Station pilots

[Kevin51]

I was thinking about some other point of station operations which got me thinking there are no longer station pilots. So when was the last station pilot in London or any where else come to that?

 

[SargeNpton]

I was thinking about some other point of station operations which got me thinking there are no longer station pilots. So when was the last station pilot in London or any where else come to that?

Probably the only routine "station pilot" duty these days are for the Sleepers. Where, on arrival, a loco is used to take the stock into the sidings and allow the Sleeper's loco to be released from the stops.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Probably the only routine "station pilot" duty these days are for the Sleepers. Where, on arrival, a loco is used to take the stock into the sidings and allow the Sleeper's loco to be released from the stops.

Does that happen anywhere? ECS at Euston, Glasgiw, Edinburgh and Paddington is brought in by a mainline loco (92 or 57), and at other locations I've observed it is propelled to and from the sidings by the loco(s) that brought it in or will take it out.

 

[DarloRich]

do you mean with an 08 shunter?

 

[LowLevel]

Does that happen anywhere? ECS at Euston, Glasgiw, Edinburgh and Paddington is brought in by a mainline loco (92 or 57), and at other locations I've observed it is propelled to and from the sidings by the loco(s) that brought it in or will take it out.

On occasion the 08 comes out to Penzance to haul the sleeper out.

 

[45Fox]

On occasion the 08 comes out to Penzance to haul the sleeper out.

I was wondering if there was still one at Penzance.

 

[norbitonflyer]

I was wondering if there was still one at Penzance.

There is, but it seems to be mainly used for shunting carriages aroud within Long Rick depot.

 

[zwk500]

How long did Brighton retain a pilot for? Did it last beyond privatisation to the end of the loco-hauled services or did it get pulled before that?

 

[D1537]

I'm going to guess that the end of loco-hauled parcels operations was the death-knell for many pilots.

 

[Harpo]

It depends how you define station pilot. I’m guessing the OP means a loco that only works at that place and its sidings, such as the Penzance example?

 

[dk1]

Yarmouth Vauxhall lost its 03 pilot quite early on in late 1982 with the opening of Crown Point Depot.

 

[MarlowDonkey]

I was thinking about some other point of station operations which got me thinking there are no longer station pilots. So when was the last station pilot in London or any where else come to that?

The introduction of DVTs and the replacement of hauled stock by units would eliminate the need for even residual use of pilots. At somewhere like Paddington which still had hauled stock into the NSE era, I think trains were serviced if necessary in the platforms, so another locomotive took the train away for the next departure and released the incoming loco.

 

[Bill57p9]

Does that happen anywhere? ECS at Euston, Glasgiw, Edinburgh and Paddington is brought in by a mainline loco (92 or 57), and at other locations I've observed it is propelled to and from the sidings by the loco(s) that brought it in or will take it out.

Caledonian Sleeper drag empty stock in to and out of Euston and Glasgow using a 92 that will not travel with the train, which is the closest I can think of to a traditional pilot these days.
The northbound highlander is top and tailed into Euston where the leading 92 is detached. Once released it shunts out and onto the north end of the northbound Lowlander. Once the northbound lowlander departs, the released empty stock loco is shunted out and becomes the ECS loco for the southbound lowlander.

Something similar happens in Glasgow.

At Edinburgh a through platform and single loco run round is used.

The Night Riviera is usually top & tailed between Reading and Paddington.

I believe that in all other UK sleeper locations propelling is used.

 

[High Dyke]

Grantham lost its steam loco station pilot duties when the loco depot closed in 1963. However, a diesel was outstationed here, usually from Lincoln during the 1970s, but that eventually ceased. It did retain a pick-up freight / loco move into the 1980s though.

 

[8ace]

How long did Brighton retain a pilot for? Did it last beyond privatisation to the end of the loco-hauled services or did it get pulled before that?

There was an 09 at Lovers Walk for many years after privatisation but probably not seen it for at least 10 years. How much (if at all) it ventured south on pilot duties I don't know.

 

[6Gman]

Surely, a station pilot is a loco which spends a period of several hours at a station to do anything that needs such a loco to do it?

This would involve shunting parcels vans, adding/removing vehicles from trains, shunting from platform to platform.

Nowhere requires that sort of work today.

And hasn't for quite a while I would think.

 

[Electrostar387]

There was an 09 at Lovers Walk for many years after privatisation but probably not seen it for at least 10 years. How much (if at all) it ventured south on pilot duties I don't know.

If it’s the one I’m thinking of, it was called Cedric. Ended up going to a heritage line around about 2015, so your estimate of about 10 years is correct!

 

[8ace]

If it’s the one I’m thinking of, it was called Cedric. Ended up going to a heritage line around about 2015, so your estimate of about 10 years is correct!

Lucky more like, my memory is usually terrible! What was the last livery it carried there - dark green or BR blue maybe? Cedric rings a bell, think it was named Cedric Wares - always thought it could be a joke on "where's Cedric" (no disrespect to the man himself whoever he was)

 

[Electrostar387]

Lucky more like, my memory is usually terrible! What was the last livery it carried there - dark green or BR blue maybe? Cedric rings a bell, think it was named Cedric Wares - always thought it could be a joke on "where's Cedric" (no disrespect to the man himself whoever he was)

Know the feeling sometimes…! Current raiding my memory for what it used to be in. Funny how you can see something so often but now can’t recall its final livery before heritage; I want to say it might have even made it into the Southern livery, but that could just be me mixing up with the 73 Southern liveried Thunderbird that regularly ended up in various corners of the network.

 

[Acathater]

When did Waterloo lose its 09 shunters? Did they last until the end of loco haulage or did they go before that?

 

[NXEA!]

For regular station pilot duties involving shunters, I’d wager Inverness in 2019 for the Caledonian Sleeper with the 08 taking the stock to/from the depot, but that changed with the Mark 5’s. Before that, Plymouth with the Plymouth portion of the Night Riviera which used an 08 to detach a single SLEP in the station up until 2006.

Other one which comes to mind is Brighton, plenty of shots of 09025/026 bolted to VXC Mark 2’s in the station on Flickr. This must have continued until 2002/03. I can’t think of any other regular booked station pilot work in the 21st century.

Ad-hoc wise, 08’s used to get into Paddington on OOC drag back work when FGW were short of 57’s, that stopped when OOC closed in 2017. Penzance has been mentioned up-thread, but that stopped a long while ago, the stock is propelled to/from Long Rock. Again, pre-COVID comes to mind. The other one is Norwich, plenty of shots on Flickr of 08847/871/874 venturing from Crown Point into Norwich to retrieve failed Mark 3 sets etc.

 

[Flange Squeal]

Know the feeling sometimes…! Current raiding my memory for what it used to be in. Funny how you can see something so often but now can’t recall its final livery before heritage; I want to say it might have even made it into the Southern livery, but that could just be me mixing up with the 73 Southern liveried Thunderbird that regularly ended up in various corners of the network.

09026. It was all over single shade of dark green rather than Southern livery, but did gain a small Southern logo on each side. It was previously named William Pearson and one of its duties was dragging the Virgin Cross Country Class 47 & Mk2 coaching stock rakes out of the station to release the loco, allowing that to run round to the London end and the 09 drag the formation back into Brighton. That regular duty obviously ended once the Voyagers came into being, with Brighton then removed from the Virgin Cross Country network altogether. Sister 09025 could also be seen performing the Virgin duties in its white and yellow Connex livery during the late 90s/early 00s.

 

[Harpo]

At somewhere like Paddington which still had hauled stock into the NSE era, I think trains were serviced if necessary in the platforms, so another locomotive took the train away for the next departure and released the incoming loco.

In the past, Paddington’s coach pilots were based at Old Oak Common with small ECS locos (e.g. 22s, 31s) called No 1 pilot etc.. There was often other main line work booked to them outside the peaks such as engineers trip work. Headcodes such as 0P01 appear in older photos.

OOCs 08 coach pilots were given letters such as ‘A pilot’. Their use at Paddington had been a last resort if a mainline loco wasn’t available, either on paper or on the day.

 

[Taunton]

In the past, Paddington’s coach pilots were based at Old Oak Common with small ECS locos (e.g. 22s, 31s) called No 1 pilot etc.. There was often other main line work booked to them outside the peaks such as engineers trip work. Headcodes such as 0P01 appear in older photos.

OOCs 08 coach pilots were given letters such as ‘A pilot’. Their use at Paddington had been a last resort if a mainline loco wasn’t available, either on paper or on the day.

Old Oak had long made use of main line locos to handle ECS to/from Paddington as well, back to steam days and indeed to "old" GWR, to save a light main line loco movement given shed and carriage sidings were adjacent. Only when there wasn't one going would a pilot loco be used. This accounts for the many photos of Paddington with main line steam locos against the buffers but facing outwards, with a train in front. They would haul the stock in, tender-first, then when it departed would move round to their intended main line departure. The opposite process for arrivals. Handled by the pilot link, who might have the kick of handling a King, albeit tender-first. The main line crew took over at Paddington.

 

[eastwestdivide]

Anyone got access to the early 1980s issues of "Shunter Duties"? Would be interesting to see how many pilot duties there were.

 

[TheHovisKid]

There is, but it seems to be mainly used for shunting carriages aroud within Long Rick depot.

Long Rick?
They're never gonna give that up!

 

[zwk500]

Caledonian Sleeper drag empty stock in to and out of Euston and Glasgow using a 92 that will not travel with the train, which is the closest I can think of to a traditional pilot these days.

That's just loco release operation, not station pilot. The closest to duties that would be handled by a station pilot today is the shunting of the highlander sets in Edinburgh, but again it's handled by the train locos not a dedicated pilot.

 

[Taunton]

Traditionally in steam days there were two types of station pilots, one for shunting stock, vans, and anything else around, and the other as a main line standby in case of need, which also got used for stock pilot etc in between.

Taunton west end long had two, one of each, the main line standby, fully coaled, most commonly being Hall 4932, Hatherton Hall, while the other, a pannier tank, was replaced in 1962 by a Class 08. Early diesel days meant the Hall had gone not infrequently gone somewhere, and been replaced by a second pannier tank, I believe it was known to be at Paddington from time to time, especially in the deep winter of 1962-3 if a Warship steam heating boiler had packed in. The only turntable around was inside the shed, so it occasionally made a quick visit into there if it suddenly had to face the other way.

 

[Electrostar387]

09026. It was all over single shade of dark green rather than Southern livery, but did gain a small Southern logo on each side.

Thank you! The addition of a Southern logo on each side must have been what was causing my memory glitch!

 

[8ace]

09026. It was all over single shade of dark green rather than Southern livery, but did gain a small Southern logo on each side. It was previously named William Pearson and one of its duties was dragging the Virgin Cross Country Class 47 & Mk2 coaching stock rakes out of the station to release the loco, allowing that to run round to the London end and the 09 drag the formation back into Brighton. That regular duty obviously ended once the Voyagers came into being, with Brighton then removed from the Virgin Cross Country network altogether. Sister 09025 could also be seen performing the Virgin duties in its white and yellow Connex livery during the late 90s/early 00s.

One wonders how much work it actually had in the ten years after the 4CIGs went in 2005, maybe the depot just didn't want to lose it's pet which is fair enough