Except the 48 hour thing doesn't apply on Northern. So no, it doesn't tie in at all.
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Storm Eowyn Disruption - 24/1/25
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There are also multiple power failures causing loss of signalling on the Cumbrian Coast line today. Bootle/Sellafield/Parton, which would have caused major disruption and multiple trains trapped if there had been any.
Luckily, only the route prover is affected.
Multiple platforms lost at Preston yesterday meant the service was thinned out as per the agreed Network Rail contingency with platforms 1, 2 and 3c lost.
Luckily, only the route prover is affected.
Multiple platforms lost at Preston yesterday meant the service was thinned out as per the agreed Network Rail contingency with platforms 1, 2 and 3c lost.
I think a key problem is that Preston - Carlisle is not blocked by infrastructure faults but neither Northern nor Avanti West Coast want to operate even as far as Lancaster.
Usually Preston <> Lancaster is a high-speed, high-frequency, high-capacity link, with frequent connections at Preston and lots of through trains, and attracts some high numbers as a result. It's a fools game to suggest only the TPE services can cope.
Course, it'd have been alright with their old rolling stock as they used to be able to deploy a pair of 350s fairly easily. No such options now.
Usually Preston <> Lancaster is a high-speed, high-frequency, high-capacity link, with frequent connections at Preston and lots of through trains, and attracts some high numbers as a result. It's a fools game to suggest only the TPE services can cope.
Course, it'd have been alright with their old rolling stock as they used to be able to deploy a pair of 350s fairly easily. No such options now.
weastebusdepot
Member
Possibly because Glasgow/Edinburgh - Preston is run by Scotland based crew who are still stuck north of the divide, while Preston - the South has a different crew who don't sign Carlisle - Preston?
Lots of Rangers fans from Thursday night's Old Trafford game still trying to get out of Manchester this morning. I was initially advising them to catch the first available service to Carlisle and see what options were available when they got there, but then it turns out there aren't very many. Does the X95 bus still exist?
D1537
Established Member
Since the image has been shared far and wide now, I presume it is this one.
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Tetchytyke
Veteran Member
Of course there won’t be any more detail than that, obfuscation is so deeply ingrained in their culture that they don’t ever think to do anything else. If they can’t run north of Barrow due to a signal failure then say so. If they can’t run south of Barrow because of Preston’s roof then say so.
Why obfuscate? It’s easy to latch on to an excuse to hide the fact you’d be struggling to run your service for other reasons. That’s why Northern are so fond of “short notice change to the timetable” as a reason for cancelling trains. I simply don’t trust Northern to be straight on anything anymore. They’ve long since shredded any goodwill they might have had.
The line is open at least as far as Oxenholme. The stock isn’t out of place- or at least a of it isn’t. So why not run?
driver9000
Established Member
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Avanti crew based at Preston sign and work to Scotland alongside the Edinburgh/Glasgow crews. To the south Preston work alongside Euston, Piccadilly and Wolves crews (depending on which section they're working on).
Avanti abandoning north of Preston is common in times of disruption although it's far from ideal. For instance there are capacity issues at Carlisle for holding trains between trips especially as it appears platform 1 is closed today along with the Drivers having a clause in their conditions that prevents double tripping over routes. This would make crewing a shuttle service a bit more difficult than a TPE service where Drivers can and do work double trips. Avanti are also hampered by having to provide the rostered crews based at Preston for services to the south while trying to roster enough crews with who is left to cover Preston to Carlisle without the availability of Scottish crews.
mm333
Member
1E07 0830 Edinburgh to Peterborough is approaching Chathill currently 376 late. https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C71411/2025-01-25/detailed
It's being terminated at Newcastle according to the LNER Journey Check site.
It's being terminated at Newcastle according to the LNER Journey Check site.
D1537
Established Member
Unsurprising, probably driver out of hours. There are four more southbound Azumas literally right behind it.
Also presumably bi-di working as 1S01 still there.
D1537
Established Member
Yes, down trains are switching to the up at Little Mill and back across at Chathill. Five trains (1E07/16/17/19/20) waiting for 1S15 to go north is why they're all bunched together, they should all get through before 1S17 gets there. There will be a queue for platforms at stations further down the line, though.
If a company is repeatedly dishonest with passengers, it's not surprising that they become suspicious.
But, with respect, your position seems a little contradictory. On the one hand you’re demanding further detail from Northern, but the above post suggests that you aren’t prepared to believe any explanation other than the one you’ve already decided must be the correct. So what would be the point of them trotting out Preston’s roof or signal failure?!
Isn’t it more useful to stick to the known facts, rather than just criticising for the sake of it? There was a major storm yesterday that has affected other TOCs in the same area. Not all of the routes they’re struggling to run today are the ones that fall over due to lack of crew, and the ones that are causing them a problem tomorrow they’ve been upfront about as far as I can see, just as they are every weekend.
I don’t see any reason to assume they’re cancelling trains today “to save money”, which we’ve already established wouldn’t work (despite your assertions to the contrary). Similarly, I don’t see how you can confidently conclude that stock isn’t out of place, as people upthread who work for Northern have suggested it will be. Indeed, it would be more surprising if it wasn’t!
I’m sure the explanation given will be perfectly adequate for most people given yesterday’s events.
Remember that most people are simply interested in knowing where and when they can travel, so that they can plan accordingly, rather than endless detail on why any particular part of the network can or can’t be served.
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Interesting - not good news. I’m sure more detail will be made available soon by those in the know.
One would hope by tomorrow at least a Northern service can cover Preston to Lancaster at minimum, and a replacement bus service between Lancaster and Carlisle at minimum.
D6130
Established Member
To be fair, Carlisle-based Northern crews are covered by 'Eastern' conditions of service, with Sundays as part of the working week, so they have few difficulties in covering their work.
The Network Rail Scotland Twitter account has said plans to open late tomorrow afternoon with 3 sections of OLE damage near Carstairs
Already starting to explore options for when meant to be back from Glasgow to Yorkshire Monday night which may involve many hours wandering Leeds at 3am
InkyScrolls
On Moderation
Yes there is. Many trees down between Settle Jct. and Carnforth which are still being removed.
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Carlisle is under Eastern Ts&Cs.
Lemmy99uk
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I remember 20 years ago, after the major flooding in Carlisle, my immediate manager demanding to know why the train crew weren’t turning up for work on the days afterwards.
I had to explain the extent of the damage to infrastructure and property suffered by so many. The worst affected were trying to dry out what was left of their belongings but many others were without power or water and were doing their best in such circumstances to look after their families.
As I sit and type this, I have a coal fire burning, I have 2 battery lights ready for use later, I have a camping stove set up in the kitchen for hot water and my router is running of a power pack that I managed to borrow today.
The power lines that supply my villages and the 2 adjacent ones are lying in a field with the a transformer on a post at a jaunty angle. As of this moment there are no engineers in attendance and no hint of when we will get reconnected.
My neighbours to the left (a couple with a young daughter), have left to stay with friends. Others in the village (including myself), have spent the day at rescue centres dotted around the county that are providing warmth and hot refreshments.
We are not an isolated case, there are thousands of people similarly affected and some of these will be the people meant to be operating, repairing and cleaning the trains.
Its not all as conspiratorial as some people think.
I had to explain the extent of the damage to infrastructure and property suffered by so many. The worst affected were trying to dry out what was left of their belongings but many others were without power or water and were doing their best in such circumstances to look after their families.
As I sit and type this, I have a coal fire burning, I have 2 battery lights ready for use later, I have a camping stove set up in the kitchen for hot water and my router is running of a power pack that I managed to borrow today.
The power lines that supply my villages and the 2 adjacent ones are lying in a field with the a transformer on a post at a jaunty angle. As of this moment there are no engineers in attendance and no hint of when we will get reconnected.
My neighbours to the left (a couple with a young daughter), have left to stay with friends. Others in the village (including myself), have spent the day at rescue centres dotted around the county that are providing warmth and hot refreshments.
We are not an isolated case, there are thousands of people similarly affected and some of these will be the people meant to be operating, repairing and cleaning the trains.
Its not all as conspiratorial as some people think.
Tetchytyke
Veteran Member
Northern have said the trains are cancelled “due to the forecast adverse weather”. That’s the reason listed on JourneyCheck. This was the reason they gave on Thursday when they made the decision.
There was no adverse weather forecast for today. There never has been.
The line is open at least as far as Lancaster/Oxenholme.
Maybe there is another reason. Maybe it is storm damage. If so, say so, people will appreciate the honesty.
But forgive me for not entirely trusting Northern on this one. They have form. Especially as the routes cancelled in the north west (so not the S&C/Little North Western) are the ones where there are chronic staffing issues.
ETA the timing is what really sets my spidey-senses tingling. They made this call on Thursday, using the forecast weather as the reason. There was no adverse weather forecast for today. So I think they are being obfuscatory at best, disingenuous at worst.
The S&C I get. It’s a remote windswept railway with a history of fatal accidents in bad weather. You can say the same about them Little North Western, Millom to Whitehaven too.The rest? Hmm.
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Quite.
Why should anyone give an organisation the benefit of the doubt if experience shows they are neither open nor honest?
I think that can reasonably be put down to yesterday’s adverse weather, and the wrong code being entered: “never attribute to malice that which can adequately be explained by stupidity” etc.
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Tetchytyke
Veteran Member
No, they were very clear on Thursday that there would be no service on the Barrow and Windermere to Manchester route. Which is why I’m so cynical about their reasoning as they didn’t say that for the other routes that were closed on Friday.I think that can reasonably be put down to yesterday’s adverse weather, and the wrong code being entered: “never attribute to malice that which can adequately be explained by stupidity” etc.
It’s worth pointing out that services between Barrow and Preston were reintroduced from after midday as well as services between Workington and Carlisle.
Although, Workington to Carlisle was disrupted by a track circuit failure at Flimby and an alleged track defect at Aspatria.
Up until 1800 because of the domestic power supply failure at various locations between Barrow and Workington its very unlikely trains would have ran regardless.
No conspiracy here!
Although, Workington to Carlisle was disrupted by a track circuit failure at Flimby and an alleged track defect at Aspatria.
Up until 1800 because of the domestic power supply failure at various locations between Barrow and Workington its very unlikely trains would have ran regardless.
No conspiracy here!
Hence not being a basket case
As JourneyCheck is as of this afternoon:
Nothing about "forecast severe weather" today...
Intercity_225
Member
1S01 now finally moving from Little Mill, only 612 mins down.
Tetchytyke
Veteran Member
Northern’s line update:
If you go into the individual cancellations it says “due to adverse weather” or “due to forecast adverse weather”. Except, randomly, the 1611 from Barrow which is cancelled “due to passengers causing a disturbance on this train.” I’m guessing someone pressed the wrong button?
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But fair play that they did eventually try and run something.
They’ve updated it.
If you go into the individual cancellations it says “due to adverse weather” or “due to forecast adverse weather”. Except, randomly, the 1611 from Barrow which is cancelled “due to passengers causing a disturbance on this train.” I’m guessing someone pressed the wrong button?
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I’ve just seen. That wasn’t (and still isn’t) on Northern’s website:
They’re also terminating them early…
But fair play that they did eventually try and run something.
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Caused by passenger(s) urinating in the saloon.
That line update is for tomorrow.
Which is correct? Adverse weather brought trees down and damaged the line, hence the cancellations. Seems reasonable to me.
There is no big conspiracy here.
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