Stobart rail vs truck

[GB]

You will probaby find its more to do with pathing rather than specifically crew change. A crew change by its self is usually only allocated two minutes at an intermediate point.

 

[rail-britain]

Why on earth would a short train journey like that require any crew changes, let alone two?

The same as affected the HGV driver, driving hours
The train driver does not stay with the train, so typically drives it for about 4 hours
As a result this "short" journey has 3 drivers

 

[GearJammer]

What amuses me is that the whole show looks to dramatise a pretty normal logistics business. Compare to Ice Road Truckers where the drivers there really do risk life and limb to take supplies to remote arctic locations over ice covered mountain passes:

ICE ROAD TRUCKERS:
"Jack is taking a load of 10,000 gallons of highly flammable fuel for 400 miles over the Dalton Highway for the residents of Deadhorse, or they'll lose power. The visibility is near zero, it's dark and he feels the rig slide towards the edge..."

STOBART:
"Mary has a load of cream cakes she must delivery from Rugby to Newbury- a distance of nearly 100 miles. If she fails, the people of Newbury won't have anything to go with afternoon tea tomorrow"

Lmfao, well put TGV, but no seriously i thought exactly the same thing compareing Ice Road Truckers with Eddie Stobart (incidently ive met 2 of the stars from Ice Road Truckers, Rick Yemm & Alex Deborgorski) but the progres show Stobarts operations well, evedoes over dramatise them a bit!

I don't think the race between the truck and the train was that serious in the first place, it was just done to show that Stobarts do run trains, it was said on the show that the reason the truck was making the run was to take what the train could'nt carry do to it being full to capacity!

I do agree with people about the crew changes tho, if this is (and we all know it is) a regular job then why are three train drivers rostered? Why not plan one driver to take the train up and one back? I think rail needs to take a long hard look at itself if it really wants to compete with road haulage!

As for stobart naming their locos then yes they do, but not to the same care that they name their trucks, we've had 'Eddie the Engine' 'James the Engine' (i half expected that one to be bright red and have a face on the front) 'Bart the Engine' and the name of the DB Schenker one that crashed escapes me!

Just out of interest did anyone else notice how the train left Rugby with DBS 92017, arrived at Mossend with 92017 but all the ariel shots of it on route were of DRS's 66411? :P

 

[jon0844]

We all know TV lies. I went to the filming of the first Have I Got News For You two weeks ago, and they edited out some of what was filmed then and used it in the second week - with a different presenter having re-recorded the exact same words!

Still, most people won't notice such things.

 

[CosherB]

The same as affected the HGV driver, driving hours
The train driver does not stay with the train, so typically drives it for about 4 hours
As a result this "short" journey has 3 drivers

4 hours is a ridiculously short driving turn. If rail is to compete with road 'old time' cushy practices like that need to be got rid of.

Also, 3 driver changes indicates journey time of 12 hours - the train should be able to do it 4 hours at most I'd have thought, then the same driver can do the return run as well all in one working day. That's the level of productivity road transport expects; why should rail be different?

 

[rail-britain]

4 hours is a ridiculously short driving turn. If rail is to compete with road 'old time' cushy practices like that need to be got rid of

Try passing that to the unions, they will give you a 4 hour speel about why drivers can only drive for up to 4 hours
The hint being "refreshement / comfort break"
There are however some rare exceptions for passenger trains, but most of these are double crews in many cases with a brief stop (Preston - Euston, York - Kings Cross)

I personally couldn't drive a train continuously for more than 4 hours, it's hard enough driving a car, PCV, or HGV for that long

 

[driver9000]

4 hours is a ridiculously short driving turn. If rail is to compete with road 'old time' cushy practices like that need to be got rid of.

How do you know the driver didn't then work another 4 hour trip after his break making it 8hrs?

HGV drivers are legally required to stop for rest after driving for 4hr30. Their total maximum driving day is 9 hours although this can be extended to 10 hours twice a week. Upon reaching the limit their break must be at least 45 minutes. All this is recorded on a tachograph.

Train drivers are subject to very similar regulations as for HGV drivers. My employer has a 5 hour maximum driving period before a 30 minute break is required and my maximum working day is 10 hours. I regularly drive a train for 4hrs in one sitting and can often drive a train for 8hrs in a single turn of duty with a break after 4hrs.

 

[LE Greys]

Try passing that to the unions, they will give you a 4 hour speel about why drivers can only drive for up to 4 hours
The hint being "refreshement / comfort break"
There are however some rare exceptions for passenger trains, but most of these are double crews in many cases with a brief stop (Preston - Euston, York - Kings Cross)

I personally couldn't drive a train continuously for more than 4 hours, it's hard enough driving a car, PCV, or HGV for that long

Imagine working the Mid-Day Scot. One crew had to work right through from London to Glasgow, with a Duchess hauling up to fifteen coaches. That might mean a fireman shifting eight to ten tons of coal in seven hours (although the coal-pusher did help) and would have to take on Beattock during hour six. Of course, it was always a lodging turn, and presumably the crew got an easier duty on the way back. At least the LNER introduced corridor tenders.

 

[The Planner]

You will probaby find its more to do with pathing rather than specifically crew change. A crew change by its self is usually only allocated two minutes at an intermediate point.

Which is my point, your average C stop in a schedule is 2 minutes, battering the schedule for an hour at a go seems odd to me.

 

[CosherB]

I personally couldn't drive a train continuously for more than 4 hours, it's hard enough driving a car, PCV, or HGV for that long

Oh come on! I often used to drive 4 hours starting 5 in the morning for a meeting in the South East of England, in peak time M6, M42, M40 traffic, work a full intensive day, then drive 4 hours home! Lots of people do this all the time, far more frequently than I had to do it. Those unions need to wake up and smell the coffee before they kill railfreight completely! Or maybe that's their aim?

 

[rail-britain]

Oh come on! I often used to drive 4 hours starting 5 in the morning then drive 4 hours home

Please see my original text :
I personally couldn't drive a train continuously for more than 4 hours

I quite often drive for between 10 and 18 hours per day, but again split into chunks of about 4 hours with 15 minute breaks
I used to drive from Aberdeen to Milton Keynes once a week; Aberdeen - Carlisle / Carlisle - Stafford / Stafford - Rugby / Rugby - Milton Keynes, and then back to Aberdeen

 

[GB]

Those unions need to wake up and smell the coffee before they kill railfreight completely!

Why is that then? Driver9000 has already pointed out that the road haulage industry has similar rules and restraints to railfreight regarding drivers hours, so I'm not sure what your point is.

On another note, if railfreight was given just a slight amount of the priority passenger services seem to get then railfreight times could be slashed.

 

[jon0844]

Is the speed that important for moving goods all the time?

I would have thought that price would be more of a factor in many cases, as well as the ability to move more goods in one go.

Sure, Tesco must restock stores quickly, but other businesses can plan a little further in advance to move components, or distribute stock around the country which then enables the lorries to do the short-notice pick-ups.

 

[CosherB]

Why is that then? Driver9000 has already pointed out that the road haulage industry has similar rules and restraints to railfreight regarding drivers hours, so I'm not sure what your point is.

Come on, do keep up! Road has similar driving rules to rail? I think not. Any road haulier that only let its drivers do 4 hour stints would be out of business pronto! THAT is my point!

 

[GB]

So you are saying that road hauliers do not adhere to the legal driving hours limit and you think railfreight should be the same?

 

[driver9000]

Come on, do keep up! Road has similar driving rules to rail? I think not. Any road haulier that only let its drivers do 4 hour stints would be out of business pronto! THAT is my point!

I fear it is you who needs to "keep up". HGV drivers are limited to 4 hours 30 minutes driving before a break as I said, all recorded on Tachographs.

http://www.tachotutorial.com/Drivers_Hours.asp

I also refer you to VOSA document GV262. http://www.tachotutorial.com/Publications/GV262 Jan 2008.pdf

All drivers are required to keep hold of their used tachographs (one for each day) for 7 days and have it with them on duty, and be able to produce it on demand. After this period it is handed in to his employer who send it off to VOSA for verification. Any driver who is caught fiddling his hours on the Tachograph (it was quite easy to do on the old disc recorder) can be punished by dismissal, £2500 fine or loss of licence. Fiddling of hours on the new digital recording Tachograph is much harder.

 

[GearJammer]

All drivers are required to keep hold of their used tachographs (one for each day) for 7 days and have it with them on duty, and be able to produce it on demand. After this period it is handed in to his employer who send it off to VOSA for verification.

Not quite right, drivers have to produce on demand the current days tacho's (or digi-card) and the previous 28 days worth of records, then there handed in!

Theres nothing to say i have to drive 4.5 hours before a break, i can for arguments sake drive 3 hours, then have a 45 minute break then do another 3 hours, do another 45 minute break then drive another 3 or 4 hours driving depending on wether i want to do a 9 or 10 hour day.
I can work a maximum of 15 hours a day providing no more than 9 or 10 hours of that is driving, siting on a loading bay or doing daily checks counts as 'other work' and does not go towards the driving time!

 

[driver9000]

Thanks for clearing up my post Gearjammer, it's been a while since I drove commercial road vehicles so my memory on retaining Tachos is a little rusty. No idea where I got 7 days from!

Of course there is nothing to stop you driving the way you stated, indeed I did turns like that. I was attempting to show that the maximum in one continuous driving stretch without rest is 4hr30 as in the VOSA documents and EC rules and the similarity to railway driving times.

 

[Soft Mick]

Stop bickering kids.
there's absolutely no comparison between pulling freight on HGVs and on trains.
We have too many passenger trains, junctions, not enough road/rail hubs etc.
Other countries may provide a better set of even conditions, but never Britain.
:roll: