Stagecoach East Scotland

[FlybeDash8Q400]

10585 SN16OUB was parked up outside the Lothian Country depot in Livingston on Sunday evening. Anyone know why?

10586 along with 10671 and 10672 have moved south of the border to Carlisle. I’d imagine this was a mid route break.

 

[VioletEclipse]

10586 SN16OUB was parked up outside the Lothian Country depot in Livingston on Sunday evening. Anyone know why?

very ususual to see a stagey think in livi

 

[AndrewTaylor95]

very ususual to see a stagey think in livi

X51 serves Livingston 7 days a week

 

[VioletEclipse]

X51 serves Livingston 7 days a week

Ok good point, shows how much I think of the X51 as different to regular stagey routes which are run by E400s, as the X51 is almost purely coaches.

 

[stevenedin]

I did see a coach in the standard Stagecoach livery in Edinburgh the over day with an SV plate. Not sure if they are doing away with the yellow coach livery or of this is a recent transfer that hasn't been repainted yet.

 

[VioletEclipse]

I did see a coach in the standard Stagecoach livery in Edinburgh the over day with an SV plate. Not sure if they are doing away with the yellow coach livery or of this is a recent transfer that hasn't been repainted yet.

by standard livery do you mean the new dark blue one? otherwise coaches are all yellow afaik (except megabus/citylink).

 

[AndrewTaylor95]

Ok good point, shows how much I think of the X51 as different to regular stagey routes which are run by E400s, as the X51 is almost purely coaches.

Not coaches all the time, There a 19 plate E400MMC on it today and one coach, Sometimes it's E400s completely

 

[VioletEclipse]

Not coaches all the time, There a 19 plate E400MMC on it today and one coach, Sometimes it's E400s completely

Must have just always been coaches when I've been in Livi.

 

[AndrewTaylor95]

I did see a coach in the standard Stagecoach livery in Edinburgh the over day with an SV plate. Not sure if they are doing away with the yellow coach livery or of this is a recent transfer that hasn't been repainted yet.

There's a few in Stagecoach local livery that have been transferred to Perth from Blairgowrie for the holidays and being used on the X56

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Jul 2025 ==

Must have just always been coaches when I've been in Livi.

Biggest majority of the time it's Scania E400s on it providing the FRB isn't closed when it's windy

 

[stevenedin]

by standard livery do you mean the new dark blue one? otherwise coaches are all yellow afaik (except megabus/citylink).

It’s the local livery that came after the beach ball one but before the dark blue one. Have they settled on changing them all to dark blue now?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Jul 2025 ==

There's a few in Stagecoach local livery that have been transferred to Perth from Blairgowrie for the holidays and being used on the X56

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Jul 2025 ==


Biggest majority of the time it's Scania E400s on it providing the FRB isn't closed when it's windy

It could possibly have been this one.

 

[AndrewTaylor95]

It’s the local livery that came after the beach ball one but before the dark blue one. Have they settled on changing them all to dark blue now?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Jul 2025 ==


It could possibly have been this one.

53719 SV11 FSF
53720 SV11 FRZ
53721 SV11 FSA
53722 SV11 FSC
Are all in Local livery except FSF which is in a different type of local livery to the rest

 

[overthewater]

Stagecoach had a launch event with Tay FM up in West link at Arbroath, to celebrate Tayway going electric. They had some good weather for it.

 

[CSB0241]

Ok good point, shows how much I think of the X51 as different to regular stagey routes which are run by E400s, as the X51 is almost purely coaches.

I dunno, I feel like I never see it on coaches nowadays, basically all just E400s/E400MMCs with the occasional E200MMC.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

I’m told 10673-10684 might be heading to Devon/Cornwall with South West now. Disappointing if true?

 

[AndrewTaylor95]

I’m told 10673-10684 might be heading to Devon/Cornwall with South West now. Disappointing if true?

They aught to make thier minds up, Fife depots are desperately needing updated deckers, Glenrothes for one after getting shafted out of new buses

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

They aught to make thier minds up, Fife depots are desperately needing updated deckers, Glenrothes for one after getting shafted out of new buses

Yes apparently South West have picked up college contracts that require around 20 extra vehicles.

If it results in East Scotland getting a newer batch than the 16 plates down the line, it’s not so bad. I’m sure many of us would have doubts that would happen.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

They aught to make thier minds up, Fife depots are desperately needing updated deckers, Glenrothes for one after getting shafted out of new buses

Which Fife routes require double deckers and will be able to sustain the depreciation on "updated deckers"?

You'll find the only new-ish double decks on the 7 between Leven and Dunfermline. The vast majority of other double decks in Fife are used on normal service runs around schools.

 

[overthewater]

Tech someone must have through the fife routes could sustain depreciation on "updated deckers"? Why else did the plan to move in those 16plate decker's? There nothing else spare is there so if Fife was to get new stuff it will be 17 plate next year?

None of the "non Electric" stock that was promised from last year seem to either appeared or in the case of the stock that went to Angus was so short lived that you have to wonder why they even bothered. I wonder if this has all changed because they give up those School Contracts?

Is all the Euro 4 buses now out of fleet in Fife? If not then they will have to find something else to replace them and pretty fast.

However the Fife routes are no longer the cash cows they once were, No7, No19, No37-39 are not as busy as they were before covid.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Tech someone must have through the fife routes could sustain depreciation on "updated deckers"? Why else did the plan to move in those 16plate decker's? There nothing else spare is there so if Fife was to get new stuff it will be 17 plate next year?

None of the "non Electric" stock that was promised from last year seem to either appeared or in the case of the stock that went to Angus was so short lived that you have to wonder why they even bothered. I wonder if this has all changed because they give up those School Contracts?

Is all the Euro 4 buses now out of fleet in Fife? If not then they will have to find something else to replace them and pretty fast.

However the Fife routes are no longer the cash cows they once were, No7, No19, No37-39 are not as busy as they were before covid.

I would say a lot of this is coming from the head office people who control the big swaps of vehicles. If they have indeed said that those 12 MMC’s are to go to South West, then there’s not a lot the local office staff can do about it. Am I not right and saying that vehicle swaps have to go through them anyway? The system is something like that.

I also don’t think losing 26006-26012 was part of the plan either. I never quite worked out where the spare E200mmc’s were meant to come from. All I can think is that it was the ex Midlands Gold examples that most of which went to Stagecoach South, with a handful to West Scotland. East Scotland of course would pick up a handful of the ex Fastlink E300’s from Midlands.

It will be interesting to see what departs as a result of the BZL’s coming in as well.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

Tech someone must have through the fife routes could sustain depreciation on "updated deckers"? Why else did the plan to move in those 16plate decker's? There nothing else spare is there so if Fife was to get new stuff it will be 17 plate next year?

None of the "non Electric" stock that was promised from last year seem to either appeared or in the case of the stock that went to Angus was so short lived that you have to wonder why they even bothered. I wonder if this has all changed because they give up those School Contracts?

Is all the Euro 4 buses now out of fleet in Fife? If not then they will have to find something else to replace them and pretty fast.

However the Fife routes are no longer the cash cows they once were, No7, No19, No37-39 are not as busy as they were before covid.

Plans often change! Arbroath were meant to be getting MMCs from Manchester to replace the B5s before the new EVs arrived but that never happened either

"They bothered" because the B5s had been sold, the EVs hadn't been delivered and the infrastructure wasn't in place

The MAN-engined E400s which were at Rennies have just moved to Aberhill, fairly sure they're Euro 4.

I would say a lot of this is coming from the head office people who control the big swaps of vehicles. If they have indeed said that those 12 MMC’s are to go to South West, then there’s not a lot the local office staff can do about it. Am I not right and saying that vehicle swaps have to go through them anyway? The system is something like that.

I suspect vehicle movements between OpCos are decided above local head office level

Movements between depots will be decided by local head office and depot management

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

The MAN-engined E400s which were at Rennies have just moved to Aberhill, fairly sure they're Euro 4.

I assume these will be more or less a like for like replacement for the Scania Omnicity’s? Makes you wonder if any of the Rennies based contracts could move depot (if they re-bid for those). I know the media were saying they’d handed back the lot that were based there.

I suspect vehicle movements between OpCos are decided above local head office level

Movements between depots will be decided by local head office and depot management

Yes sorry I was referring to the group head office rather than the OpCo head office. That system you’re talking about is generally how I’d seen it. Thanks for confirming.

 

[overthewater]

If the E400 from Rennies to Aberhill are Euro4 then surly they want last long within the next 4 weeks they have to get replaced as Fife council doc a coupe of pages back and the main reason why Rennies school work was given up.

 

[JD2168]

Yes apparently South West have picked up college contracts that require around 20 extra vehicles.

If it results in East Scotland getting a newer batch than the 16 plates down the line, it’s not so bad. I’m sure many of us would have doubts that would happen.

Stagecoach have took on a lot of the contract’s First Kernow had. Quite a number are Euro 5 or 6 minimum

 

[AndrewTaylor95]

If the E400 from Rennies to Aberhill are Euro4 then surly they want last long within the next 4 weeks they have to get replaced as Fife council doc a coupe of pages back and the main reason why Rennies school work was given up.

MAN E400s are Euro 5

 

[scosutsut]

I believe the Euro 5 requirement applies to council contracts only. They have not established a LEZ, bus specific or otherwise.

Update: it is:

21A. From Monday 19 August 2024 until Sunday 13 August 2028 and, subject to
Condition 22, all vehicles used on a Contract must have a minimum engine type of
EURO V. Zero-emission Vehicles are also permitted.
21B. From Monday 14 August 2028 and, subject to Condition 22, all vehicles used on a
Contract must have a minimum engine type of EURO VI. Zero-emission Vehicles are
also permitted.

Source: https://www.fife.gov.uk/__data/asse...zsoNegQICBAN&usg=AOvVaw1dVQfgSs1gt0ldlzTOs7bk

It'll be interesting. On one hand I think it's absolutely Fife Council's right, and not only that moral duty to award contracts that don't unnecessarily pollute more than is necessary. However it feels somewhat detached from the fiscal reality both they and potential operators will face.

Let's see how it plays out.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

I believe the Euro 5 requirement applies to council contracts only. They have not established a LEZ, bus specific or otherwise.

Update: it is:



Source: https://www.fife.gov.uk/__data/asse...zsoNegQICBAN&usg=AOvVaw1dVQfgSs1gt0ldlzTOs7bk

It'll be interesting. On one hand I think it's absolutely Fife Council's right, and not only that moral duty to award contracts that don't unnecessarily pollute more than is necessary. However it feels somewhat detached from the fiscal reality both they and potential operators will face.

Let's see how it plays out.

I love how they have to say zero emission vehicles are permitted, as if they wouldn’t be?

The problem is finding an operator that can meet that Euro 6 target from 2028 is going to be a struggle. Unless the value of buses plummet as a result of increased use of EV’s or exhaust conversions are cheap enough for it to be widespread then it could be worrying times ahead. The plummet theory seems to be the gamble many councils have taken here. Unfortunately the powers that be across several councils (not just Fife) seem to be obsessed with emission figures rather than social or financial ones. Verging slightly off topic but to bring it back on topic, I can’t see how it becomes viable for Stagecoach at all at that point. There’s limited money in these contracts so unless the council up the £’s (unlikely), I fear there’s potential in the future for a lot of contracts having no operator.

 

[overthewater]

Nearly ALL the double deckers in the Fife fleet are used for school contract so, there will need replaced within 3 years. Fife council has NO right to do this, as there hypocrites. They done nothing to stop smokey cars and vans running about yet just a few months ago moaned that School Transport coast have go up 19%, and this was before this mess come about.

I wonder how much more money will need to be spent on the new contracts which have been handed out, mind you trying to get ANY information has been awful its like the Stasi, I wonder why.. Maybe because the cost have sky rocketed...

 

[scosutsut]

I mean Stagey were slightly naughty, taking on a contract with the Euro 5 terms in it, and handing it back before the deadline.

What will be interesting if when retendered just how much more expensive any bids will be, if they receive any!

And what Fife Council will do if it's the former.

I hope they don't try and set up an operation themselves as 1. They couldn't run a bath and 2. They are skint.

But short of retender with the terms removed, what else could they do?

 

[Ohnolookwho]

I love how they have to say zero emission vehicles are permitted, as if they wouldn’t be?

The problem is finding an operator that can meet that Euro 6 target from 2028 is going to be a struggle. Unless the value of buses plummet as a result of increased use of EV’s or exhaust conversions are cheap enough for it to be widespread then it could be worrying times ahead. The plummet theory seems to be the gamble many councils have taken here. Unfortunately the powers that be across several councils (not just Fife) seem to be obsessed with emission figures rather than social or financial ones. Verging slightly off topic but to bring it back on topic, I can’t see how it becomes viable for Stagecoach at all at that point. There’s limited money in these contracts so unless the council up the £’s (unlikely), I fear there’s potential in the future for a lot of contracts having no operator.

Converting an Omnicity from Euro 4 to Euro 6 only costs about £2,000.

 

[GusB]

Converting an Omnicity from Euro 4 to Euro 6 only costs about £2,000.

Do you have a source to back up this claim?