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Storm Bert Saturday 23rd November

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1D54

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So i get on a rail replacement at Gobowen heading to Wrexham, get there and told there is now a rail replacement for Shrewsbury (where i wanted to go) so 30 minutes later I'm back at Gobowen. Shouldn't complain really as it must have been one hell of an effort getting all these coaches out today and i chose to travel when it was far from necessary.
 
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Banham7

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Unsure if directly related to the storm but 1A33 801107+800204 seem to have hit an obstruction just north of Sandy and have been there since 15:31. Newark Thunderbird is on its way to assist.
 

takethegame

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Unsure if directly related to the storm but 1A33 801107+800204 seem to have hit an obstruction just north of Sandy and have been there since 15:31. Newark Thunderbird is on its way to assist.
1A94 is stuck behind it and everything else is switching from UF to US before St. Neots and back to UF after Sandy after passing it. Obviously it's having an effect on the timetable
 

Mcr Warrior

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Today's weather isn't "severe", it's seasonal. Sometimes you get wind and rain in November; I think most of us know that!
Certainly seems to have been grotty in Central Scotland today. Where were you viewing today's events from?
 

CW2

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By way of comparison, the 1000 Kings Cross to Aberdeen today ran perfectly throughout the journey, and arrived punctually. It was pretty full, I suspect including a few refugees from the WCML. We overtook a delayed Cross Country service at York, and gained some of their passengers too.
 

40129

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Not sure if it's anything to do with the storm, but 1H91 lost 45 minutes between Mickle Trafford and Frodsham. Ended up scrapping my plans for the evening as a result
 

stuu

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What is wrong with this country - it's a bit of wind and rain for Christs sake! Back in the good old days the Rail Service always got you home and they didn't just throw in the towel when a bit of wind and rain came along. I've just seen one train on National Rail cancelled due to 'forecasted bad weather'! Whatever next - trains cancelled due to a 'forecasted Nuclear War with Russia'? I travelled 6 days on the Trans Siberian Railway years ago in mid winter with snow everywhere and minus 20 temperatures across an entire Continent. Other countries must look at us and just laugh.............
Of course they do, because it's like that every year for months and months. We could spend billions on snow shelters and wind breaks and far stronger OHLE and snow ploughs and all the rest. And it would only be any use three days each winter or whatever. Would that be sensible, or would we be better off just putting up with occasional disruption?

It's called opportunity cost, it's a well known concept. And the trains didn't always get through in the past. There are plenty of examples of trains getting stuck for hours, and even days sometimes in the harshest winters
 

Trainguy34

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1A33 has only just started moving, about 145 mins late with multiple trains stuck behind with similar delays.
 

Elorith

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A hypothetical and unlikely situation. We all know how to find a weather forecast and make our own decision as to whether or not to travel, we don't need TOCs making the decision for us by abandoning their responsibilities.

Today's weather isn't "severe", it's seasonal. Sometimes you get wind and rain in November; I think most of us know that!
Seriously? Is this meant to be some sort of joke? :D

Coach recruitment at Carlisle has been a challenge for as long as because there are very few firms in the area and even fewer who would be willing to run in conditions like this. If you wanted to make some money, setting up one nearby would be very healthy investment because the return from Avanti and TPE would be enormous. The TOCs have often had to put passengers up in hotels as a result of the on-the-day service perturbation.

As I type, conditions are very poor with up to 100mm of rainfall expected in one of the forecast models. TPE had to abandon PRE - CAR because of flooding and the North Cumbrian coast is underwater! The decisions of TOCs not to run anything besides the very limited token service and risk stranding thousands of people has very much been vindicated.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

I think the idea that in the past "the train would always get through" during bad weather is a case of rose tinted spectacles. I recall many a weather related disruption incident in the days of BR in the 70s and 80s.
I agree. Severe weather has also become increasingly common with the changing global climate.
 

Starmill

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A hypothetical and unlikely situation. We all know how to find a weather forecast and make our own decision as to whether or not to travel, we don't need TOCs making the decision for us by abandoning their responsibilities.

Today's weather isn't "severe", it's seasonal. Sometimes you get wind and rain in November; I think most of us know that!
There is a severe weather warning for much of Northern England in force for rain still, until at least 0700.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

I think the idea that in the past "the train would always get through" during bad weather is a case of rose tinted spectacles. I recall many a weather related disruption incident in the days of BR in the 70s and 80s.
Indeed - people of course couldn't follow the news in real time prior to the widespread adoption of the internet.
 

Falcon1200

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I've just seen one train on National Rail cancelled due to 'forecasted bad weather'!

During my railway Control career I worked far too many shifts when, with adverse weather forecast, we had planned to operate a normal timetable, in effect promising passengers that we would get them out and get them home, only for the service to collapse when the weather struck. Leaving trains, passengers and staff stranded, with great difficulty, and indeed hazards, involved in rescuing them.

And what do you do when the route ends up being closed and you have hundreds if not thousands of passengers stranded in Carlisle with no possibility of recruiting enough road replacement or taxis to move them?

Exactly.

Today's weather isn't "severe", it's seasonal. Sometimes you get wind and rain in November; I think most of us know that!

I have never known conditions as bad in my part of the world (East Renfrewshire) in November as today; Roads are impassable due to snow, and one had been blocked by a skidded and now wedged car.

Certainly seems to have been grotty in Central Scotland today.

Indeed, bus services in Edinburgh were withdrawn for a time.
 

D1537

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Not only have Avanti been "unable" to run any sort of a useful service between Preston and Glasgow today while a railtour had no issues whatsoever (so far- it's currently passing Oxenholme on the way back), it turns out that the apologetic trains they did manage to run between Carlisle and Glasgow were timed for 1 hour and 20 minutes between Glasgow Bridge St. and Glasgow Central (half a mile). Since they were running in normal paths, would I be too cynical to suggest that was so they didn't have to pay out any delay repay?
 

philthetube

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What is wrong with this country - it's a bit of wind and rain for Christs sake! Back in the good old days the Rail Service always got you home and they didn't just throw in the towel when a bit of wind and rain came along. I've just seen one train on National Rail cancelled due to 'forecasted bad weather'! Whatever next - trains cancelled due to a 'forecasted Nuclear War with Russia'? I travelled 6 days on the Trans Siberian Railway years ago in mid winter with snow everywhere and minus 20 temperatures across an entire Continent. Other countries must look at us and just laugh.............

Better like this was it.

link leads to article in The Scotsman detailing a train stuck in snow for 2.5 days on the Kyle of Lochalsh line before rescuers arrived, also shows picture of engine with only funnel showing above the snow.
 

yorksrob

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Well, they can run charter trains through Lancaster, so it seems, but not anything else.
 

CaptainHaddock

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Certainly seems to have been grotty in Central Scotland today. Where were you viewing today's events from?
South Yorkshire. As it happens I was hoping to find a non league football match to go to today (as a neutral) and found a couple that were on but decided against it as I had no faith in the relevant TOCs to get me home. Yet according to Real Time Trains it seems I would have been fine.

It might have been a little breezier further North but round here the "severe" weather has been little more than persistent rain that appears to have had a negligible effect on rail services.
 
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After Bert Foord? Let’s see how many get that one…..
Oh I so wish it was! Apparently the name Bert was chosen by Dutch met office, so not likely.
But if it had been how much fun would he have had with the forecast!

Picture shows Bert Foord in front of weather map
 

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D6130

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Not only have Avanti been "unable" to run any sort of a useful service between Preston and Glasgow today while a railtour had no issues whatsoever (so far- it's currently passing Oxenholme on the way back),
Well, they can run charter trains through Lancaster, so it seems, but not anything else.
Railtour charter crewing is a totally different ball game from that of TOCs....for better or for worse. They have their own dedicated crews - or those hired from freight companies - with very wide-ranging route knowledge and - dare I say it - less stringent PN break requirements in many cases. Also, a steam locomotive can run through deeper flood water than diesel or electric traction - albeit under caution - because they don't have bogie-mounted traction motors. You just have to make sure that the water doesn't come up to firebox grate level!
 
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yorksrob

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Railtour charter crewing is a totally different ball game from that of TOCs....for better or for worse. They have their own dedicated crews - or those hired from freight companies - with very wide-ranging route knowledge and - dare I say it - less stringent PN break requirements in many cases. Also, a steam locomotive can run through deeper flood water than diesel or electric traction -albeit under caution - because they don't have bogie-mounted traction motors. You just have to make sure that the water doesn't come up to firebos grate level!

Ah well, I've booked in a hotel now so don't have to worry :)
 

Taunton

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Of course they do, because it's like that every year for months and months. We could spend billions on snow shelters and wind breaks and far stronger OHLE and snow ploughs and all the rest. And it would only be any use three days each winter or whatever. Would that be sensible, or would we be better off just putting up with occasional disruption?
Unfortunately Russia never had the money to spend such billions, and I have never seen a snow shelter there. They have handy low level ploughs on locos and electric units, which are just a piece of steel. The snowploughs appear to be fitted on the oldest retired equipment, as so often elsewhere. Britain used to do the same, snowploughs were commonly built on old steam loco tenders ballasted up.
 

VioletEclipse

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Amusingly (almost), I note that Edinburgh's bus network was suspended owing to the snow earlier, but that the city's open-top tour buses were magically able to continue running (albeit pointlessly)...
To my understanding it wasn't without reason that the bus network was temporarily suspended. A large amount of the bus services run to places quite distant from the city where snowfall is usually significantly worse. On top of that, even in the city centre there were numerous roads clogged up with stranded vehicles or simply impassable for buses as well as the snow continuing to fall and worsen the situation until almost midday. At shortly before 11:00 when they suspended all bus services it wasn't really safe or sensible to do much else considering the increasing risk and increasing amount of the network not able to be served, including some important central corridors.

As per the tour buses I can't confirm either way, but I believe I did see a tour bus go off service shortly after services were suspened and had assumed they all went back to the depot where possible like all the other buses.
 

RGM654

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Railtour charter crewing is a totally different ball game from that of TOCs....for better or for worse. They have their own dedicated crews - or those hired from freight companies - with very wide-ranging route knowledge and - dare I say it - less stringent PN break requirements in many cases. Also, a steam locomotive can run through deeper flood water than diesel or electric traction -albeit under caution - because they don't have bogie-mounted traction motors. You just have to make sure that the water doesn't come up to firebos grate level!
The particular railtour that got through to Edinburgh today and is approaching Crewe on the way back is not steam hauled.
 

D6130

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The particular railtour that got through to Edinburgh today and is approaching Crewe on the way back is not steam hauled.
Interesting. I thought it was the aforementioned one hauled by 61306 "Mayflower". Can only assume that the floodwaters have subsided to below railhead level then.
 
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yorksrob

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The particular railtour that got through to Edinburgh today and is approaching Crewe on the way back is not steam hauled.

Interesting. I thought it was the aforementioned one hauled by 61306 "Mayflower". Can only assume that the floodwaters haaave subsided to below railhead level then.

Yes, definitely not a kettle when it went through.
 

Wivenswold

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What is wrong with this country - it's a bit of wind and rain for Christs sake! Back in the good old days the Rail Service always got you home and they didn't just throw in the towel when a bit of wind and rain came along. I've just seen one train on National Rail cancelled due to 'forecasted bad weather'! Whatever next - trains cancelled due to a 'forecasted Nuclear War with Russia'? I travelled 6 days on the Trans Siberian Railway years ago in mid winter with snow everywhere and minus 20 temperatures across an entire Continent. Other countries must look at us and just laugh.............
Yes, "the good old days" were better.
1732395941507.png
 

317 forever

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I was due to have a bus trip around Altrincham today, which I postponed until next Thursday. Apart from the small matter of being likely to find the weather very unpleasant, I was concerned about buses being cancelled if the drivers or operators deemed it unsafe to drive any of the routes I wanted.

I occasionally looked on the TfGM website, and there was no sign of them being affected. However, it was very hard to be sure.
 

kje7812

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Interesting. I thought it was the aforementioned one hauled by 61306 "Mayflower". Can only assume that the floodwaters have subsided to below railhead level then.
The Mayflower one was just to York. The one to Edinburgh via the west coast was a 86 and 47.
 

DelW

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There is absolutely no comparison. It is much easier to prepare for the conditions when you have them for 3 months of year, rather than a handful of days every winter. Sure, we could procuring / maintain all the services required to the standards as if we had the same climate as Siberia / Alps, but I bet people like you would be the first people to complain we weren't getting value for money because of how infrequently there were used....

Of course they do, because it's like that every year for months and months. We could spend billions on snow shelters and wind breaks and far stronger OHLE and snow ploughs and all the rest. And it would only be any use three days each winter or whatever. Would that be sensible, or would we be better off just putting up with occasional disruption?
I have a recollection that about 15 years ago, a snowstorm closed Heathrow Airport for an extended period. There was a huge media fuss, politicians got involved, Heathrow management had to grovel, and as a result, the airport invested in a new, larger fleet of snow-clearing equipment.

I doubt if it's turned a wheel in anger more than a handful of times in the last decade, if that ...
 
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