive again. He just carried on. He recalls seeing me in the wideway and apparently he was predominantly concerned about our well-being when making the call - he was worried that we may have been hit or affected in some way. When I made my emergency call, I was concerned for the driver as I thought he may have gone into shock or something.

The signaller was very helpful and reassured us both that the other one was fine.

I have three key memories from the trial.
1) Seeing the CCTV footage of the man falling forwards and the footage being described as "supporting my evidence".
2) The verdict: "<Name> took his own life while the balance of his mind was disturbed".
3) The words from his mother: "Thank you". "What for?" I asked. She said that it was comforting to know that I was there in the last moments, even if unwillingly, and that I did all I could to call the emergency services, block the line and clear the station. It was also helpful for her in terms of closure to have someone describe his last moments and exactly how he died, however disturbing the scenario - at least she knew what really happened.

I never did have any counselling - I feel this will drag it all up too much. I was offered it several times but always refused it. I can still remember many detail, as I've described, but I don't feel upset by them. In fact I feel that I would be well placed to deal with another one should I ever find myself in that scenario.

I'll quite happily go back to Cricklewood. I did in fact. That was day 1 of 5 days of work down there - I was back for the rest of the week to continue the job.

It's always there. I talk about it sometimes. I think about it sometimes. I don't think those memories will ever be forgotten. I don't feel I've been badly affected by it but it's certainly affected me in some ways.

I wouldn't consider him as selfish. I learned from the court and his family that he had money troubles, a gambling problem, alcohol problems and had been suffering from depression. He'd tried to do it a few weeks before but had been talked out of it. You could see from the details that, whilst had had a good job, lots of things in his life had gone badly and he was in a very dark place. I don't think it's selfish - I think it's just that they are in a different world, one that makes very little sense in the cold logical light of day. Selfish doesn't come into it - it's just a way out.
 

GatwickDepress

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Suicide by train is often chosen over other methods for several reasons. It's easy, it's lethal, and it's relatively painless in comparison to other methods. Out of a study in Los Angeles of 28 methods*, suicide by train ranks sixth with a lethal rating of 96.2% - I suspect this would be a lot lower in the United Kingdom perhaps due to rolling stock sizes? - To put it in perspective, overdosing on non-prescription drugs has a lethalness rating of just 6.0% and electrocution 65.5%. The methods rated more lethal involve firearms, cyanide, and explosives; all of which aren't readily available in the United Kingdom unless you live in Croydon. It's also a lot easier than most obtainable methods, with just access to the track and the ability to overcome the self-preservation instinct needed. However the fatality rate drops dramatically for trains pulling into stations, which is something most people seem to forget or overlook - perhaps deliberately.

The study also gave 17.92 minutes as an opinion on the time required to produce death. The wonderfully named 'agony rating' - which is pain and discomfort ranked out of a scale of 100 - for trains is 7.08, which is distinctly low compared to other methods such as structure fire (91.5) and being hit by a road vehicle (63).

I'm certain at least some people do choose it deliberately for the melodrama it causes. Perhaps as a last way of sticking it to the world. I'm also certain that some people are too frightened/proud/have no-one to ask for help on their own and so choose a crowded place such a railway station. They're either going to survive and get given help, live on as a potato or horrifically maimed carrot, or join the choir eternal. For a method like hanging, if you bugger it up you're going to be in a lot of pain for a very long time. Of course, I'm not a qualified psychologist - yet - so those are just theories.

Suicide is already incredibly selfish already without getting down to the method, but people who are already there are already in hell. I've been in that situation before, and the guilt afterwards was incredibly overpowering. So, I do know first-hand...just from the other side of the fence...sort of.

Apologies if this comes off as some sort of advocate for suicide.

*CE Rhyne, DI Templer, LG Brown and NB Peters, “Dimensions of Suicide: Perceptions of Lethality, Time, and Agony”, in Suicide and Life-Threatening Behavior, Vol. 25(3), 1995
 

boing_uk

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Working on highways I've personally been first on scene to a couple of fatal and messy collisions and I would echo the sentiments of some others on this thread.

Black humour is one way of dealing with it and although some fund this insensitive with respect to the deceased, it is but a coping mechanism.

Oddly, while these accident scenes were quite gory it never bothered me. I guess the brain takes over to get on with what must be done to get the job jobbed. And yet, stuff on tv like surgery and the like has me retching.
 

DiscoStu

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Black humour is one way of dealing with it and although some fund this insensitive with respect to the deceased, it is but a coping mechanism.


It's a very British way of dealing with tragedy too, I think, which is fine as long as you don't do it around people who are close to the deceased.

I witnessed a man have a heart attack and die on a plane coming back from Dubai to Amsterdam last year. We made an emergency stop in Doha, where the man received medical attention, and was removed from the plane.

About an hour outside Amsterdam, the pilot announced that the man had suffered a massive heart attack, and had not made it. He also said "It's a lovely day outside, and as many of you have witnessed tonight, you never know when it will be your last, so make sure you go out and enjoy it"

Then, just before coming into land, he added "for everybody left on board, this isn't the end of your journey ...."

I like to think it made the situation easier to bare, knowing that somebody in authority was "okay" with what had happened, and it wasn't as serious for me as I first thought.
 

LCC106

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16 Nov 2011
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Thankfully I haven't been in this situation yet. However, a brave thread to post in the first place and although some comments are difficult to comprehend, I respect how others deal with the matter.

A once close friend has attended so many fatalities and this, coupled with being in 2 different war zones, contributed to PTSD. He hasn't had any professional help and we're no longer in touch.

I was upset when reading mr_moo's account, because it was raw and real, but it has helped me in a way I can't really put in to words right now.

As long as contributors are respectful then I think we have to choose whether or not we are comfortable in continuing reading...
 

DarloRich

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I agree whole heartedly. There are many ways to top yourself but I cannot think of one which affects more people than jumping in front of a train. To be honest, to me anyway, it seems the most melodramatic way commit suicide and I wonder if that suggests anything about the character of the people who do so.
I'm sure somebody will come along and try and justify why these people do these things and explain their train of thought (no pun intended). It will just prove how often people assume things about people they don't know.

just as you have done there?
 
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