Stored 508 update

[50047]

An update on 508s at Eastleigh

Vehicle 64692 of set 508201 is in the process of disposal

Vehicles 64649 of 508201 and 64712 of 508209 are being prepared for movement on 17/04 to Southampton Docks, and then a new home in the North. GBRf will carry out the rail movement

Vehicles 64664 and 64707 of 508207 are designated for a developing project. A further three vehicles are also being kept to support this

All the remaining vehicles face an uncertain future but are not yet for the scrap heap

 

[61653 HTAFC]

An update on 508s at Eastleigh

Vehicle 64692 of set 508201 is in the process of disposal

Vehicles 64649 of 508201 and 64712 of 508209 are being prepared for movement on 17/04 to Southampton Docks, and then a new home in the North. GBRf will carry out the rail movement

Vehicles 64664 and 64707 of 508207 are designated for a developing project. A further three vehicles are also being kept to support this

All the remaining vehicles face an uncertain future but are not yet for the scrap heap

Presumably being used to boost capacity on Merseyrail then? I hope they'll be refurbed to the same standard as the current 507/508 fleet, though if they'll only be used for another 6-10 years is it worth it? Can't see any other viable use in the North unless it's a non-rail thing.

 

[anthony263]

Seems to be some reports in certain railway magazines that TFL were looking at some of the class 508's.

 

[WatcherZero]

I thought Merseyrail had a lot of spare units anyway as they had far more than they needed to form regular services already? Didnt someone say because they hadnt been getting regular use and maintenence some of the Merseyrail units had deteriorated a bit?

 

[Bevan Price]

Presumably being used to boost capacity on Merseyrail then? I hope they'll be refurbed to the same standard as the current 507/508 fleet, though if they'll only be used for another 6-10 years is it worth it? Can't see any other viable use in the North unless it's a non-rail thing.

Two 508 sets were towed to Warrington for inspection a couple of years ago, but Merseyrail (or Merseytravel) apparently decided it would be too expensive to restore them to Merseyrail standard.

 

[50047]

Two 508 sets were towed to Warrington for inspection a couple of years ago, but Merseyrail (or Merseytravel) apparently decided it would be too expensive to restore them to Merseyrail standard.

That isn't completely correct. Two sets were moved to Warrington as a deal for their lease was about to be concluded. That fell through shortly after. There was some debate and whilst this was taking place the units remained there. They were then returned to Eastleigh. The units in question were for an alternative use by Merseyrail and after that, potential upgrade to the same standard as their existing fleet. Their condition was known long before they departed Eastleigh

 

[The Ham]

All the remaining vehicles face an uncertain future but are not yet for the scrap heap

Why not move a few of them along the south coast to run the Lymington Line services?

A three coach version's track access charges would cost 14.23ppm compared with 12.14ppm for a 2 coach 158 and 34.88ppm for a four coach 450. Which means that the track access charges for the service would remain fairly low whilst freeing up a class 158 for use elsewhere.

I would have also thought that, depending on the level of the refurbishment (which probably wouldn't have to be overly extensive for such a sort line), that the lease costs wouldn't be too expensive (given that there are only sat in store otherwise).

Also SWT's needn't have anyone who can maintain them as they can just call Eastleigh.

 

[MCR247]

The 508s and Lymington discussion has been had many times

 

[swt_passenger]

The 508s and Lymington discussion has been had many times

Well yes, but he must get additional marks for the off the wall suggestion that they could just be maintained at Eastleigh... :roll:

 

[455driver]

Why not move a few of them along the south coast to run the Lymington Line services?

That one has been done to death a dozen times! :roll:

whilst freeing up a class 158 for use elsewhere.

SWT have spare 158s anyway so it would just sit in a siding costing money, it was because they have spare 158s that they were put to use on the Lymie in the first place.

Also SWT's needn't have anyone who can maintain them as they can just call Eastleigh.

Thats original, I am sure there are loads of fitters at Eastleigh (all trained up on the 508s) just sitting there waiting for something to do!

 

[BlythPower]

Putting aside the Lymington froth :roll:, have we any hard facts on whether or not LO are interested in the 508s? :-? A thread on the WNXX forum would appear to suggest otherwise... :cry:

 

[tbtc]

have we any hard facts on whether or not LO are interested in the 508s?

For which route?

 

[anthony263]

For which route?

Most likely for the Euston - Watford Junction route since the 508's are 3rd rail only.

 

[Manchester77]

Why would LO want trains that they'd already replaced with new modern trains?

 

[455driver]

Most likely for the Euston - Watford Junction route since the 508's are 3rd rail only.

Are Looroll short of stock at the moment?
I thought they had plenty.

 

[anthony263]

They can use them anywhere the 378/1s go including Clapham jn to Highbury.

Are LoOroll short of stock at the moment?
I thought they had plenty.

They have enough units but passenger numbers are increasing rapidly although it doesnt seem to be as bad on the Euston - Watford route.

LO might be planning to use the class 508's on the Euston - Watford route to allow some of the class 378's to be used to provide additional services on other routes.

If this is true then it might be a good idea that will allow LO to cope with rising passenge numbers until they get additional class 378's and additional carriages for the existing fleet.

 

[The Ham]

Why would LO want trains that they'd already replaced with new modern trains?

..and which they are lengthening to 5 coaches over the next few years (ELL 2014 with the rest following during the next year) and possibly gaining two further sets:

http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/...on-overground-train-lengthening-approved.html

A £320m programme of rolling stock procurement and infrastructure works to extend London Overground's 57 Class 378 electric multiple-units from four to five cars was approved by the Transport for London board on February 6.

TfL is negotiating with Class 378 Capitalstar EMU manufacturer Bombardier Transportation and QW Leasing for the supply of the additional cars, which would be leased until 2027. The European Investment Bank may part-finance the order.

TfL hopes to place a firm contract shortly, with a view to providing five-car services on the East London Line by December 2014 and on the routes in north London the following year.

The parties are also discussing a price for a further two EMUs, which would enable an increase in frequencies on the ELL.

 

[Chris125]

If this is true then it might be a good idea that will allow LO to cope with rising passenge numbers until they get additional class 378's and additional carriages for the existing fleet.

I think it's highly unlikely, TfL have to examine other options but adding some complete units to the 50-odd vehicles being used to extend the existing fleet seems the obvious answer.

Even if a mini-fleet of 508's could be justified on financial grounds, which is questionable, it would be politically unacceptable - as i posted on wnxx, just because a refurbishment can give the impression of a new train does not mean passengers will be fooled after several years of air-conditioned walk-through carriages.

As recent experience of the Coastway 313's and Wimbledon Loop shows, any perceived or actual downgrading of a service will be seized on by politicians and the press while their use on Watford services to displace newer trains elsewhere plays into the hands of those arguing against Mayoral control of suburban rail services.

Chris

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Not the most reliable of trains - even when "Silverlink" had 3 of them - around 5,000 miles per casulty , about 3 times worse than more modern stock. Not the best answer for a busy railway.

 

[colchesterken]

I think the thing to do with them is to refurb and run on the Brighton coastway services
I am sure the 315 s with their dual voltage could be put to better use
I can think of several services up here that could use them:- Colchester-Walton,Manningtree-Harwich,Southminster-Shenfield, people could change there for main line to london.that would save using 100 mph class 321s on local branch line services..Or even the Enfield services that use 100mph 317s on a service that does not exceed about 50 mph

 

[David Goddard]

I think the thing to do with them is to refurb and run on the Brighton coastway services
I am sure the 315 s with their dual voltage could be put to better use
I can think of several services up here that could use them:- Colchester-Walton,Manningtree-Harwich,Southminster-Shenfield, people could change there for main line to london.that would save using 100 mph class 321s on local branch line services..Or even the Enfield services that use 100mph 317s on a service that does not exceed about 50 mph

Fully agree. They got a refurb when moved to Southeastern, but then got dumped out of the way when no longer needed, only for Southern to then have a need for stock and received the 313s (not 315s) released by LOROL, which would have been more gainfully used if sent to Hornsey (who know them well) and used on North of river services such as FCC, WA and GE inners, alongside their AC only Cl315 cousins.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

SWT have spare 158s anyway so it would just sit in a siding costing money, it was because they have spare 158s that they were put to use on the Lymie in the first place.

Apologies for sounding like a broken record but I think this is why people are so strong on the idea of releasing said 158 from SWT- If they have more than they need and aren't using them, then to be quite honest they can do without. If they had 2 or 3 508s to replace a couple of the 158s from their fleet, those 158s would be far more appreciated at Northern or EMT.

 

[David Goddard]

If they had 2 or 3 508s to replace a couple of the 158s from their fleet, those 158s would be far more appreciated at Northern or EMT.

Or more locally with FGW between Bristol and Portsmouth/Weymouth

 

[RichmondCommu]

Seems to be some reports in certain railway magazines that TFL were looking at some of the class 508's.

I think you may have been the victim of a April Fool?

 

[Eagle]

If they had 2 or 3 508s...

...then that would probably be the worst example of a microfleet in the country.

 

[David Goddard]

Arent they now planning to send a couple of the 456s down there when they get transferred in from Southern?

 

[Manchester77]

My understanding was that they were to be used to form 10 coached services with the 455s in 455+455+456

 

[Eagle]

Arent they now planning to send a couple of the 456s down there when they get transferred in from Southern?

456s will be based at Wimbledon, not Bournemouth or Salisbury.

 

[David Goddard]

OK fair enough. Reading so many magazines it can be difficult to remember what one has read as fact and what one has read as speculation at times.
I just recall mention of them involving the Lymington line, and the Bagshot off peaks but that must have been rumour.

 

[Lrd]

or Salisbury.

Good luck getting a 456 to Salisbury!