Station lamps

[Strathclyder]

In line with the thread subject, this image of Carntyne station - dating from June 1962 - should be of interest (from the Eastbank.org.uk site).



Quite the contrast between the gas lights and the then-virtually brand spanking new Blue Trains!

 

[WesternLancer]

In line with the thread subject, this image of Carntyne station - dating from June 1962 - should be of interest (from the Eastbank.org.uk site).



Quite the contrast between the gas lights and the then-virtually brand spanking new Blue Trains!

Nice to see that pic!

 

[Ashley Hill]

I’ve never seen a Glasgow Electric sign that big before. Presumably it’s above a bridge.

 

[D6130]

I’ve never seen a Glasgow Electric sign that big before. Presumably it’s above a bridge.

There used to be quite a few of those large signs mounted on either side of main road underbridges adjacent to Glasgow Electric stations back in the 'sixties and early 'seventies. Other examples that I can recall were at Dumbarton East, Anniesland, Partickhill and Williamwood. No doubt other members will be able to add to the list. (Sorry....OT, I know!)

 

[Strathclyder]

I’ve never seen a Glasgow Electric sign that big before. Presumably it’s above a bridge.

Yeah, that sign is/was attached to the road bridge carrying the line over Carntynehall Road, the 303 in that image has come from Airdrie and is bound for Helensburgh Central (via Singer). As @D6130 notes, it wasn't the only one on the Glasgow Electric network.

(OT I know!)

 

[nw1]

Until 1973, when they were replaced by electric lamps on tall wooden poles, the wall-mounted copper-framed gas lamps at some or all of the West Highland line stations had paper name stickers - with white lettering on a black background - inside the lamp glass near the top. I particularly remember the ones at Helensburgh Upper - where, as an enthusiastic teenager, I used to unofficially light the gas lamps and change the silk elements - and at Garelochhead.

The 1973 version sounds rare enough, I don't recall seeing station lights on wooden poles anywhere. Certainly they had gone from the Spean Bridge to Corrour section at Easter weekend 2008 (my only visit to the WHL, but a memorable one, involving visiting the pub at Corrour and then waiting at Corrour station in the dark and snow for the northbound evening train..)

 

[Morayshire]

According to the Selectra website, Garelochhead is currently connected to the gas distribution network....so I suspect that it would have been 'back in the day'. (Apologies for beginning to drift OT).

Funnily enough, there are historical maps for gas supply on the NLS website now. They were added very recently.

NLS ten mile gas maps

Maps date from 1951 and cover the whole of the UK

 

[Andy873]

Back on this subject for me, the following intrigues me:

Circa 1870, what type of oil was used for the lamps in the signals etc?
Where was it made, gas works, coal mine etc?

Looking at the 1957 timetable, one country station (in the evenings) had the following trains:

7 16 pm
10 26 pm
11 07 pm

I'm guessing the platform lights would be turned off between trains, or turned back on say 20 minutes before / when the first passenger turns up for the next train?

This station known by the locals as 'Lamp oil junction' had only two rows of terrace housing and a pub nearby. Although gas lighting wasn't as bright as modern lights, do you think this name - lamp oil junction was because to the locals the station was lit up like Blackpool illuminations?

I know that at this station, as soon as the last train had left, the platform lights were immediately turned off.

Thanks,
Andy.

 

[Taunton]

Back on this subject for me, the following intrigues me:

Circa 1870, what type of oil was used for the lamps in the signals etc?
Where was it made, gas works, coal mine etc?

Much was a paraffin-type product, made from heating oil shale. In Victorian times West Lothian, west of Edinburgh, was apparently one of the largest such oil producers in the world. The rock was dug out and processed, the spent inert material being dumped in huge piles, a number of which are still around and can be seen from the various Edinburgh-Glasgow lines.

 

[D6130]

Much was a paraffin-type product, made from heating oil shale. In Victorian times West Lothian, west of Edinburgh, was apparently one of the largest such oil producers in the world. The rock was dug out and processed, the spent inert material being dumped in huge piles, a number of which are still around and can be seen from the various Edinburgh-Glasgow lines.

Slightly OT, but the 'Five Sisters' bing (Lowland Scots term for a slag heap), near West Calder - and visible from all four of the main Edinburgh-Glasgow lines - is a scheduled ancient monument and natural habitat.

 

[John Webb]

......Looking at the 1957 timetable, one country station (in the evenings) had the following trains:

7 16 pm
10 26 pm
11 07 pm

I'm guessing the platform lights would be turned off between trains, or turned back on say 20 minutes before / when the first passenger turns up for the next train?

This station known by the locals as 'Lamp oil junction' had only two rows of terrace housing and a pub nearby. Although gas lighting wasn't as bright as modern lights, do you think this name - lamp oil junction was because to the locals the station was lit up like Blackpool illuminations?

I know that at this station, as soon as the last train had left, the platform lights were immediately turned off.

Thanks,
Andy.

Andy - was the station you refer to above lit by paraffin, gas or electrical lamps? Only the type of lighting would affect what the station staff would do. Although I suspect that in any case the lights would be left on to ensure that trips and falls by staff and passengers were at a minimum, particularly the latter.

 

[Gloster]

If oil or gas they would probably be left on due to the inconvenience of putting them out and then relighting them. If there was staff right through until end of service they would probably be taken in after the last trains; if not, then they would be either left out (and lit) or the signalman might collect them in. If electric they might be switched off between trains, but probably not; if unstaffed the signalman might have a switch, which would probably only be used after the last train.

There might be a situation where there were a few lights that were kept on after dark as long as the station was open, these being in the parts that passengers might have business in outside the times that there were trains, but the rest would be switched off between trains. There was also a slight reluctance to frequently switch lights on and off.

 

[Pinza-C55]

Back on this subject for me, the following intrigues me:

Circa 1870, what type of oil was used for the lamps in the signals etc?
Where was it made, gas works, coal mine etc?

Looking at the 1957 timetable, one country station (in the evenings) had the following trains:

7 16 pm
10 26 pm
11 07 pm

I'm guessing the platform lights would be turned off between trains, or turned back on say 20 minutes before / when the first passenger turns up for the next train?

This station known by the locals as 'Lamp oil junction' had only two rows of terrace housing and a pub nearby. Although gas lighting wasn't as bright as modern lights, do you think this name - lamp oil junction was because to the locals the station was lit up like Blackpool illuminations?

I know that at this station, as soon as the last train had left, the platform lights were immediately turned off.

Thanks,
Andy.

Not sure whether it was used as far back as 1870 but the commonest oil used in signal lamps was Rape Seed Oil as it produced a very clear and steady light. Rape seed is that yellow crop you see adjacent to some country lines.

 

[Andy873]

was the station you refer to above lit by paraffin, gas or electrical lamps?

John, the station remained gas lit until it closed.

If oil or gas they would probably be left on due to the inconvenience of putting them out and then relighting them.

Thanks for that, just wondered if they might have wanted to save money by turning the lights off especially for a three hour interval.

Much was a paraffin-type product, made from heating oil shale. In Victorian times West Lothian, west of Edinburgh, was apparently one of the largest such oil producers in the world.

Not sure whether it was used as far back as 1870 but the commonest oil used in signal lamps was Rape Seed Oil

Thanks guys for that, when you search the Internet you only get the lamps for sale, no mention of the fuel they used.

Still not sure why the locals called it 'lamp oil junction', there was no lamp room as such there.

Thanks,
Andy.

 

[John Webb]

John, the station remained gas lit until it closed......

Thanks,
Andy.

I would think then that the gas lamps were left lit - if a gas mantle is going to fail it's often when you turn the gas on, so better to leave burning than lose a light and have to replace a mantle.

 

[Taunton]

I would think then that the gas lamps were left lit - if a gas mantle is going to fail it's often when you turn the gas on, so better to leave burning than lose a light and have to replace a mantle.

Not really so - in my youthful experience of stations their gas lamps had a hanging chains mechanism that a porter pulled one side or the other with a long pole in the traditional manner to turn on or off - I can recollect one that was reachable, and getting a reprimand for same . There was a small pilot light that remained lit throughout.

Street lamps used to be the same, and the Lamplighter would come round on their bicycle with a pole over their shoulder to do the same.

 

[D6130]

Street lamps used to be the same, and the Lamplighter would come round on their bicycle with a pole over their shoulder to do the same.

Hence the expression 'Lighting-up time'.

 

[Andy873]

There was a small pilot light that remained lit throughout.

Thanks Taunton, you pre-empted my next question, I wondered just how the lamps lit up after the gas flow was turned on.

gas lamps had a hanging chains mechanism that a porter pulled one side or the other with a long pole

Yes, I've seen the chains on photos, thought one would be for on and the other for off.

Thanks,
Andy.

 

[WesternLancer]

Still got gas street lighting where I live! - the mantles last a fair amount of time - lamp mechs are clockwork and they ignite the mantles from pilot lights - a person is employed to wind the clockwork mechs about once per week and generally check on them, and adjust the timer that lights and turns them off as lighting up time changes. Gets a bit hit and miss when the hours of darkness change quite quickly at certain seasons as about 200 lamps to attend to IIRC.

 

[Andy873]

Still got gas street lighting where I live! - the mantles last a fair amount of time - lamp mechs are clockwork and they ignite the mantles from pilot lights - a person is employed to wind the clockwork mechs about once per week and generally check on them, and adjust the timer that lights and closes them as lighting up time changes.

I bet it makes a nice change from the glare of modern lights, a reminder of how things used to be!

 

[WesternLancer]

I bet it makes a nice change from the glare of modern lights, a reminder of how things used to be!

It very much does Andy - it's a very nice soft light. Tho this does not stop some residents moaning that it is 'not bright enough' to see properly (I grew up in a village with no lighting at all so I have no sympathy at all for such moaning).

A lighting engineer has informed us that the gas light can now be exactly replicated using LED that emit the same light spectrum - which I am sure is true, but really not the same thing! Long may it continue as is.

 

[edwin_m]

Still got gas street lighting where I live! - the mantles last a fair amount of time - lamp mechs are clockwork and they ignite the mantles from pilot lights - a person is employed to wind the clockwork mechs about once per week and generally check on them, and adjust the timer that lights and turns them off as lighting up time changes. Gets a bit hit and miss when the hours of darkness change quite quickly at certain seasons as about 200 lamps to attend to IIRC.

It very much does Andy - it's a very nice soft light. Tho this does not stop some residents moaning that it is 'not bright enough' to see properly (I grew up in a village with no lighting at all so I have no sympathy at all for such moaning).

Not sure if you live in the Park Estate in Nottingham (referred to somewhere upthread) but that was certainly the situation when I lived there a couple of decades back. At the time the person who wound and adjusted the clocks was on a bicycle with a ladder over his shoulder, but he must have retried by know and it's not exactly a large pool of labour to recruit from so I don't know what they do now. One downside was the tendency of drivers to use full beam headlights, completely unnecessary at the official 20mph limit and encouraging them to drive too fast as well as dazzle others.

Not really so - in my youthful experience of stations their gas lamps had a hanging chains mechanism that a porter pulled one side or the other with a long pole in the traditional manner to turn on or off - I can recollect one that was reachable, and getting a reprimand for same . There was a small pilot light that remained lit throughout.

Street lamps used to be the same, and the Lamplighter would come round on their bicycle with a pole over their shoulder to do the same.

I recall the same at Stalybridge in the early 1970s. I'm sure clocks would have been available at the time but a station with traditional staffing levels could easily spare someone for a few minutes to attend to the lamps, so there probably wasn't any reason to install them. I don't know how many unstaffed stations had gas lamps, but my guess is fairly few.

 

[D6130]

Helensburgh Upper had gas lamps until about the summer of 1973....but it was fully-staffed then. In winter, the late turn leading railman illuminated the lights at the appropriate time, leaving them on all night until the early turn man turned them off in the morning. Officially, they were supposed to have been turned off overnight, but both leading railmen lived in the Alexandria/Renton area and tended to arrive for early turn on the morning sleeper from Dumbarton, so the station had to be lit for its arrival. In summer they weren't used at all, as the first and last calling trains were in daylight.

 

[Taunton]

David L Smith, in his fascinating books about the G&SWR inn Scotland, wrote that in the 1920s a crew running after dark suddenly recalled a remote station thereabouts they should stop at, found they had run past it, and backed up. Nobody about, passengers or staff. "Just a candle in a window", they reported. This actually describes the difficulty of stopping at a remote station, on a dark and rainy night, when the platform is scarcely lit, the train has no headlights, and there are no other lights around. A distant signal or similar might be appropriate, but they seem not to have been always provided.

Last station gas lights I recall were at Dunstall Park, first stop out of Wolverhampton Low Level. We had just bunked Oxley shed and were now heading to Tyseley. Probably 1966. The station had likely had no renewals of anything since nationalisation.

Last oil-lit one I recall was Yeo Mill Halt, Taunton to Barnstaple line, to the end like this. It had no staff and no services at all - electric, gas or water - so oil lamps were the only way. There were a few oil lamps on the approach path as well. Although the guard of the last train was supposed to put them out I believe they would often delegate this to a responsible alighting passenger known to them; country folk then knew what to do with oil lamps, as their cottages nearby likely still had the same.

 

[Pinza-C55]

Thanks Taunton, you pre-empted my next question, I wondered just how the lamps lit up after the gas flow was turned on.


Yes, I've seen the chains on photos, thought one would be for on and the other for off.

Thanks,
Andy.

Many of the station gas lamps were made by Sugg and my local station (Pallion) had a full set of them. When my parents moved there in 1968 the station had been closed for 4 years and the lamps had been removed from the posts but the gas was still connected so we could pull the little chains to let the gas out - I can't remember if we set light to it. As far as I remember the lamps had a small pilot light rather than needing to be lit by hand.

This is a great short video on gas lamps

 

[edwin_m]

I seem to recall reading that Dalmeny was the last or one of the last to have gas lamps, into the late 70s.

 

[John Webb]

Here's a photo of the 'operating' pipework on one of our station lamps:

The smaller pipe on the right comes off the supply below the chain-operated valve and sends a continuous gas supply up the right-hand support pipe where it feeds into the pilot light via a small needle valve etc. to allow for some adjustment.
The larger pipe on the left takes the controlled gas supply to the main burner. We've left the chains off to deter fiddling with the lamp and you can also see an electric cable which provides the 12v electric LED globe bulb with it's power.

We've two lamps arranged like this. The third had no pipework and we had to mock up something; this is it after erection:

In this case I was able to route the wires through one of the gas/support pipes to keep them hidden. The LED bulb was chosen as being about the same size as a gas mantle!

 

[randyrippley]

Back on this subject for me, the following intrigues me:

Circa 1870, what type of oil was used for the lamps in the signals etc?
Where was it made, gas works, coal mine etc?

Around then whale oil was still in use for domestic lighting, it being relatively low smoke. Did the railways use it?
Also were some of the "gas" lights actually acetylene / carbide lamps? Cheap, bright, no mains feed required

 

[John Webb]

Around then whale oil was still in use for domestic lighting, it being relatively low smoke. Did the railways use it?
Also were some of the "gas" lights actually acetylene / carbide lamps? Cheap, bright, no mains feed required

The only Carbide lamps I've seen for railway use were portable lights for Permanent Way workers, generally a large bowl reflector giving a sideways 'flood' of light. Smaller Carbide lamps were also used for bicycle headlamps and other vehicular use.

 

[Pinza-C55]

I seem to recall reading that Dalmeny was the last or one of the last to have gas lamps, into the late 70s.

I visited Spalding station in the summer of 1979 and I recall the Sugg Rochester gas lamps had just been replaced and were lying in a heap behind the platform.