Stations with short platforms that aren't

[43066]

Elephant and castle P1 is another example.

An 8 car platform, only the front 7 coaches open in a 700 (465s stopping at the same platform open all 8).

 

[Backroom_boy]

Yes platform 2 at tulse is 'too short' for 8 car thameslink trains but only because they stop a car length away from the existing DOO platform monitors for some reason (btw do they have in cab monitors?)

 

[PennineSuperb]

Also it could be due to signal sighting risks. More modern trains have lots of plastic pillars to the left/right of the driving position. Signal sighting from a 68 cab is 20m from the signal.

 

[43066]

Yes platform 2 at tulse is 'too short' for 8 car thameslink trains but only because they stop a car length away from the existing DOO platform monitors for some reason (btw do they have in cab monitors?)

They do indeed.

Also it could be due to signal sighting risks. More modern trains have lots of plastic pillars to the left/right of the driving position. Signal sighting from a 68 cab is 20m from the signal.

It’s because the rear portion of the platform is deemed too narrow for passenger use (at Elephant).

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Going back to the ASDO on 185s, at Huddersfield last night the stopper from Leeds I was on (the 2020 arrival from Leeds) was diverted into P6 due to the booked P4 being occupied by a Northern unit. The guard announced that those in the rear carriage should move forward as the doors wouldn't open in the rear "because of where the sensors are".

I could have sworn I'd seen and caught 185s in that platform fairly recently, so is this a later update to the system or have I just missed it since the system went live?

 

[DorkingMain]

Going back to the ASDO on 185s, at Huddersfield last night the stopper from Leeds I was on (the 2020 arrival from Leeds) was diverted into P6 due to the booked P4 being occupied by a Northern unit. The guard announced that those in the rear carriage should move forward as the doors wouldn't open in the rear "because of where the sensors are".

I could have sworn I'd seen and caught 185s in that platform fairly recently, so is this a later update to the system or have I just missed it since the system went live?

It may depend on the ASDO system in use. Newer ASDO systems will send a signal to the train telling it the correct number of coaches to release. However older systems would count the number of coaches that passed over, and release the doors of each coach that passed over the beacon. If the beacon is too close to the platform end, it may mean that the coach doesn't fully register as having passed over the beacon and so won't release.

 

[Crossover]

That is also another good example, these train sets don't use all the platform as the Scarbrough end of the platform has a drop in height which is too great for passenger use. However the step height is different on 2 X 185's meaning it is safe for passenger use with some mitigation, i.e mind the step announcements.

Another thought as an "extension" to the Malton situation, is Seamer. I don't think it can accommodate all of a Nova 3 set, possibly depending on the orientation of the set? I seem to recall the back carriage was off the platform Scarborough bound with the loco leading (it can't go beyond the signal as it would then be blocking the crossing) and the DT was slightly off. Whereas if the DT had been leading, it may have been fully platformed?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

It may depend on the ASDO system in use. Newer ASDO systems will send a signal to the train telling it the correct number of coaches to release. However older systems would count the number of coaches that passed over, and release the doors of each coach that passed over the beacon. If the beacon is too close to the platform end, it may mean that the coach doesn't fully register as having passed over the beacon and so won't release.

Cheers. Though that might suggest that the system chosen by TPE is not the most up-to-date, which considering it was only rolled out in the last 12 months or so seems odd. That said under the proposed upgrade Platform 6 will be removed, and the TPE stopper doesn't use it in normal circumstances anyway so it isn't a big deal really. Even under social distancing, only myself and two others were in the rear coach anyway so it wasn't a big deal to move to a similarly loaded middle car.

 

[DorkingMain]

I may be totally wrong and it may just be a case of the ASDO beacon being conservatively programmed. A lot of the stations in this thread are stations where the last coach of the last accommodated door is very tight and so the TOC has taken the risk not to put that coach as accommodated. Clapham Junction has a few platforms like that, particularly on the SWR side

 

[PennineSuperb]

Another thought as an "extension" to the Malton situation, is Seamer. I don't think it can accommodate all of a Nova 3 set, possibly depending on the orientation of the set? I seem to recall the back carriage was off the platform Scarborough bound with the loco leading (it can't go beyond the signal as it would then be blocking the crossing) and the DT was slightly off. Whereas if the DT had been leading, it may have been fully platformed?

Correct, Locomotive Leading (to Scarbrough) and the rear coach and a half off. Locomotive trailing all the train fits (except the crew doors).

 

[yorkie]

I've been on a 222 that stopped at Longport (due to the Midland Grand National at Uttoxeter), where it was announced that doors to the rear coach (that I was sitting in) wouldn't be opened. I've no idea why, as the whole of the train was in the platform.

The same happens on Northern at Micklefield. My last Guard said something like "Ignore the announcement, the train fits fine"

 

[Fokx]

Going back to the ASDO on 185s, at Huddersfield last night the stopper from Leeds I was on (the 2020 arrival from Leeds) was diverted into P6 due to the booked P4 being occupied by a Northern unit. The guard announced that those in the rear carriage should move forward as the doors wouldn't open in the rear "because of where the sensors are".

I could have sworn I'd seen and caught 185s in that platform fairly recently, so is this a later update to the system or have I just missed it since the system went live?

It all depends on what way round your train is, the position of the sensor that reads the beacon is in a different place on the 51xxx car to the 54xxx car due to the toilet retention tank position. At certain stations if your first class is at the rear, you can release all doors on the train, However if your train is the other way round it may only release the first two as the last carriage hasn’t passed the beacon for example.

You’ll notice this happen a lot on the 6 car stoppers. Some 4 car stations will actually open 5 car doors, but only if the two 185’s are facing a certain way.

 

[ijmad]

Elephant and castle P1 is another example.

An 8 car platform, only the front 7 coaches open in a 700 (465s stopping at the same platform open all 8).

The 319s used to regularly open their rear doors anyway, with us passengers treated to "DO NOT ALIGHT HERE" signs.

 

[Metal_gee_man]

The best one is when SE run some 12 car trains into London Victoria, I regularly caught a 12 car that upon arrival to VIC stated the rear 2 carriages wouldn't open, knowing the train and the service I knew this was a load of bulls*#t and called them out on twitter for it because the doors did in fact open because the platforms 2,3&4 are long enough for 12 cars and they said we regularly have to switch platforms and prepare for the worst case scenario, to which I said the Dover Priory services always run from P2 so why bother...

 

[ComUtoR]

because the platforms 2,3&4 are long enough for 12 cars

3&4 at Vic are 8

 

[Metal_gee_man]

3&4 at Vic are 8

My apologies 5&6, 3&4 comfortably take 8 car 465s with platform to spare

 

[ComUtoR]

My apologies 5&6

5&6 are 12 for 375/377s but 10 for Networkers

 

[Horizon22]

The 319s used to regularly open their rear doors anyway, with us passengers treated to "DO NOT ALIGHT HERE" signs.

Its always annoying out of sync with the rest of the train if you're in the 2nd from rear car there's a 1-2 sec delay in announcements. As others have alluded too, this is because of the very narrow platform at the end.

5&6 are 12 for 375/377s but 10 for Networkers

The same as Charing Cross, although of course that's an SDO operation as the platform is genuinely too small.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

It all depends on what way round your train is, the position of the sensor that reads the beacon is in a different place on the 51xxx car to the 54xxx car due to the toilet retention tank position. At certain stations if your first class is at the rear, you can release all doors on the train, However if your train is the other way round it may only release the first two as the last carriage hasn’t passed the beacon for example.

You’ll notice this happen a lot on the 6 car stoppers. Some 4 car stations will actually open 5 car doors, but only if the two 185’s are facing a certain way.

Sensors being in different places makes sense. However the first class carriage was at the rear (away from the buffers) on Monday.

 

[ijmad]

I could be misremembering, but when New Cross Gate still got 12 car stoppers on the fast platforms (Class 377s on the way to Horsham I think) they would announce you needed to be in the front 8 cars to alight, but usually you could get out of the 10th. Distinct memory of something like that anyway.

 

[DorkingMain]

I could be misremembering, but when New Cross Gate still got 12 car stoppers on the fast platforms (Class 377s on the way to Horsham I think) they would announce you needed to be in the front 8 cars to alight, but usually you could get out of the 10th. Distinct memory of something like that anyway.

The 10 cars on the up slow still do that. I think the PIS was never reprogrammed for the platform extension.

 

[AMD]

Just come home on the 15:56 from Gathurst to Southport, and the guard announced that only the rear doors would open at New Lane and Bescar Lane. Both platforms were recently extended to 4-car length (presumably for 769's?) , and sitting in the front car of 4 I thought we were in the platform at New Lane certainly; at Bescar Lane I didn't notice.

Bescar Lane hasn't been extended so it's still only rear door for units in multiple, New Lane has been extended so this sounds like someone who hasn't read their notices.

Another station in this topic is Dalton - the down platform is long enough however the method of work is local door only - due to the height difference and the cant at the location the stepping distance is really bad, so the stopping location is the local door on the harrington hump.

 

[vlad]

The same happens on Northern at Micklefield. My last Guard said something like "Ignore the announcement, the train fits fine"

In my case it was the guard who announced that the doors in the rear coach wouldn't be opening - and they didn't, which confused the people on the platform no end!

 

[S&CLER]

Bescar Lane hasn't been extended so it's still only rear door for units in multiple, New Lane has been extended so this sounds like someone who hasn't read their notices.

Another station in this topic is Dalton - the down platform is long enough however the method of work is local door only - due to the height difference and the cant at the location the stepping distance is really bad, so the stopping location is the local door on the harrington hump.

The conductor on the same train this afternoon had read her notice and got it right, announcing the short platform at Bescar Lane only. On the other hand, the announcement "Attention conductor, call for aid activated" was repeated about 8 times between Bescar Lane and Southport. I didn't find out what it was all about; I hope it wasn't someone who had wanted to get off at Bescar Lane and missed the earlier announcement.

 

[ScottGallagher]

I've noticed the same thing at Dalton on the Furness Line. A 185 or 195 can only open one set of doors in the middle coach on the Barrow side (announcement gets made) No such issue with a 156 or back in the day a pacer.

 

[chefchenko]

Loughborough used to be like that didn’t it, platforms extend beyond that narrow bridge but out of bounds , all changed now of course with the extensions on the other ends