Storm Eowyn Disruption - 24/1/25

[43066]

Assuming anyone volunteered, of course. They might be too busy putting their fence back up.

Well there is that!

I think the general point is that RDW is “locked in” days in advance, so deciding to run fewer trains today wouldn’t save on the overtime budget, as such volunteers as there are would still be entitled to payment for just turning up and sitting in the messroom.

 

[dk1]

I’m confused why people think TOCs do something like that just to save money. It’s a myth because having worked for one since their inception I have never known that be the case once with traincrew.

 

[43066]

I’m confused why people think TOCs do something like that just to save money. It’s a myth because having worked for one since their inception I have never known that be the case once with traincrew.

Same experience here. It’s a bit like when people suggest operational decisions are always to avoid delay repay.

 

[D1537]

When was the route proving trip with the diesel conducted?

57012 ran from Newcastle to Berwick and back last night, arriving back in Newcastle at 0051.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Wouldn’t they have volunteered before Eowyn had arrived?

Who knows. Northern have their standard DO NOT TRAVEL in place this Sunday due to staffing. Why would Saturday be any different?

Anyone else and maybe I wouldn’t be so cynical, but it’s exactly the sort of dirty trick I’d expect Northern to pull at this stage.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Jan 2025 ==

I’m confused why people think TOCs do something like that just to save money.

I can’t see another reason why Northern are refusing to operate services from Manchester to north Lancashire and Cumbria. I’m not a believer in coincidence either, and these are the same routes which are covered by the standard Sunday DO NOT TRAVEL due to a shortage of train crew.

Maybe they should explain it properly instead of insulting our intelligence by saying it’s due to the weather when- looking out of the window- it clearly isn’t. It’s not even like there’s still a weather warning in place for the affected area.

 

[dk1]

Who knows. Northern have their standard DO NOT TRAVEL in place this Sunday due to staffing. Why would Saturday be any different?

Anyone else and maybe I wouldn’t be so cynical, but it’s exactly the sort of dirty trick I’d expect Northern to pull at this stage.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Jan 2025 ==


I can’t see another reason why Northern are refusing to operate services from Manchester to north Lancashire and Cumbria. I’m not a believer in coincidence either, and these are the same routes which are covered by the standard Sunday DO NOT TRAVEL due to a shortage of train crew.

Maybe they should explain it properly instead of insulting our intelligence by saying it’s due to the weather when- looking out of the window- it clearly isn’t.

Sundays are a totally different scenario for overtime and rostering.

 

[darloscott]

There were several routes closed by Network Rail until 1200 today… that may have got extended due to damage. That includes Cumbrian Coast & Windermere, S&C and Morecambe. Penistone & Calder Valley (Halifax-Hebden Bridge) both closed for majority of yesterday, so Northern couldn’t have ran trains even if they wanted to.

 

[nr758123]

Indeed! It's not all some great conspiracy...

There will always be some who think it is, just ignore them...

One could be forgiven for thinking that given Northern's appalling record.

I don't go with the conspiracy theory, but there's a reason why Northern's passengers have long since ceased to give them the benefit of the doubt.

 

[PyrahnaRanger]

It seem that Avanti and TPE are running to Carlisle and Glasgow.

Avanti are definitely not at present. I've just got off the 0930 Euston to(theoretically) Glasgow, which terminated at Preston.

But you don’t know that that’s really the issue, this is just your own supposition. Why would they need to use the storm as an excuse this weekend, when virtually every other weekend they admit their cancellations are due to crewing issues?

I'm not a fan or Northern, but there are quite a few trees down in our neck of the woods, and our power went off at around 5AM. I was incredibly pleased when ENWL rang to tell me that... Estimated fix 18:00 tomorrow (Sunday).

One assumes so though normally it's above 5/6 it comes down.

It's not shut. We've just been into 5.

On one of those "this could be better things":

There were hundreds of people waiting for the 1204 to Carlisle (TPE). As many people as possible for on, but a large number (including myself) didn't. What would make sense to me is if the staff here were able to say "ok, you group of 30, wait in this area, and we'll make sure you get first dibs on the next one" rather than "can you all go away, it's your own fault as you were told not to travel", when TPE say Do Not Travel north of Carlisle.

It would cost bugger all to implement, but you'd have 30 happy customers instead of 30 pissed off people wandering around the platform.

As an aside, as I'm not covered by the Do Not Travel, am I eligible for Delay Repay?

 

[PyrahnaRanger]

There were several routes closed by Network Rail until 1200 today… that may have got extended due to damage. That includes Cumbrian Coast & Windermere, S&C and Morecambe. Penistone & Calder Valley (Halifax-Hebden Bridge) both closed for majority of yesterday, so Northern couldn’t have ran trains even if they wanted to.

Is there somewhere it states that? I was looking at NWR website and didn't see it was closed?

National Rail has a generic do not travel in the north west, Northern just has don't travel due to the storm and doesn't say the line is shut. If it is, that's a bit more forgiveable than just they can't be bothered to run it

 

[marsker]

They had route proved and NWR Tweeted this morning that the line was open,
However, further issues have occurred hence the suspension.

Noticeable that the Chathill Flyer ran punctually both ways this morning.

 

[ainsworth74]

Who knows. Northern have their standard DO NOT TRAVEL in place this Sunday due to staffing. Why would Saturday be any different?

Because Saturday is part of the working week so overtime is only required as cover rather than to run the entire operation (in the North West, different arrangements apply in the East) as it is on Sunday.

 

[Starmill]

Indeed! It's not all some great conspiracy...

Barrow-in-Furness and Blackpool North (multiple) all have quite poor records for covering their work. Workington not quite as bad, Carlisle better than the rest.

 

[Tetchytyke]

There were several routes closed by Network Rail until 1200 today… that may have got extended due to damage. That includes Cumbrian Coast & Windermere

The line is open to Oxenholme, so they could run as far as there.

Thing is, I’m not prepared to give Northern the benefit of the doubt anymore. The explanation they’ve offered doesn’t stand up to scrutiny; there is no bad weather today and- even more importantly- nor was any forecast.

If there is a good reason I’d love for them to communicate it.

 

[800001]

Noticeable that the Chathill Flyer ran punctually both ways this morning.

1S01 suffered damage to the unit, believed to be caused by OHL damage, picture I’ve seen, not mine to share, shows a registration arm Severely damaged.
1S01 is still later now, just north of Little Mills Crossovers, Alnmouth.
Customers have been evacuated onto another train.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Because Saturday is part of the working week so overtime is only required as cover rather than to run the entire operation

Which again rather supports my opinion that Northern knew they didn’t have enough staff to run the Saturday service so they’ve chosen to hide behind a feeble excuse.

I’m quite prepared to accept I’m being too cynical if someone can point to an official reason why Northern can’t- as opposed to won’t- run the trains to Barrow and Oxenholme.

 

[Starmill]

As an aside, as I'm not covered by the Do Not Travel, am I eligible for Delay Repay?

There aren't any exceptions when it comes to a true Delay Repay scheme so yes.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If there is a good reason I’d love for them to communicate it.

This is the problem. Communication has been poor. If you're going to seriously inconvenience people when it's sunny and still, you need to be giving a comprehensive and honest explanation of why.

Trampoline on the line? Wires down? A picture tells a thousand words.

 

[MikeWM]

Just to be clear, the line between Preston and Carlisle is open, the weather is fine, but Avanti can't be bothered to run north of Preston and is relying on TPE to transport passengers that way? Yet again?

How is this considered remotely acceptable? It's one thing to not run services when it may be dangerous, as yesterday, but that hardly applies today.

 

[43066]

I’m quite prepared to accept I’m being too cynical if someone can point to an official reason why Northern can’t- as opposed to won’t- run the trains to Barrow and Oxenholme.

The “official reason” is the major weather event which occurred yesterday, and ensuing disruption which is continuing today. Stock displacement likely to be a key one, from what was stated upthread. It’s unlikely that there will be more detail than that in the public messaging.

You still haven’t explained why you’re so convinced they’re lying about it today, when on every other day they don’t lie about the same issue, or what they would have to gain by doing so?

 

[D1537]

1S01 suffered damage to the unit, believed to be caused by OHL damage, picture I’ve seen, not mine to share, shows a registration arm Severely damaged.
1S01 is still later now, just north of Little Mills Crossovers, Alnmouth.
Customers have been evacuated onto another train.

Both 1S91 and 1W02 overtook 1S01, so it will be one of those I'd guess. Hopefully 1W02 which carried on to Edinburgh 2 hours late. 1S91 (which was also overtaken by 1W02) finally arrived at Berwick 200 down and has presumably terminated there as it's been there 45 minutes now. Being a Lumo it has no diesel capacity even on emergency (something which saved us on an LNER 801/2 near Berwick last month!)

However, 1V54 has terminated at Berwick 232 late and since that is a Voyager there's clearly an issue that isn't OHL related.

 

[Bletchleyite]

You still haven’t explained why you’re so convinced they’re lying about it today, when on every other day they don’t lie about the same issue, or what they would have to gain by doing so?

Obfuscation is so ingrained in their culture that I think they do it without thinking. "Due to a late notice change to the timetable" says it all. This non-excuse should never, ever be announced manually (I get that autoannouncers can't use common sense) but it invariably is.

It's a rotten culture. The TOC is rotten to the core - in how they treat their passengers and frontline staff alike.

 

[800001]

Both 1S91 and 1W02 overtook 1S01, so it will be one of those I'd guess. Hopefully 1W02 which carried on to Edinburgh 2 hours late. 1S91 (which was also overtaken by 1W02) finally arrived at Berwick 200 down and has presumably terminated there as it's been there 45 minutes now. Being a Lumo it has no diesel capacity even on emergency (something which saved us on an LNER 801/2 near Berwick last month!)

However, 1V54 has terminated at Berwick 232 late and since that is a Voyager there's clearly an issue that isn't OHL related.

Or they have blocked the line to all traffic, to a) fix 1S01 to enable to to move and/or b) fix the OHL to allow all traffic to run?

 

[43066]

Just to be clear, the line between Preston and Carlisle is open, the weather is fine, but Avanti can't be bothered to run north of Preston and is relying on TPE to transport passengers that way? Yet again?

How is this considered remotely acceptable? It's one thing to not run services when it may be dangerous, as yesterday, but that hardly applies today.

At a pinch: Crew/stock displacement overrunning from yesterday; Scottish crews unable to get south this morning; Preston is a crew depot and a large station with many platforms where trains can be left while awaiting crews, and with sensible onward alternatives (TPE in this case); the need to prioritise the service to the south of Preston.

Obfuscation is so ingrained in their culture that I think they do it without thinking. "Due to a late notice change to the timetable" says it all. This non-excuse should never, ever be announced manually (I get that autoannouncers can't use common sense) but it invariably is.

Agreed, especially re. the timetable alterations thing, which is ridiculous. They generally seem to be more upfront about lack of crew, though.

 

[Struner]

..

That looks either photoshopped or AI generated.

from scotrail’s farcebook page…

 

[jammmmmsssssss]

Both 1S91 and 1W02 overtook 1S01, so it will be one of those I'd guess. Hopefully 1W02 which carried on to Edinburgh 2 hours late. 1S91 (which was also overtaken by 1W02) finally arrived at Berwick 200 down and has presumably terminated there as it's been there 45 minutes now. Being a Lumo it has no diesel capacity even on emergency (something which saved us on an LNER 801/2 near Berwick last month!)

However, 1V54 has terminated at Berwick 232 late and since that is a Voyager there's clearly an issue that isn't OHL related.

1E06 looks like it was next to it on the opposite line for over two hours

 

[Bald Rick]

I’m confused why people think TOCs do something like that just to save money. It’s a myth because having worked for one since their inception I have never known that be the case once with traincrew.

100% agree.

Same experience here. It’s a bit like when people suggest operational decisions are always to avoid delay repay.

100% agree!

And that Wetherspoons buy beer close to sell by date

Well, that is true

 

[Bletchleyite]

If TOCs were actively trying to avoid Delay Repay (which to be fair is part of its purpose - financial incentive to reduce delay) they wouldn't keep overpaying me when I apply for it!

 

[D1537]

1E06 looks like it was next to it on the opposite line for over two hours

Good point, I didn't consider decanting the passengers onto a southbound. Nice 6 hour journey from Newcastle to Alnmouth and back for those passengers!

Presumably 1W02 overtook1S91 because it was a bimode so less unaffected by any further OHL shenanigans.

 

[Lewisham2221]

The “official reason” is the major weather event which occurred yesterday, and ensuing disruption which is continuing today. Stock displacement likely to be a key one, from what was stated upthread. It’s unlikely that there will be more detail than that in the public messaging.

You still haven’t explained why you’re so convinced they’re lying about it today, when on every other day they don’t lie about the same issue, or what they would have to gain by doing so?

People were having a similar argument about TfW not running on the North Wales Coast after Storm Darragh in December. Somebody, the following day, was repeatedly stating that the weather was fine so TfW must be able to run a service. "They've not posted photographic evidence of anything blocking the line" was another argument. I'm pretty sure someone was also claiming that TfW were using the weather to hide staffing issues, which is pure nonsense as TfW staffing issues are almost non-existent in comparison to other TOCs. It turned out that there were actually multiple issues and instructions along the line and it took the proving train 2 days to get from Holyhead to Chester. Northern may be far from perfect, but that doesn't mean they're lying.