Storm Goretti disruption - 8/9 January 2026

[liamf656]

Not sure if this has been mentioned:

EMR are suspending the majority of services this evening between 2000 and 1000 tomorrow, including services on the Nottingham - Worksop, Skegness & Sheffield (including Northern services), Derby - Crewe/ Matlock lines.

I can't remember a time when services have been cut back so much?

Services being suspended for the morning tomorrow is crazy though- the storm better be good! (I fully appreciate that they are going off what they know, and the reaction is based off the worst case!)


In addition the Hope Valley line (Sheffield to Manchester) is now closed ALL DAY tomorrow.
Tickets are valid all the way through to Monday on all routes!!

Already mentioned in post #178

Weather related all-day closures have happened many times. Winter 2009/10 most likely saw the worst snow-related shut down but others can confirm or deny this. In recent times we had Storm Eunice (80mph winds) in 2022 which caused a complete shutdown of train services across the East Midlands

 

[Bletchleyite]

WMT appear to be randomly cancelling Birmingham-Euston semifasts tomorrow. Not sure what the excuse for that is, as that area is largely not affected.

 

[Dr Hoo]

And in the Hope Valley this afternoon the temperature has swiftly dropped and it’s really chilly already.

I had been out, stocking up on food and getting firewood into the house. On the local back roads in the village there are ‘do it yourself’ grit bins at frequent intervals. Unfortunately they are all empty, having been finally cleaned out when we had snow on Monday. So, problems ahead for motorists on 1:5 and 1:4 hills.

We are well used to road closures. Storm Babet in autumn 2023 did a huge amount of damage to bridges and river banks that took over 18 months to claw back with loads of closures, diversions and temporary traffic lights. Hulleys Buses folded. There aren’t just problems on the trains.

 

[MikeWh]

Storm Babet in autumn 2024 did a huge amount of damage to bridges and river banks that took over 18 months to claw back

18 months after autumn 2024 hasn't arrived yet!

 

[nilvaj395]

So do you think bridges should remain open to high sided vehicles in windy weather? I have seen enough trucks blown over in yellow weather warnings on motorways that werent bridges.

Unfortunately/fortunately the TOCs have a duty of care to passengers and to their staff.

its very much a case of damned if you do, damned if you dont

How is this similar? Wind speeds over a bridge is entirely different to build and maintain railway infrastructure to be resilient to weather, sure bridges also exist in railways and can become a problem / impassable due to wind speeds (and you cannot change that sometimes) but that is not the point, the point is about the snow and other normal winter weather.

RAIB quite literally said themselves the incident was entirely preventable if corners were not cut with its installation by the contractor. Network Rail could have ensured and done its job with the infrastructure in prediction that poor weather would return (as does every year) instead of sulking and shutting everything. With a bridge you're kind of limited to the elements regardless of what design you choose to build, with railway infrastructure (aside from similar scenarios of wind limits over stuff like bridges etc) like drainage systems and other essentials, you can easily build and maintain it in a way that makes a world of difference to handling the normal wintertime weather that should be expected in this country. It does however unfortunately come down to cost and effort. It's cheaper to guide the sinking ship to the bottom slowly than re-float it.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

When both old and new were in service didn't they send old units out empty as "icebreakers", just accepting that they'd need to repair them later and that this would allow newer units to run without risk of damage. Unfortunately they don't have spare slammers hanging around the depot any more.

Said before - I used to arrange 6 car 313 units as ice breakers on the Watford DC several winters overnight , as well as nothing less than an 8 car 321 on the main line to a planned emergency timetable of 4 tph. Ditto empty stock on the North London and the tough old 117's on the Gospel Oak ran , with a fitter to hand (usually on board one)

Train doors de-iced , everything left under cover at Euston etc as far as possible. Spare train crew at key depots. Plus on call managers. Punctuality was not great , but all routes served.

Staff walking routes gritted - also (very important) tea and where possible - bacon sandwiches for the workers.

I didn't think the DC Line electrification could cope with 6 car 313s? (that was the excuse for all the peak hour 6 car 501 formations becoming 3 car when they were withdrawn....)

Special permission granted.

Also , 321's and frozen doors mentioned - a simple mod of drilling some holes in the body from inside allowed some saloon heat to reduce freezing ........(it was possibel to get cubes of ice in there till it was done)

 

[Bletchleyite]

So do you think bridges should remain open to high sided vehicles in windy weather? I have seen enough trucks blown over in yellow weather warnings on motorways that werent bridges.

Whether they are or not should be based on a combination of forecast and actual wind speeds, as only that has an effect, not whether it's raining a bit much.

 

[TheSmiths82]

The Buxton line closure will have a big impact where I work. We were discussing it this afternoon and somebody asked me why they closed the lines in advanced before we can even be certain how bad the weather will be at a specific location. I was explaining some of the reasons why they do it, but that got me thinking do train drivers still get paid if the train they are supposed to run doesn't? Are they expected to work in the office and do some work there or do they effectively get a paid day off?

 

[Freemo]

We are now just 3.5 hours ahead of the start of the Amber "Severe Weather Warning" covering the East Midlands. When was that warning last updated? Yesterday at 11.55 - 32 hours ahead of its start. We are invited to believe that the area at risk, the timing, and the severity are all unchanged despite the uncertainty period having reduced by a factor of ten.

You've written a lot of words based on this, when anyone can go on their website and see for themselves that it was last updated less than an hour ago https://weather.metoffice.gov.uk/wa...cqzwtdw7#1ae0aefe-a04c-4569-83a8-10f40cb1c0dd

 

[tram21]

The Buxton line closure will have a big impact where I work. We were discussing it this afternoon and somebody asked me why they closed the lines in advanced before we can even be certain how bad the weather will be at a specific location. I was explaining some of the reasons why they do it, but that got me thinking do train drivers still get paid if the train they are supposed to run doesn't? Are they expected to work in the office and do some work there or do they effectively get a paid day off?

They'll definitely get paid, and will be needed at work unless told otherwise

 

[dosxuk]

the point is about the snow and other normal winter weather.

The predicted 30-40 cm of snow in the Hope Valley is not "normal winter weather" where life carries on as normal. It's the weather you might get once every couple of years that shuts things down for a couple of days, meaning you bunk down and plan to stay at home.

 

[Dr Hoo]

18 months after autumn 2024 hasn't arrived yet!

Thank you. Edited to correct to 2023. Time flies!

 

[nilvaj395]

The predicted 30-40 cm of snow in the Hope Valley is not "normal winter weather" where life carries on as normal. It's the weather you might get once every couple of years that shuts things down for a couple of days, meaning you bunk down and plan to stay at home.

I can say life will very much be expected to be carried on as normal for most people, jobs will still be expecting people and I think people these days cannot afford to take the day without pay if they can try to get to work by driving. Plus too much focus is being placed on the snow predicted in the hills of the Hope Valley and not that other lines e.g Buxton or Hadfield/Glossop which lie almost entirely outside of the orange area have also been shut.

If the country had to completely shut everytime there was a yellow or amber warning then no one would ever get anywhere because no one would risk going outside to get to their job of gritting the roads, the same applies to the railway. You have to put it in the slightest amount of effort to get things moving. Severing a major commuter run from Glossop/Hadfield or Buxton to Manchester with no or poor alternatives (other than driving of course) is not good enough.

 

[yoyothehobo]

Whether they are or not should be based on a combination of forecast and actual wind speeds, as only that has an effect, not whether it's raining a bit much.

But arent routes closing because of predicted weather. The same you have called upon above.

Do i think that sometimes the railway throws in the towel to easily. Yes, especially in yellow weather warnings, however we are about to get some exceptional winter weather by 21st century standards, and i will take the disruption if it prevents a stranding, especially with some of the level of snowfall forecast.

How is this similar? Wind speeds over a bridge is entirely different to build and maintain railway infrastructure to be resilient to weather, sure bridges also exist in railways and can become a problem / impassable due to wind speeds (and you cannot change that sometimes) but that is not the point, the point is about the snow and other normal winter weather.

RAIB quite literally said themselves the incident was entirely preventable if corners were not cut with its installation by the contractor. Network Rail could have ensured and done its job with the infrastructure in prediction that poor weather would return (as does every year) instead of sulking and shutting everything. With a bridge you're kind of limited to the elements regardless of what design you choose to build, with railway infrastructure (aside from similar scenarios of wind limits over stuff like bridges etc) like drainage systems and other essentials, you can easily build and maintain it in a way that makes a world of difference to handling the normal wintertime weather that should be expected in this country. It does however unfortunately come down to cost and effort. It's cheaper to guide the sinking ship to the bottom slowly than re-float it.

This storm forecast however isnt normal british winter weather, especially with the wind speeds predicted in certain areas.

With regards to infrastructure such as drainage being under designed, how much will you pay for every drainage and earthwork feature on the network to be upgraded to take in exceptional events and ensure you have suitable outflow for the water you are capturing/diverting.

So much of the railway decisions are based around detailed weather forecasting which is fine until you get an uncertainly pathed unusually strong winter storm hitting an uncertain location of cold air.

 

[dosxuk]

If the country had to completely shut everytime there was a yellow or amber warning then no one would ever get anywhere because no one would risk going outside to get to their job of gritting the roads, the same applies to the railway.

Nobody is talking about shutting down the entire country, or even the entire amber covered area. Only the routes which are known to be at high risk of large and rapid snowfall were in the initial closure announcements.

If anywhere the amount of snow comes to pass on those routes, they will be closed because, like the roads in the same areas, they will be impassable.

 

[nilvaj395]

With regards to infrastructure such as drainage being under designed, how much will you pay for every drainage and earthwork feature on the network to be upgraded to take in exceptional events and ensure you have suitable outflow for the water you are capturing/diverting.

I feel like this should be fairly obvious, that should be the priority for Network Rail with all of the talk on climate change. If you really want the railways to be taken seriously as a reliable option for people to trust with getting to and from places then any measure to be more resilient should be welcomed.

Nobody is talking about shutting down the entire country, or even the entire amber covered area. Only the routes which are known to be at high risk of large and rapid snowfall were in the initial closure announcements.

If anywhere the amount of snow comes to pass on those routes, they will be closed because, like the roads in the same areas, they will be impassable.

It was an exaggeration maybe, but particularly the Buxton (aside from Buxton itself in the amber) and Hadfield/Glossop lines lie majority within the yellow area. Atleast TfGM has come to some sense with Northern and allowed ticket acceptance on the 237 and 341, so theoretically buses replacing trains between Guide Bridge and Hadfield/Glossop is an option, but one the railway is uninterested in taking. It's cheaper for the railways to give up evidently, as we all saw last time when Northern cut all routes towards Lancaster and Morecambe with no real valid reason and did not provide any form of replacement travel because the best interests of rail passengers are always secondary.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

WMT appear to be randomly cancelling Birmingham-Euston semifasts tomorrow. Not sure what the excuse for that is, as that area is largely not affected.

Isn't Birmingham in an amber area? May have staffing issues if staff come from South Birmingham/Worcestershire

 

[Bletchleyite]

Isn't Birmingham in an amber area? May have staffing issues if staff come from South Birmingham/Worcestershire

Ah, looks like the amber area has shifted a bit since I last looked. I wonder if the ones that are running are the ones that have Bletchley crews?

 

[Nottingham59]

Rainviewer is showing heavy rain over London and snow now falling in a triangular area between Milton Keynes, Leeds and South Wales.

Weather Radar Map | RainViewer

Stay ahead with our global live weather radar. Track rain, sleet, or snow in real time, updated every 10 minutes. Accurate forecasts for any location worldwide.

www.rainviewer.com

EDIT:
And I see the Met Office radar map has a layer that distinguishes between rain and snow with quite fine detail

UK rainfall radar map - Met Office

Our rainfall radar map shows precipitation and rainfall rates across the UK. Includes forecasts up to 5 days and observations from the last 48 hours.

weather.metoffice.gov.uk

 

[Bletchleyite]

Rainviewer is showing heavy rain over London and snow now falling in a triangular area between Milton Keynes, Leeds and South Wales.

Weather Radar Map | RainViewer

Stay ahead with our global live weather radar. Track rain, sleet, or snow in real time, updated every 10 minutes. Accurate forecasts for any location worldwide.

www.rainviewer.com

It's throwing it down with rain and about 4 degrees here. No snow and I doubt there will be any for at least the next few hours, and given how wet it is I doubt it will stick if there is.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

The predicted 30-40 cm of snow in the Hope Valley is not "normal winter weather" where life carries on as normal. It's the weather you might get once every couple of years that shuts things down for a couple of days, meaning you bunk down and plan to stay at home.

For anyone who grew up in the 1970s, that's absolutely normal winter weather!

If I lived in the Hope Valley, no way would I be bunking down at home, I'd be up Lose Hill first thing tomorrow with my sledge. *





* That's if I were still a child obviously. A 57 year old man sledging down Lose Hill would be undignified.

 

[Falcon1200]

It is so easy to criticise the decisions made when having no responsibility for the outcome of those decisions, or having to face the potential consequences, legal and other.

 

[Dr Hoo]

Well, it began snowing in my bit of the Hope Valley just after 1800.

Forecasters; what do they know?

Spoiler alert! Don't look at Post #1.

 

[AndrewE]

For anyone who grew up in the 1970s, that's absolutely normal winter weather!
If I lived in the Hope Valley, no way would I be bunking down at home, I'd be up Lose Hill first thing tomorrow with my sledge.*

* That's if I were still a child obviously. A 57 year old man sledging down Lose Hill would be undignified.

Nonsense! Why should kids have all the fun? Apart from being a bit more cautious (in my mid-70s) to try to avoid broken bones if I had a slope within reach I would be out too.

If the grandkids were here more often in the winter we would get a new sledge and research the locations within easy/safe reach and get out there!

 

[Requeststop]

18:30 St Ives Cornwall. It's blowing an absolute storm here. We're definitely under a RED warning. I've been following 1C80 Paddington to Penzance which was held up at Saltash apparently due to an ill passenger. It departed Saltash +88 late. It's made it to Truro now +105 late and seems to be stuck there. The way the wind is blowing down here I cannot see it making any further progress.

 

[Twingo37175]

18:30 St Ives Cornwall. It's blowing an absolute storm here. We're definitely under a RED warning. I've been following 1C80 Paddington to Penzance which was held up at Saltash apparently due to an ill passenger. It departed Saltash +88 late. It's made it to Truro now +105 late and seems to be stuck there. The way the wind is blowing down here I cannot see it making any further progress.

Looks to no be moving (following a Plymouth to Penzance), but I would guess both are running with speed restrictions. Similar to a couple of services heading the other way as well.

 

[Chrius56000]

. . .Snow coming down heavily in Brownhills where I live – you can see it coming down thick and fast if you look at the streetlights!

. . .(Trains are disrupted here and have been since 18/1/1965!)

. . .Trains from Walsall but how long they'll run for is anybody's guess!

 

[D1511]

It is so easy to criticise the decisions made when having no responsibility for the outcome of those decisions, or having to face the potential consequences, legal and other.

Possibly not quite as easy as cancelling everything though, is it?

Two words for the railway to learn......

CLIMATE RESILIENCE

 

[trainophile]

I bet the railways are rubbing their hands at the extra money from people (e.g. me) who hastily bought full price tickets to return home today, rather than chancing it with our cheap Advances for tomorrow. Glad I did it though, I'd only have worried all day and probably ended up stranded in North Wales.

 

[Sparks807Evo]

Isn't Birmingham in an amber area? May have staffing issues if staff come from South Birmingham/Worcestershire

Correct and snow now falling - think WMR have taken a fairly sensible approach given timing of the weather with the approach to this evening’s services. Hereford was the only real surprise early cancellation.