Storm Bert Saturday 23rd November

[yorksrob]

I have a recollection that about 15 years ago, a snowstorm closed Heathrow Airport for an extended period. There was a huge media fuss, politicians got involved, Heathrow management had to grovel, and as a result, the airport invested in a new, larger fleet of snow-clearing equipment.

I doubt if it's turned a wheel in anger more than a handful of times in the last decade, if that ...

It's good to have snow clearing equipment available. Sure I see it at Doncaster. Even if it's not used very often, I'm glad its there.

 

[harz99]

In amongst all the chatter about WCML today, something that happened in the Doncaster area of ECML this morning around 1015/1030 on the southbound caused several trains to be delayed by 60 minutes or more, anybody know what?

 

[D6130]

The Mayflower one was just to York. The one to Edinburgh via the west coast was a 86 and 47.

Thanks. Found it on RTT eventually. The return working to Barrow-in-Furness should have travelled via the Calder Valley line....but was diverted via Marsden due to flooding and fallen trees and was well over two hours late arriving in the Manchester area.

 

[D1537]

Thanks. Found it on RTT eventually. The return working to Barrow-in-Furness should have travelled via the Calder Valley line....but was diverted via Marsden due to flooding and fallen trees and was well over two hours late arriving in the Manchester area.

The Edinburgh one was Gloucester to Edinburgh and return and had few problems. It's just left Birmingham.

Realtime Trains | 1Z55 1510 Berwick-upon-Tweed to Gloucester | 23/11/2024

Real-time train running information for 1Z55 1510 departure from Berwick-upon-Tweed to Gloucester on 23/11/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[DelW]

It's good to have snow clearing equipment available. Sure I see it at Doncaster. Even if it's not used very often, I'm glad its there.

Indeed, but IIRC Heathrow substantially enlarged as well as updating its previously existing fleet, for what proved to be a very unusual, possibly recently unique, event. But I've rather got off topic here

 

[yorksrob]

Indeed, but IIRC Heathrow substantially enlarged as well as updating its previously existing fleet, for what proved to be a very unusual, possibly recently unique, event. But I've rather got off topic here

Yes, maybe Heathrow was too far !!

In terms of Lancaster, I've been here all afternoon and the weather's been like a drizzly mill pond.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm on the 2237 out of Euston, it's 12 car and half empty. These "vomit comets" are usually pretty busy. I think most people decided not to risk it.

 

[156421]

Rail 'n' sail from Belfast to Barrow-in-Furness tomorrow...
11:30 - 13:52 ferry Belfast to Cairnryan (still showing as sailing although the 07:30 (previous one) is cancelled)
14:15 - 15:30 bus Cairnryan to Ayr (no idea who runs this but on the outbound journey yesterday it ran more or less to time and had a total of 4 passengers myself included)
15:45 - 16:36 train Ayr to Glasgow Central (Scotrail 2K18 AYR-GLC)
17:03 - 19:22 train Glasgow Central to Lancaster (TPE 1M92 GLC-MIA)
20:04 - 21:05 train Lancaster to Barrow (Northern 1C58 MIA-BIF)

Let's see where I end up getting stranded overnight!

 

[LittleRedTrain]

Looks like a tree down at Seer Green has caused chaos for the late evening trains on the Chiltern line.
Last two Birmingham trains shown as terminated at Banbury (as well as the last XC to New St) and the last three Marylebone-Banbury trains cancelled throughout.

Suspect the local taxi drivers are going to be doing nicely tonight!
May also mean stock and crews out of place for tomorrow.

 

[Chingy]

The last Pompey - Cardiff train is running circa 2 hours late due to a large tree blocking the line in the Salisbury area.

Currently due to arrive into Cardiff Central at 01:50. At least there’s plenty of capacity though, being a 7 car, all class 158, formation.

Realtime Trains | 1F34 2023 Portsmouth Harbour to Bristol Temple Meads | 23/11/2024

Real-time train running information for 1F34 2023 departure from Portsmouth Harbour to Bristol Temple Meads on 23/11/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[stuu]

Indeed, but IIRC Heathrow substantially enlarged as well as updating its previously existing fleet, for what proved to be a very unusual, possibly recently unique, event. But I've rather got off topic here

They did, but no, it's not off topic as such. The fact is it is cheaper to deal with the odd bit of disruption rather than spend money year-in year-out on things which aren't needed is entirely rational. Something the newspapers, and commenters in this thread, seem to forget

 

[Dave S 56F]

The Mayflower one was just to York. The one to Edinburgh via the west coast was a 86 and 47.

There's also been the Railway touring Co Edinburgh Xmas market 45407 black 5 steam hauled throughout York Edinburgh ret it's made it back to York 15 mins late.
The saphos Warrington B.Q. York and York to Barrow in furness has been terminated at Preston and had to be routed via huddersfield along the colne valley rather than the calder valley due to the trouble with the flooding at Walsden.

 

[GusB]

*Yawn*
Once again we have the usual, predictable, responses from the same people.

What is wrong is that more and more personal responsibility is steadily being removed from individuals, meaning that more and more is piled onto organisations, with the addition of financial penalties for failure whilen trying to provide a service. Who can be surprised, then, if organisations throw in the towel more and more readily? It's hard to know where it will end. However, of course, the road network is different so people are largely able to regulate themselves, despite it being inherently far more dangerous.

Absolutely! Personal responsibility is key and people will make decisions based on the urgency of their journey and the information provided to them during disruption. If that advice is "Do Not Travel", it's still up to the individual whether or not they wish to make that journey, even if it goes against said advice. That "personal responsibility" will go out of the window when someone who fails to heed sensible advice ends up stranded and they demand that the rail operator either provides a taxi or puts them up in a hotel for the night.

A hypothetical and unlikely situation. We all know how to find a weather forecast and make our own decision as to whether or not to travel, we don't need TOCs making the decision for us by abandoning their responsibilities.

Today's weather isn't "severe", it's seasonal. Sometimes you get wind and rain in November; I think most of us know that!

The weather in your area may not have been severe; that's not to say that it hasn't been severe a few miles away. There was some snowfall here a few days ago, but it fell in the night and was gone by the time that most people would be getting up. I drove to the nearest town (also on the coast) earlier today and it was evident that some snow had fallen. I wouldn't have to go too far inland to see a completely different picture.

Nobody is preventing you from making your own decision as to whether or not to travel; that decision is still entirely up to you, but don't come crying when it all goes horribly wrong and you have no contingency plan!

 

[Porty]

Rail 'n' sail from Belfast to Barrow-in-Furness tomorrow...
11:30 - 13:52 ferry Belfast to Cairnryan (still showing as sailing although the 07:30 (previous one) is cancelled)
14:15 - 15:30 bus Cairnryan to Ayr (no idea who runs this but on the outbound journey yesterday it ran more or less to time and had a total of 4 passengers myself included)
15:45 - 16:36 train Ayr to Glasgow Central (Scotrail 2K18 AYR-GLC)
17:03 - 19:22 train Glasgow Central to Lancaster (TPE 1M92 GLC-MIA)
20:04 - 21:05 train Lancaster to Barrow (Northern 1C58 MIA-BIF)

Let's see where I end up getting stranded overnight!

Good luck. Probably simpler to go on the connecting Citylink coach to Glasgow - probably quicker and removes one element of risk. Once you know the ferry is running probably cheaper to buy an online ticket rather than pay the driver. Though if you've already bought the RailSail then the above won't apply - see what the trains are doing, even if it's a bus replacement?

 

[Harpo]

So, some charter trains managed to complete the majority of their itineraries through the affected areas yesterday while public services were suspended or reduced for safety and welfare reasons.

Maybe it’s not the operators of the public services that this reflects so badly on?

 

[RJ]

The last Pompey - Cardiff train is running circa 2 hours late due to a large tree blocking the line in the Salisbury area.

Currently due to arrive into Cardiff Central at 01:50. At least there’s plenty of capacity though, being a 7 car, all class 158, formation.

Realtime Trains | 1F34 2023 Portsmouth Harbour to Bristol Temple Meads | 23/11/2024

Real-time train running information for 1F34 2023 departure from Portsmouth Harbour to Bristol Temple Meads on 23/11/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

I would have said the chances of all, or any of that train going beyond Temple Meads were pretty slim, shorter trains than that have carriages nicked to cover other services during disruption!

 

[GLC]

One nice thing about the disruption last night in Scotland was, my Edinburgh to Glasgow train ran nonstop, which I imagine isn’t done particularly often https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:P78976/2024-11-23/detailed#allox_id=0

Made up 15 minutes on a normally 50 minute run!

 

[jayah]

Looks like a tree down at Seer Green has caused chaos for the late evening trains on the Chiltern line.
Last two Birmingham trains shown as terminated at Banbury (as well as the last XC to New St) and the last three Marylebone-Banbury trains cancelled throughout.

Suspect the local taxi drivers are going to be doing nicely tonight!
May also mean stock and crews out of place for tomorrow.

The line through there is a dense wall of trees. On one road overbridge there are trees growing out of the kerb.

Extreme failure to manage vegetation rather than extreme weather!

 

[Steveswan10]

No trains between Hereford and Newport, flooding somewhere between the two

 

[jayah]

One nice thing about the disruption last night in Scotland was, my Edinburgh to Glasgow train ran nonstop, which I imagine isn’t done particularly often https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:P78976/2024-11-23/detailed#allox_id=0

Made up 15 minutes on a normally 50 minute run!

I make that 41min for a 54min run.

Back in 1971/72 they seem to have run a 43min schedule with a Haymarket stop using Class 27s although both track and locos were being thrashed beyond their limits by the sounds of it.

Nick Lawford 1970s ED-GL push pull services

 

[harz99]

In amongst all the chatter about WCML yesterday, something that happened in the Doncaster area of ECML in the morning around 1015/1030 on the southbound caused several trains to be delayed by 60 minutes or more.

Anybody know whether this was down to the storm or something else?

 

[renegademaster]

As usual , 3rd rail land escapes any substantial disruption as it's electricfaction system doesn't get disabled by an errant twig

 

[driver9000]

So, some charter trains managed to complete the majority of their itineraries through the affected areas yesterday while public services were suspended or reduced for safety and welfare reasons.

Maybe it’s not the operators of the public services that this reflects so badly on?

Charter crews aren't expected to work multiple services a day so aren't as likely to cause mayhem if they are delayed or their inward working is cancelled.

The 86 hauled charter on the West Coast ran with delays due to blanket speed restrictions and was lucky to avoid the line closure caused by flooding between Lancaster and Tebay. The line reopened by the time it was coming back into the area but it could also have easily got stranded if the line had remained closed.

 

[Dave W]

Bit of a farce at Ipswich yesterday - inbound train from Cambridge cancelled so a hastily conjured replacement was sent from Colchester, leaving 20 late as it followed a liner into Ipswich. We'd only got as far as Needham Market when the guard came on to tell us a tree had blocked the line so the train would terminate at Stowmarket. I had a lunch reservation in Bury at 1215 so it was taxis all round... If the train had been on time perhaps we might have got through!

All that said, apart from a squall in the afternoon it didn't feel all that windy. It's certainly a lot breezier this morning back in North London.

 

[JamesT]

As usual , 3rd rail land escapes any substantial disruption as it's electricfaction system doesn't get disabled by an errant twig

Merseyrail trains cancelled after Storm Bert flooding

People face disruption on the network this morning

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk

Merseyrail has confirmed it has cancelled trains on one of the its lines after Storm Bert caused flooding in the region. The operator announced on the evening of Saturday, November 23, it would more than likely be forced to operate rail replacement buses between Hooton and Chester due to the weather overnight.

There are also third rail lines in the South blocked by fallen trees.

As we’ve seen in previous cold snaps, third rail is not immune to the weather.

 

[bradleyd]

Seems like all trains on the TAM (treherbert aberdare Merthyr) lines have been cancelled. Was aiming to get the first train if the day from pontyoridd to Cardiff (8:42) was cancelled from treherbert, then was sat on the 9:20 when the guard said it was cancelled because of flooding between trefforest and taffs well - not a surprise seeing all the flooding not by the tracks

 

[55002]

Ridiculously windy down south in Herts, surprised no ohl damage or speed restrictions on southern ECML

 

[185143]

Bit of a farce at Ipswich yesterday - inbound train from Cambridge cancelled so a hastily conjured replacement was sent from Colchester, leaving 20 late as it followed a liner into Ipswich. We'd only got as far as Needham Market when the guard came on to tell us a tree had blocked the line so the train would terminate at Stowmarket. I had a lunch reservation in Bury at 1215 so it was taxis all round... If the train had been on time perhaps we might have got through!

All that said, apart from a squall in the afternoon it didn't feel all that windy. It's certainly a lot breezier this morning back in North London.

Or it may have come down directly ahead of your train, you'd hit it and been stuck for hours. You just never know!

 

[Dave W]

Or it may have come down directly ahead of your train, you'd hit it and been stuck for hours. You just never know!

Quite right

 

[paulmch]

I agree. Severe weather has also become increasingly common with the changing global climate.

I suspect the Venn diagram of people who whinge about weather related cancellations Vs those who think climate change is a hoax is an almost perfect circle!