Suggestions for future use of Class 332s post-HEx

[DanNCL]

Didn't realise that was Std guage, I assumed the 360s had been built to metre guage like the Thai 158s.

Yep that line is standard gauge and electrified at 25kv. The Thai 360s are near enough exactly the same as the Heathrow ones, main differences being the enlarged air con units and longitudinal seating on the Thai units.

 

[hexagon789]

Yep that line is standard gauge and electrified at 25kv. The Thai 360s are near enough exactly the same as the Heathrow ones, main differences being the enlarged air con units and longitudinal seating on the Thai units.

Do they travel at 100 mph (161 km/h) in Thailand? If not would they 332s perhaps need a regearing to match acceleration rates?

 

[DanNCL]

Do they travel at 100 mph (161 km/h) in Thailand? If not would they 332s perhaps need a regearing to match acceleration rates?

Up to 75 mph according to Wikipedia.

I somehow wouldn't be surprised if the 332s end up either with Northern or in Thailand. Again according to Wikipedia there are plans to extend the Suvarnabhumi rail link, which of course would require more trains, and 332s and 360s from Heathrow would be suitable for the line.

 

[hexagon789]

Up to 75 mph according to Wikipedia.

I somehow wouldn't be surprised if the 332s end up either with Northern or in Thailand. Again according to Wikipedia there are plans to extend the Suvarnabhumi rail link, which of course would require more trains, and 332s and 360s from Heathrow would be suitable for the line.

Seems quite a distance to ship them mind you.

 

[DanNCL]

Seems quite a distance to ship them mind you.

Can't be much worse than bringing the 395s and the first few 800s over from Japan

 

[hexagon789]

Can't be much worse than bringing the 395s and the first few 800s over from Japan

Should've left the 800s in Japan to be honest.

Where were the 360s shipped from, Germany?

Probably easier and quicker to Thailand from here than Japan.

 

[DanNCL]

Should've left the 800s in Japan to be honest.

Where were the 360s shipped from, Germany?

Probably easier and quicker to Thailand from here than Japan.

There was also that Shinkansen carriage that came over many years ago for the NRM from Japan, so transporting trains over that sort of distance can't be too difficult! Getting a bit off topic though!

I think the Thai 360s were shipped directly to Thailand from Germany. I suppose any British 360s that were to go to Thailand would visit Siemens in Germany for modifications, not sure where the 332s would go for such work though.

 

[hexagon789]

There was also that Shinkansen carriage that came over many years ago for the NRM from Japan, so transporting trains over that sort of distance can't be too difficult! Getting a bit off topic though!

I think the Thai 360s were shipped directly to Thailand from Germany. I suppose any British 360s that were to go to Thailand would visit Siemens in Germany for modifications, not sure where the 332s would go for such work though.

Perhaps sending the 360s would be better? The 332s could then get TPWS mods and go to Northern as some have suggested.

Presumably adding TPWS can't be that difficult as plenty of preserved steam, diesel and electric locos have had it done.

 

[DanNCL]

Perhaps sending the 360s would be better? The 332s could then get TPWS mods and go to Northern as some have suggested.

Presumably adding TPWS can't be that difficult as plenty of preserved steam, diesel and electric locos have had it done.

I agree.

Send the Connect 360s to Thailand, and install TPWS on the 332s and send them to Northern. TPWS was only introduced 20 or so years ago, so Pacers, Sprinters, Networkers, 319s etc must all have had TPWS retrofitted anyway so it isn't impossible to do. Could easily be done on the 332s.

IIRC the Tyne & Wear Metro fleet also lacks TPWS, and the Pelaw - Sunderland section of the Durham Coast Line was fitted with the Metro's own train protection system instead. Perhaps the same thing could be done for the 332s, installing GW ATP on some of the West Yorkshire routes if fitting the units with TPWS is impractical

 

[hexagon789]

I agree.

Send the Connect 360s to Thailand, and install TPWS on the 332s and send them to Northern. TPWS was only introduced 20 or so years ago, so Pacers, Sprinters, Networkers, 319s etc must all have had TPWS retrofitted anyway so it isn't impossible to do. Could easily be done on the 332s.

IIRC the Tyne & Wear Metro fleet also lacks TPWS, and the Pelaw - Sunderland section of the Durham Coast Line was fitted with the Metro's own train protection system instead. Perhaps the same thing could be done for the 332s, installing GW ATP on some of the West Yorkshire routes if fitting the units with TPWS is impractical

I don't think the fitting of BR ATP systems would happen, they are pretty oBSO ketech now and ERTMS is what is going to be fitted (eventually) to UK railway lines. I think TPWS fitment is the only option to keep them in service, otherwise - scrap.

 

[DanNCL]

I don't think the fitting of BR ATP systems would happen, they are pretty oBSO ketech now and ERTMS is what is going to be fitted (eventually) to UK railway lines. I think TPWS fitment is the only option to keep them in service, otherwise - scrap.

I can't say I know too much about GW ATP! Just thought it might work based on the Indusi installation for the Metros on the Durham Coast.

For the reasons you said I think GW ATP being installed on any new routes is unlikely, hence the need to fit the 332s with TPWS if they're to find use elsewhere within the UK.

 

[hexagon789]

I can't say I know too much about GW ATP! Just thought it might work based on the Indusi installation for the Metros on the Durham Coast.

The GWML and Chiltern systems are different. The GWML uses intermittent cable loops.

 

[DanNCL]

The GWML and Chiltern systems are different. The GWML uses intermittent cable loops.

I didn't even know that the Chiltern Main Line had ATP! Thanks for the info

 

[hexagon789]

I didn't even know that the Chiltern Main Line had ATP! Thanks for the info

You're welcome.

The GWML to Bristol via Bath & Chippenham, Chiltern mainline and Amersham branch have ATP. Two different systems are in use. They are both quite obsolete and TPWS is pretty much as good as a train protection system. TPWS is cheaper, therefore I think would be the preferred fix for the 332s.

 

[43096]

You're welcome.

The GWML to Bristol via Bath & Chippenham, Chiltern mainline and Amersham branch have ATP. Two different systems are in use. They are both quite obsolete and TPWS is pretty much as good as a train protection system. TPWS is cheaper, therefore I think would be the preferred fix for the 332s.

The route to Bristol Parkway via Hullavington is also ATP fitted.

There will not be any extension to the BR ATP systems: ETCS will be used in future.

I do think people are running ahead of themselves with redeploying the 332s in the UK. What will they be used to replace? Who would buy them - all the ROSCOs have EMUs coming off lease: they will want these back on lease before they even contemplate the 332s.

 

[Rail Bus]

The Suvarnabhumi Airport line, which already operates a fleet of 360s, is standard gauge. I think all the other railways in Thailand are metre gauge though.

Correct and this line is being extended to Don Mueang Airport. They need additional stock compatible with the existing 360s they have

 

[humbersidejim]

I do think people are running ahead of themselves with redeploying the 332s in the UK. What will they be used to replace? Who would buy them - all the ROSCOs have EMUs coming off lease: they will want these back on lease before they even contemplate the 332s.

Quite, and further, the 'send them to Thailand' assertions are all well and good, but do we know if the State Railway has expressed an interest? Do they have any policy on imports of second hand stock?

One would think that when building a brand new line extension, the cost of new rolling stock would be a relatively small part of the project.

Based on has been suggested about the mechanical condition of the 332s, these suggestions amount to a solution in need of a problem.

 

[t_star2001uk]

The GWML and Chiltern systems are different. The GWML uses intermittent cable loops.

GWML ATP uses beacons. Chiltern ATP uses cable loops...

 

[59CosG95]

https://twitter.com/Clinnick1/status/981101358639173632

Worth mentioning that the 332s will be sold off. To where is the mystery.

 

[43096]

https://twitter.com/Clinnick1/status/981101358639173632

Worth mentioning that the 332s will be sold off. To where is the mystery.

Total non-gen.

It is blindingly obvious that Heathrow would sell off the 332s (and 360s for that matter) as they have no use for them. Sold off to a scrapyard is one option.

 

[Mikey C]

As the Anglia 360s will also soon become redundant, Thailand certainly will have plenty of choice if they for secondhand units!

 

[D365]

My word, the speculating on that twitter thread is worse than any we had here!

 

[Class 317722]

On another note are the class 332s 2020 compliant?

 

[paulravuslante]

On another note are the class 332s 2020 compliant?

Yes, they have been wheelchair accessible since day one of HEx. All platforms are level with the trains so wheelchair users do not even require the use of ramps to enter or exit the trains in the most part.

 

[edwin_m]

Quite, and further, the 'send them to Thailand' assertions are all well and good, but do we know if the State Railway has expressed an interest? Do they have any policy on imports of second hand stock?

One would think that when building a brand new line extension, the cost of new rolling stock would be a relatively small part of the project.

Based on has been suggested about the mechanical condition of the 332s, these suggestions amount to a solution in need of a problem.

I don't see any prospect of the 332s going to Thailand. What they operate are 360 clones, the two classes are very different and the mechanical parts aren't even from the same supplier. It is conceivable that the 360s could go there, given the lack of demand for a microfleet in the UK, similarities with their existing fleet and the possibility that the designs already developed for the parts that are different (aircon, train protection, others?) can be retrofitted.

 

[hexagon789]

I do think people are running ahead of themselves with redeploying the 332s in the UK. What will they be used to replace? Who would buy them - all the ROSCOs have EMUs coming off lease: they will want these back on lease before they even contemplate the 332s.

I think a lot of people see it as a waste of stock at a time when stock shouldn't be wasted if possible. Transfer to Northern seems the most sensible option for the class but in my opinion the most likely outcome is the scrapheap.

 

[hexagon789]

GWML ATP uses beacons. Chiltern ATP uses cable loops...

I'm going off memory and an early 1990s training video, so forgive me fir getting them the wrong way around.

 

[D365]

I think a lot of people see it as a waste of stock at a time when stock shouldn't be wasted if possible. Transfer to Northern seems the most sensible option for the class but in my opinion the most likely outcome is the scrapheap.

A lot of people may have opinions, but ultimately it's Heathrow's problem what happens, so I don't see why blame should be laid at the industry as a whole.

Or are we going to go through the whole Eurostar saga again?

 

[hexagon789]

A lot of people may have opinions, but ultimately it's Heathrow's problem what happens, so I don't see why blame should be laid at the industry as a whole.

Or are we going to go through the whole Eurostar saga again?

I think we are going to have the whole Eurostar saga again, especially as the 332s are arguably more "friendly" than the 373s to the domestic UK network (excepting current lack of TPWS).

 

[Mikey C]

I think we are going to have the whole Eurostar saga again, especially as the 332s are arguably more "friendly" than the 373s to the domestic UK network (excepting current lack of TPWS).

And it's not as if there's anything wrong with the 332s either, which seemed perfectly suited for the HEx route. An unscientific analysis perhaps, but I don't recall a single thread beforehand talking about the possibility of 387s replacing them.