Stranded in London overnight

[uefacup81]

I'm going to an event in London tonight, and am booked on the 2330 LST-NRW. If it's not running, I shall be stranded in London. If that's the case, what obligations will Greater Anglia have towards me?

 

[John @ home]

I'm going to an event in London tonight, and am booked on the 2330 LST-NRW. If it's not running, I shall be stranded in London. If that's the case, what obligations will Greater Anglia have towards me?

This is set out in Condition 43 of the National Rail Conditions of Carriage.

43. Help from Train Companies if you are stranded

If disruption caused by circumstances within the control of a Train Company or a Rail Service Company leaves you stranded before you have reached your destination printed on or stored on your ticket, and the Train Company whose trains you are entitled to use is unable to get you to that destination by other means, any Train Company which is in a position to help will, if it reasonably can, either arrange to get you to that destination, or provide overnight accommodation for you.

 

[34D]

However, as the TOC has advised people not to travel (due to the weather), I question whether that obligation remains.

 

[All Line Rover]

Last night (10pm) at St Pancras, EMT made no mention of alternative arrangements for customers. All that was said (repeatedly) was that trains were not running and customers should travel the following day.

The provision in the NRCoC applies during circumstances within the control of the train company, which is certainly not the case during a severe storm which causes trees to fall on the tracks.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

Customer Relations Dept guidelines state the following:

Within the control of the industry (Compensation etc IS payable)

Signal Failure
Track Problems
Following another service (as long as the original cause of delay is not on the outside industry control list)
Connection not held
Engineering works (as long as not pre-planned and advertised)
Overrunning engineering
Overhead line problems (as long as not weather related)
Power failure (as long as not due to vandalism)
Fail to Call

Not within the control of the industry (Compensation etc NOT payable)

Cable Theft
Vandalism
Weather
Flooding
Trespass
Fatality
Animals on the line
Bridge Strike
Fire
Scene of Crime
Security alert


So it would seem that the TOC in this case might not have any liability to you, especially as the advice not to travel has been widely reported for a day or so.

 

[alastair]

I'm going to an event in London tonight, and am booked on the 2330 LST-NRW. If it's not running, I shall be stranded in London. If that's the case, what obligations will Greater Anglia have towards me?

Given that their website very clearly advises you not to travel,I don't see how they would have any obligation to you.

 

[sheff1]

Given that their website very clearly advises you not to travel ....

Not now it doesn't and their journey planner suggests the train is running.

 

[Deerfold]

If you need somewhere cheap in a hurry I'd suggest:

http://hostelworld.com

or

http://hostelbookers.co.uk

Read the reviews to make sure it's not cheap and nasty...and avoid Hostel 639.

 

[swt_passenger]

Customer Relations Dept guidelines state the following:

Within the control of the industry (Compensation etc IS payable)

Signal Failure
Track Problems
Following another service (as long as the original cause of delay is not on the outside industry control list)
Connection not held
Engineering works (as long as not pre-planned and advertised)
Overrunning engineering
Overhead line problems (as long as not weather related)
Power failure (as long as not due to vandalism)
Fail to Call

Not within the control of the industry (Compensation etc NOT payable)

Cable Theft
Vandalism
Weather
Flooding
Trespass
Fatality
Animals on the line
Bridge Strike
Fire
Scene of Crime
Security alert


So it would seem that the TOC in this case might not have any liability to you, especially as the advice not to travel has been widely reported for a day or so.

Greater Anglia is on the 'delay repay' scheme, and that no longer differentiates between problems, i.e. whether they are in control of the industry or not.

I do agree that 'advice not to travel' must have a bearing on compensation, but all those things you rule out in the second part of your post do now result in compensation on 'delay repay' TOCs.

 

[maniacmartin]

Greater Anglia is on the 'delay repay' scheme, and that no longer differentiates between problems, i.e. whether they are in control of the industry or no

They do not differentiate between problems when awarding Delay Repay. I don't think this changes their obligations to stranded passengers under NRCoC section 43 though, which clearly states caused by circumstances within the control of a Train Company or a Rail Service Company

 

[Solent&Wessex]

Greater Anglia is on the 'delay repay' scheme, and that no longer differentiates between problems, i.e. whether they are in control of the industry or not.

I do agree that 'advice not to travel' must have a bearing on compensation, but all those things you rule out in the second part of your post do now result in compensation on 'delay repay' TOCs.

With thanks. I am with a non delay repay TOC and this is the information given to us.

 

[ryan125hst]

Customer Relations Dept guidelines state the following:

Within the control of the industry (Compensation etc IS payable)

Signal Failure
Track Problems
Following another service (as long as the original cause of delay is not on the outside industry control list)
Connection not held
Engineering works (as long as not pre-planned and advertised)
Overrunning engineering
Overhead line problems (as long as not weather related)
Power failure (as long as not due to vandalism)
Fail to Call

Not within the control of the industry (Compensation etc NOT payable)

Cable Theft
Vandalism
Weather
Flooding
Trespass
Fatality
Animals on the line
Bridge Strike
Fire
Scene of Crime
Security alert


So it would seem that the TOC in this case might not have any liability to you, especially as the advice not to travel has been widely reported for a day or so.

So are you saying that if I had planned to catch the last service of the night, and it was cancelled because a signalling cable had been stolen, or someone had fallen in front of a train, they would have no responsibility to get me home or put me up in a hotel?

 

[PermitToTravel]

So are you saying that if I had planned to catch the last service of the night, and it was cancelled because a signalling cable had been stolen, or someone had fallen in front of a train, they would have no responsibility to get me home or put me up in a hotel?

That is correct (with the exception of situations where they have a duty of care to you, eg if you are a vulnerable person, but I am not sure of the technicalities of this). However, it is unlikely that they would leave you stranded, and most if not all TOCs in the situations you named would run a rail replacement bus service or hire taxis to take everybody home. They do not have to, however, and may choose not to when very large number of passengers who were advised not to travel become stranded due to no fault of the TOC (I am not suggesting that this is what happened this time)

 

[reb0118]

So are you saying that if I had planned to catch the last service of the night, and it was cancelled because a signalling cable had been stolen, or someone had fallen in front of a train, they would have no responsibility to get me home or put me up in a hotel?

That is correct, yes. You would, however, be able to claim against the thief (if caught). I'm not sure if you would have a claim re. someone falling in front of a train unless it was a deliberate act such as suicide where you could claim against any residual estate (I leave you to think about the moralities of such an action but have been informed that it has been known to happen esp. in Japan)

If someone fell in front of a train due to an accident, and it was subsequently found that the railway was at fault (e.g. poor maintenance), then you may have claim against the railway if you were delayed or inconvenienced.

Most folk just chalk these things up to - "that's life!"

 

[Tetchytyke]

So are you saying that if I had planned to catch the last service of the night, and it was cancelled because a signalling cable had been stolen, or someone had fallen in front of a train, they would have no responsibility to get me home or put me up in a hotel?

Indeed that is right.

The TOC, of course, will be getting lots of lovely juicy compensation from Network Rail for failing to provide the path for the train, even in cases where there's been a fatality or cable theft.

The TOC would just rather keep it for its greedy fat cat directors than pass it on the to the poor buggers who actually paid for the train service.

 

[jon0844]

Wow, does the money from NR go directly to the directors?

Sounds like one of the newspapers should be doing a big story on that!

 

[Tetchytyke]

Wow, does the money from NR go directly to the directors?

You should ask Ann Gloag

 

[reb0118]

You should ask Ann Gloag

No thanks. She looks scary!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

You should ask Ann Gloag

No thanks. She looks scary!