Struggling with shifts

[BigDog]

I have worked on the railway for over 20 years now and for the last few years I have been struggling with metal health issues.

I have a terrible sleep pattern as it is but working quite regular night shifts Is wiping me out. I struggle to get 4-5 hours sleep when on the shift and I know it's not helping with my mental health issues.

I have only joined NWR around a year ago so I'm reluctant to speak out, I'm at a loss what to do. I love my job but I just can't handle the night shifts anymore.

 

[AverageJoe]

sorry to hear about the issues you are facing.

At this moment in time mental health is a hot topic within tocs and I’m sure you would get full support and help you need.

Obviously not knowing what role you work in or where you work I can’t give definite answers, but myself as a driver if I felt like that I would approach my DM or a union rep for advice on what my options are.

There is also always flyers hanging around the mess room referring to mental health and how to get help, all supported by the company.

Obviously you are saying the shifts are an issue, again I don’t know if it’s possible to change to a different shift pattern but ultimately it’s a conversation that needs to be had with management because if you keep pushing and your mental health deteriorates then it could lead down a path that causes you harm or worse.

Edit:

Also just to add is it possible to make adjustments in your daily life so that you are able to sleep?

Obviously I don’t know your circumstances but I actually find working lates or nights I get the most sleep.

If I’m doing a late and finishing around 3am or so I’ll just sleep through once I get home and not even bother to set an alarm as I know I’ll be awake well before I need to be thinking about work.

If I’m doing a night and getting home around 6am if I’m tired enough I’ll go straight to bed and sleep as much as possible, if I’m not tired I’ll stay up and get a few hours as soon as I feel tired, maybe get up again and later have a few more hours before work.

It’s certainly not the most sociable way of life but I find on awkward shift times is good to get sleep when your body is ready for it even if it means a few naps throughout the day.


The other side is that although we may love a job, if the shifts are too difficult to manage and the lack of sleep is causing health issues then it might be better to consider other career options.

 

[Horizon22]

I remember your thread back from May about the decision you were making. It does seem that working nights has not worked out for you, so I'm sorry to hear that.

Even if you've only been there a year, I would reach out about this because without some form of action, it's only going to get worse. Network Rail and/or your union should take such an issue seriously and will be able to give you advice.

When you say you have a "terrible sleep pattern" is that for any external reason, or you always have? There's a lot of factors that can impact your sleep but also sleep is one of - if not the most - important parts of your day. Having a poor sleep routine is definitely going to impact your mental health, although only you and a trained professional can get to the bottom of the overall problem.

What length are your night shifts? Sometimes you can't get the sleep on the shift and it's somewhat 'broken' sleep which arguably makes it worse. The main things is to concentrate on good sleep when you are off-shift (i.e during the day). Invest in things like blackout curtains, don't drink too much coffee in the last few hours of your shifts, limit distractions (as much as feasibly possible). Work out your best rhythm; some people go straight to sleep when they're home and wake up at something like 3pm, whereas others prefer to stay up for a bit then get up only short before they need to leave the house. Of course some of this is dependent on your home situation & any responsibilities you have.

 

[Bayum]

Without sounding condescending - this is why occy health exist. They will be able to support you in finding and maintaining a balance that works for you rather than against you as it sounds like it is doing.

 

[BigDog]

Just to clarify, I have worked nights on and off since I started in 2003, they are nothing new to me. The last job before I joined NWR I had to do regular Saturday nights but rarely did nights the rest of the week, in this new role I am doing 4-5 weeks of nights every 13 weeks and 9 Saturday nights every 13. I worked last night, got home at 5:30 am and I'm now awake at 8:30 am. This isn't a one off, this is my regular sleep when on nights, my body is exhausted but my mind won't play ball. Lol

 

[SWR_DRIVER]

Sorry to hear that you're dealing with this. Apologies for such a suggestion if you've already got them, but do you have complete blackout blinds in your bedroom? Mine have been an absolute life saver for me, particularly when I'm finishing at 2am in the height of summer and it's already very light outside by 5am.

 

[DMckduck]

I have worked on the railway for over 20 years now and for the last few years I have been struggling with metal health issues.

I have a terrible sleep pattern as it is but working quite regular night shifts Is wiping me out. I struggle to get 4-5 hours sleep when on the shift and I know it's not helping with my mental health issues.

I have only joined NWR around a year ago so I'm reluctant to speak out, I'm at a loss what to do. I love my job but I just can't handle the night shifts anymore.

Night shifts aren't for everybody and can be an absolute killer! You should definitely compare the monetary value of doing them vs your own mental health and physical wellbeing.

I hope you have a good dialogue with your local reps and management and can come to a solution that ultimately works for you whatever it may be!

 

[AverageJoe]

Just to clarify, I have worked nights on and off since I started in 2003, they are nothing new to me. The last job before I joined NWR I had to do regular Saturday nights but rarely did nights the rest of the week, in this new role I am doing 4-5 weeks of nights every 13 weeks and 9 Saturday nights every 13. I worked last night, got home at 5:30 am and I'm now awake at 8:30 am. This isn't a one off, this is my regular sleep when on nights, my body is exhausted but my mind won't play ball. Lol

So you got home at 05:30 and you are awake at 08:30. To me that is completely normal.

When it comes to shift work I feel one needs to forget what time it actually is and look at how you would approach it at a normal time of the day.

For example let’s look at your finish time yesterday and swap the 5:30am to 5:30pm.

If you finished work at 5:30pm would you be frustrated that you are still awake at 8:30pm? No, you’d think it was completely normal and not expect to be considering sleeping until say 10 or 11 pm.

When working nights the mindset needs to change, and then you stick with a rhythm until your circadian rhythm catches up (granted this can take a few days).

So in your situation yesterday I’d finish at 5:30 come home have some food, go to the gym, watch some tv, prep for the following day and then get in bed for between 10 and 12.

Then that’s when the need for earplugs, blackout blinds and so forth comes in.

When you do 4/5 weeks in a row it should be fairly simple to get in to a rhythm by using the correct techniques.

I’d say it’s actually more difficult for train staff who shift from lates / earlies / nights each week.

 

[BigDog]

So you got home at 05:30 and you are awake at 08:30. To me that is completely normal.

When it comes to shift work I feel one needs to forget what time it actually is and look at how you would approach it at a normal time of the day.

For example let’s look at your finish time yesterday and swap the 5:30am to 5:30pm.

If you finished work at 5:30pm would you be frustrated that you are still awake at 8:30pm? No, you’d think it was completely normal and not expect to be considering sleeping until say 10 or 11 pm.

When working nights the mindset needs to change, and then you stick with a rhythm until your circadian rhythm catches up (granted this can take a few days).

So in your situation yesterday I’d finish at 5:30 come home have some food, go to the gym, watch some tv, prep for the following day and then get in bed for between 10 and 12.

Then that’s when the need for earplugs, blackout blinds and so forth comes in.

When you do 4/5 weeks in a row it should be fairly simple to get in to a rhythm by using the correct techniques.

I’d say it’s actually more difficult for train staff who shift from lates / earlies / nights each week.

No, I got home at 5:30, went to sleep and now I'm wide awake at 8:30. It doesn't matter the time I fall asleep, I'm only having between 2-4 hours sleep when on nights.

 

[66701GBRF]

What time do you start work?

 

[BigDog]

Sorry to hear that you're dealing with this. Apologies for such a suggestion if you've already got them, but do you have complete blackout blinds in your bedroom? Mine have been an absolute life saver for me, particularly when I'm finishing at 2am in the height of summer and it's already very light outside by 5am.

I wear a blindfold and ear plugs. I have no problem falling asleep, it's just I wake after 2-4 hours and even though I'm shattered my brain just won't sleep off. It wouldn't be so bad if I could get a few hours in the afternoon but once I'm up I'm up. What is strange is I used to sleep better on nights when I was younger.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Oct 2024 ==

What time do you start work?

When on nights, usually around 10.

 

[12C]

I wear a blindfold and ear plugs. I have no problem falling asleep, it's just I wake after 2-4 hours and even though I'm shattered my brain just won't sleep off. It wouldn't be so bad if I could get a few hours in the afternoon but once I'm up I'm up. What is strange is I used to sleep better on nights when I was younger.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Oct 2024 ==


When on nights, usually around 10.

Do you drink much coffee on nights? I was having very similar trouble sleeping, then realised I was probably having at least 6 mugs of coffee in a night shift. I switched to water and green tea and am now sleeping much better.

 

[AverageJoe]

No, I got home at 5:30, went to sleep and now I'm wide awake at 8:30. It doesn't matter the time I fall asleep, I'm only having between 2-4 hours sleep when on nights.

I said in my first post that I’ve had days like that. So I’ll get a couple of hours sleep, get up do a few jobs then later get more.

You’re body doesn’t know what time it is, it’s used a circadian rhythm which can be changed by adopting a regular pattern.

If you truly follow the suggestions given so far in this thread you will be able to do it.

Sleeping in the day does require more effort to keep the noise down, light out and temp correct but it can be done.

The worst part is getting to sleep, once you fall asleep and you are genuinely tired then then it’s all about blocking out the outside world from waking you.

If you don’t feel this works for you then it’s a chat with the manager or a new job.

It’s your choice.

 

[BigDog]

Do you drink much coffee on nights? I was having very similar trouble sleeping, then realised I was probably having at least 6 mugs of coffee in a night shift. I switched to water and green tea and am now sleeping much better.

No mate, I rarely have caffeine these days tbh. I have had this issue for a number of issues now. The crazy thing is, if I slept well I'd love the night shift. Less traffic on the road, easier track access, etc. I know there's something off when work colleagues are sleeping till 12-2 pm and I'm up at 8-10 am.

I am not one to complain to my line manager which I suppose is the wrong attitude, I have only recently joined and it won't look good, I'll just keep on plodding on until I feel I'm secure enough in the job to say something.

 

[Horizon22]

I am not one to complain to my line manager which I suppose is the wrong attitude, I have only recently joined and it won't look good, I'll just keep on plodding on until I feel I'm secure enough in the job to say something.

I strongly suggest not doing this. Fatigue is no joke and whether consciously or not, your work will eventually suffer, not to mention the impact it is having on your mental health. An ongoing lack of sleep will have some significant consequences on your life. Being awake for several hours after your nights can be normal for 1 or 2 - particularly at the start of a run - but it shouldn’t be all of them

There are hundreds of thousands of people who do night shifts and whilst they are not for everyone, there are coping mechanisms that you can put in place, some of which have been suggested here and are readily available online. Ultimately you’ve got to try something that works for you. And if it’s not getting better - and you say you’ve done nights before - there are probably external issues at play here. Again burying your head in the sand about it whilst it might appear easier, in the longer term will not be helpful.

 

[AverageJoe]

No mate, I rarely have caffeine these days tbh. I have had this issue for a number of issues now. The crazy thing is, if I slept well I'd love the night shift. Less traffic on the road, easier track access, etc. I know there's something off when work colleagues are sleeping till 12-2 pm and I'm up at 8-10 am.

I am not one to complain to my line manager which I suppose is the wrong attitude, I have only recently joined and it won't look good, I'll just keep on plodding on until I feel I'm secure enough in the job to say something.

I’m a bit confused to the original post BigDog.

It seemed like a bit of a cry for help because you can’t sleep and don’t know what to do because you are concerned for your mental health.

But when there is decent suggestions made by members who genuinely want to help and have showed concern for you, you have knocked them back a bit and now decided to carry on and do nothing about it?

 

[66701GBRF]

Being awake for several hours after your nights can be normal for 1 or 2 - particularly at the start of a run - but it shouldn’t be all of them

I don't think getting to sleep after a shift is the issue, it's the length they are able to sleep.

 

[Horizon22]

I don't think getting to sleep after a shift is the issue, it's the length they are able to sleep.

I meant both - getting to sleep and having broken sleep.

The OP’s mind is evidently overstimulated by something and as we can only speculate we may never fully be able to advise, nor are we mental health professionals. This is why all of the suggestions are there but also many are stating this requires discussion with a line manager or a referral to occupational health.

 

[Cheshire Rover]

Surely you have a duty of care to everyone else on the railway to be 100% fit for work? If you are not getting enough rest and your mental health is suffering, you really need to consider are these shifts are right for you. It may be that this job, even though you enjoy it, is not right for you. Whilst I am not employed in the rail industry, I have had safety critical jobs in the past and needed to be 100% on the ball at all times to do them.
If you are not able to talk this through with your line manager, perhaps you could seek advice from your Union?

 

[BigDog]

I’m a bit confused to the original post BigDog.

It seemed like a bit of a cry for help because you can’t sleep and don’t know what to do because you are concerned for your mental health.

But when there is decent suggestions made by members who genuinely want to help and have showed concern for you, you have knocked them back a bit and now decided to carry on and do nothing about it?

I'm venting, and I appreciate the help and I know it's something I need to sort out sooner or later. It's not so easy to speak out, I have always been known as a hard worker, not one to complain, I've always been of the mindset don't show any weakness, stupid I know, but that's what 20+ years of grafting on the track does to a man.

 

[Horizon22]

It's not so easy to speak out, I have always been known as a hard worker, not one to complain, I've always been of the mindset don't show any weakness, stupid I know, but that's what 20+ years of grafting on the track does to a man.

This is exactly the kind of mindset which has to change not just on the railway but for men. Seriously, please reach out for someone and don’t hope that this just goes away by itself.

 

[AverageJoe]

I'm venting, and I appreciate the help and I know it's something I need to sort out sooner or later. It's not so easy to speak out, I have always been known as a hard worker, not one to complain, I've always been of the mindset don't show any weakness, stupid I know, but that's what 20+ years of grafting on the track does to a man.

Are you working in a safety critical role BigDog? If so it isn’t just about you, it’s about the others it could impact.

HIDDEN rules are in place because fatigue costs lives. I’m sure you wouldn’t want to be responsible for someone getting hurt.

The first rule of a safety critical role is present yourself fit for work.

 

[Chrysalis]

I have worked on the railway for over 20 years now and for the last few years I have been struggling with metal health issues.

I have a terrible sleep pattern as it is but working quite regular night shifts Is wiping me out. I struggle to get 4-5 hours sleep when on the shift and I know it's not helping with my mental health issues.

I have only joined NWR around a year ago so I'm reluctant to speak out, I'm at a loss what to do. I love my job but I just can't handle the night shifts anymore.

I agree with the others that you should probably ask for help, either from your GP or occupational health.

You mention that you can fall asleep OK, but then you wake up and can't go back to sleep. Have you tried melatonin? There are two types, a regular one (if you can't fall asleep) and a slow release version (if you can fall asleep and then wake up). Maybe something to consider.

 

[AverageJoe]

I agree with the others that you should probably ask for help, either from your GP or occupational health.

You mention that you can fall asleep OK, but then you wake up and can't go back to sleep. Have you tried melatonin? There are two types, a regular one (if you can't fall asleep) and a slow release version (if you can fall asleep and then wake up). Maybe something to consider.

Not sure if you work on the railway but need to be very careful about what medication to recommend and it should always be run by your toc doctor.

Anything the causes drowsiness is a big no no for some if not all safety critical roles.

 

[66701GBRF]

If you have a partner and they are ok with it, try sleeping with a fan on with it directed at your head/face. Might sound silly but the constant white noise and cooler air helps me sleep a lot better.

 

[Chrysalis]

Not sure if you work on the railway but need to be very careful about what medication to recommend and it should always be run by your toc doctor.

Anything the causes drowsiness is a big no no for some if not all safety critical roles.

Yes, obviously run it past occupational health first. They also need to be aware of any health issues you're having so that's another reason why the thread starter should have a chat with them.

 

[BigDog]

Are you working in a safety critical role BigDog? If so it isn’t just about you, it’s about the others it could impact.

HIDDEN rules are in place because fatigue costs lives. I’m sure you wouldn’t want to be responsible for someone getting hurt.

The first rule of a safety critical role is present yourself fit for work.

It doesn't affect my work, I can still cope fine, I have never had any lapses, nobody would ever know, but I know it's a problem.

 

[AverageJoe]

It doesn't affect my work, I can still cope fine, I have never had any lapses, nobody would ever know, but I know it's a problem.

Are you in a safety critical role?

 

[BigDog]

Are you in a safety critical role?

Yes, most of the time.

 

[AverageJoe]

Yes, most of the time.

Therefore you are fooling yourself and putting others at risk.

Not worth it at all.

Not only can this cause serious harm but it could result in prison time.

A quick google explains the dangers of fatigue and no matter how well you think you are coping with it, you aren’t! The human brain simply cannot function properly with continuous lack of sleep.

Do the right thing and take care of yourself and others and speak to management and see what ideas they come up with.

I’m not gonna lie I also get the feeling you aren’t quite implementing the best techniques to get sleep, it comes across a little like if the idea doesn’t work with you then you will dismiss it.