Staff being difficult over attempts to break journey

[Bletchleyite]

They seem to have changed things recently so that, except on the Underground, any off peak ticket that uses the "Network Rule" to cross London ahead of the time from which you can leave London forwards will be rejected at the barriers on the way to London, including at the terminus before crossing London. Most annoying, and guaranteed to cause problems if any member of the barrier staff is not aware of the "Network Rule".

It's not that sophisticated. Usually it's just that particular gatelines will be set to reject by specific time ranges and ticket types. Gatelines don't know the actual time restrictions of specific ticket restriction codes, so they will be set to the general case to/from that station.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 May 2026 ==

Does this include off peak tickets that have no time restrictions?

It will yes. It will be as simple as "ticket type SVR is not to be let through before 1030" or whatever.

 

[redreni]

An advantage of e-tickets is that that [the barrier retaining the ticket] can't happen...

No, but if you're breaking your journey on the outbound portion of a return and you present the barcode for the return portion by mistake, you've just irrevocably invalidated the rest of the outward portion and lost the first part of the validity of the return potion.

At least if the gate swallows your ticket, you can ask nicely and the member of staff will probably be able to retrieve it for you.

 

[Bletchleyite]

No, but if you're breaking your journey on the outbound portion of a return and you present the barcode for the return portion by mistake, you've just irrevocably invalidated the rest of the outward portion and lost the first part of the validity of the return potion.

You're getting a bit niche there! It would depend on the staff but it'd probably be possible for them to scan an endorsement onto it. If you think you're likely to do that by mistake, don't put your return into your Google/Apple wallet until your outward journey is complete and then you can't.

 

[TUC]

Slanging match with whom? Some barrier operative who is unlikely to know the rules and regulations for every ticket and every journey? Why are the rules so complicated anyway? This is exactly what puts people off public transport.

Given how easy it is to look up the restrictions for a given ticket, it is hard to see why staff (or passengers) would have that excuse.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 May 2026 ==

It's not that sophisticated. Usually it's just that particular gatelines will be set to reject by specific time ranges and ticket types. Gatelines don't know the actual time restrictions of specific ticket restriction codes, so they will be set to the general case to/from that station.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 May 2026 ==

Does that reflect relatively old technology being within the gates? One would assume that a particular code being linked to specific ticket validity times is fairly simple functionality.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

It's not that sophisticated. Usually it's just that particular gatelines will be set to reject by specific time ranges and ticket types. Gatelines don't know the actual time restrictions of specific ticket restriction codes, so they will be set to the general case to/from that station.

It's definitely changed recently; the barriers used to accept them without any problems. This week I had to be let in at Epsom and out at Victoria with one for Birmingham Stations ( I was aiming at the 09.36 off Euston to visit Railtex* at the NEC ); that's never happened before.


*Yes, they changed the name following the takeover of the event organiser but everyone there seemed to still be using the Railtex name!

 

[Haywain]

The risk there is that the ticket barrier swallows the ticket as being used.

That's unlikely at an intermediate station.

An advantage of e-tickets is that that can't happen...

Exactly.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Does that reflect relatively old technology being within the gates? One would assume that a particular code being linked to specific ticket validity times is fairly simple functionality.

It wouldn't be too hard to do, but in my understanding it isn't actually done.

Break of journey is harder as you need to know permitted routes as well. Often gates will be programmed with given origins/destinations to allow through - I once had a suspicion New St allowed anything, but bought Scotscalder-Altnabreac online (as ToD) to try there and it didn't work.

 

[Tetchytyke]

That's unlikely at an intermediate station.

Depends on the intermediate station, and how the barriers have been configured. Some will- it's happened to me at Leeds with a London-Bradford ticket.

you've just irrevocably invalidated the rest of the outward portion and lost the first part of the validity of the return potion

No you haven't.

 

[AndrewE]

I am a bit puzzled by this thread as when I was involved in ticket sales (50 yrs ago) I thought the general rule was that break of journey wasn't normally allowed on outward journeys but was, and as aften as you wanted within the validity on the return leg.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I thought the general rule was that break of journey wasn't normally allowed on outward journeys but was, and as aften as you wanted within the validity on the return leg.

Yes, for the old Saver and SuperSaver. For the old Open, no- and the outward on an Open used to be valid for five days.

 

[redreni]

No you haven't.

No, but you might as well have done. You have in the eyes of the system.

The scan data can and will be interpreted to mean you've travelled on the return potion between the origin (or some point between there and the break point) to the break point, which, if true, would mean that the outward portion has no remaining validity at all and the return potion is only valid to go from the break point (or some intermediate point between the break point and the destination) towards the destination.

You might be able to explain your way out of it if there is scan data showing when you began your journey, which is capable of convincing staff your story about having presented the wrong portion of the ticket to the scanner must be true (because, for instance, you wouldn't have had time to travel beyond the break point and come back). But you've given yourself a world of inconvenience and basically made yourself reliant on staff discretion, because every subsequent scan on your outbound portion and when you begin your return journey will give staff an indication that your ticket is being re-used.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 May 2026 ==

Yes, for the old Saver and SuperSaver. For the old Open, no- and the outward on an Open used to be valid for five days.

It's not the case for shorter distance tickets like CDRs either. Or the new DOR ticket type. Break of journey is generally unrestricted both ways.

Break of journey rights can be a key consideration when choosing between DOS, DOR or CDR tickets and Contactless in and around London.

 

[roritoberry]

Hi
Just to jump on the back of this question. Next month I’m planning a trip from Manchester to Gatwick, out Saturday and return on the Sunday. On the return can I:
a)break my journey at Leamington Spa or Birmingham for a few hours and then continue back on the same day
b)break my journey as above but then stay overnight and continue my return journey back to Manchester the following day
Ticket I would be holding would be a off peak open return SVR Manchester Stns to Gatwick

Thanks

 

[Haywain]

Hi
Just to jump on the back of this question. Next month I’m planning a trip from Manchester to Gatwick, out Saturday and return on the Sunday. On the return can I:
a)break my journey at Leamington Spa or Birmingham for a few hours and then continue back on the same day
b)break my journey as above but then stay overnight and continue my return journey back to Manchester the following day
Ticket I would be holding would be a off peak open return SVR Manchester Stns to Gatwick

Thanks

Yes, you can break your journey, although in the case of the second option you would be subject to any relevant time restrictions applying to the ticket (no travel before 0930 on CrossCountry).

 

[roritoberry]

Yes, you can break your journey, although in the case of the second option you would be subject to any relevant time restrictions applying to the ticket (no travel before 0930 on CrossCountry).

Much appreciated!

 

[crablab]

You're getting a bit niche there!

I dunno, I think I've done this once by mistake. There's no way to know really; the barrier isn't going to tell you.

One of the issues, as has been pointed out elsewhere and I believe you've noted it too, is passengers have no way of viewing their scan/endorsement history. Indeed, it's complicated to even construct this as it's held by each ticket validation vendor (eg. TTK).

So you'd really have no idea that you'd accidentally done this, until an RPI starts querying why your 30-day return was scanned last week on your outward...

One for another thread, but you can see clips/endorsements/scribbles on CCST. The same should be possible with Aztec tickets and the TVD.

It is quite common for staff to insist that you try using the barrier before they will let you out manually.

I will always performatively put my ticket through the barrier so they can see the rejection code, even though I know it'll be rejected.

The only gatelines I experience major difficulty are TfL; I don't think their staff are really trained on National Rail ticketing and aren't used to ticket rejection being "normal". Most people are just using contactless so, in my experience, you're treated with great suspicion if your ticket is rejected. Unfortunately some staff then go on to make up all sorts of reasons your ticket really isn't valid, based on the rejection code.

Sometimes it's easier to just find another gateline or tap out & seek a refund from customer services.

 

[philthetube]

It's classic railway having its cake and eating it too.

Make ticketing restrictions complicated for its own benefits
Use gate line staff that doesn't want to pay to train up properly

Be careful what you wish for, the easiest simplification would be to ban break of journey.

 

[Snow1964]

Be careful what you wish for, the easiest simplification would be to ban break of journey.

That's a good way to invite every split ticketing site to add a box asking where might like to break your journey. I think it would have unintended consequences.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

Some staff are poorly trained, with little incentive to do their jobs properly, and many of them make up rules to fit with their views of how they think things ought to be, for which they never get into trouble from their management.

Clearly there are many good, competent and conscientious staff, so you’re just unlucky to come across one of the others.

For example, an off-peak return Hove-London Victoria has restriction code B1 and no break of journey restrictions. https://www.brfares.com/!faredetail?orig=HOV&dest=VIC&expert=on&flow=2&multi=0&fare=12&tkt=SVR

Yes, part of the “I’m not paid enough for this” gloom that is Poisoning employment

 

[185143]

I flashed my wildly off route advance tickets at Peterborough last week and said I was nipping to the shop. (Which I was!) Let out and back in no problem.

My tickets were Crewe-Euston and Liverpool Street-Harwich advances. Said I'd had to divert and it was no problem at all.

 

[Djgr]

A reminder that before you purchase any ticket you should be able to interogate the relevant ticket code (e.g..8A) for any break of journey restrictions.

You are not expected to remember them, although running a weekly test for staff might have its merits!

 

[Snow1964]

A reminder that before you purchase any ticket you should be able to interogate the relevant ticket code (e.g..8A) for any break of journey restrictions.

You are not expected to remember them, although running a weekly test for staff might have its merits!

And logically for QR / Aztec coded tickets, it should be possible to include code, and have a simple look up. So that gates can be programmed to either accept or reject the code, and return ticket to user.

Oh, but actually using the codes when programming gates is either in the can't be bothered, or too much effort or too costly for most stations. Basically use the idea can always and reject and send them to an untrained gate line staff member instead, who will often also reject. Zero customer focus

 

[Krokodil]

I have found that staff seem to adopt a "computer says no" attitude with e-tickets, if the barriers reject it then they just assume isn't valid.

At least if the gate swallows your ticket, you can ask nicely and the member of staff will probably be able to retrieve it for you.

Given how easy it is to look up the restrictions for a given ticket, it is hard to see why staff (or passengers) would have that excuse.

A reminder that before you purchase any ticket you should be able to interogate the relevant ticket code (e.g..8A) for any break of journey restrictions.

You are not expected to remember them, although running a weekly test for staff might have its merits!

It's easy to look up restrictions on a CCST or a PRT after purchase - a short-form web address is printed on them.

However I've never seen it made easy for eTickets. Most journey planners too, I recall that when you look at the list of ticket types on Trainline the Off Peak ones would just have a generic "peak restrictions apply" or words to that effect with no clear way to find out what they were.

 

[Djgr]

It's easy to look up restrictions on a CCST or a PRT after purchase - a short-form web address is printed on them.

However I've never seen it made easy for eTickets. Most journey planners too, I recall that when you look at the list of ticket types on Trainline the Off Peak ones would just have a generic "peak restrictions apply" or words to that effect with no clear way to find out what they were.

Well I have just had a look at my Tfw e-ticket and there is a clear link to the relevant restriction.

I don't use Trainline

 

[Bletchleyite]

Well I have just had a look at my Tfw e-ticket and there is a clear link to the relevant restriction.

I don't use Trainline

There is always a URL to the restriction code on a walk-up type e-ticket in the supplementary text (tap the (i) icon to see it) whatever the retailer.

 

[Haywain]

However I've never seen it made easy for eTickets.

All the eTickets in my 'wallet', from a variety of retailers, have a link to the restrictions.

 

[Krokodil]

I don't use Trainline

Unfortunately most people do.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 May 2026 ==

All the eTickets in my 'wallet', from a variety of retailers, have a link to the restrictions.

Is the link in a suitably prominent place?

Bearing in mind that it does need to be idiot-proof.

 

[Haywain]

Is the link in a suitably prominent place?

Bearing in mind that it does need to be idiot-proof.

You can try to idiot-proof anything but there's no accounting for the levels of idiocy available.

But here's a screenshot:

 

[Krokodil]

Yeah, that looks easy enough to miss. I'd love to see something visible when the Aztec code is, just as you'd expect with a physical ticket.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yeah, that looks easy enough to miss. I'd love to see something visible when the Aztec code is, just as you'd expect with a physical ticket.

You could probably get a restriction code field in with just the code, and include the restriction code text on the detail screen. But these passes are designed to have two pages, and there's only so far you can go on user cluelessness about that when it's a standard iOS/Android thing.

 

[TUC]

What would help in the accessibility of e-tickets for visually impaired people is an option across multiple ticket retailers to link one's account within them to one's Railcard app so that the railcard automatically displays alongside the ticket for inspection. Having to move between two apps is a significant challenge.