Staff abusing 1st class travel privileges

[CNX]

I have been entitled to second/standard class travel facilities for the best part of 40 years, and have never asked if I could use first class, even if the train was wedged to the eyeballs. Neither have I ever been offered the opportunity.

TOC's whose services offer first class will have their own guidlines for on train staff regarding use of first class when trains are full and standing. But I doubt very much if senior managment would turn a blind eye to staff, regardless of TOC, using standard class travel facilities in premium accommodation.

Staff using first class when they shouldn't is a bit like the old GWR/Western Region tradition of guards not gripping free passes. It wasn't supposed to happen, but it did.

 

[RichmondCommu]

If the members of staff were making as much noise as the OP claims then I'm sure a quick "Excuse me, I'm trying to work" or something along those lines would have gotten the staff members to quieten down. It isn't like they were neds who'd have stabbed her/him. Instead of that s/he keeps quiet about it and then complains on an internet forum.

How are the staff to know they were being too raucous if they didn't realise it themselves and nobody bothered to tell them?

Surely its common decency to realise when you're being too raucous and to lower the tone?

 

[Greenback]

Particularly if you are in uniform, representing your company and easily identifiable as such

 

[dk1]

Of course it does. We're talking about staff riding passenger in first class.

Anyway, I am not a shareholder of a TOC. It's no skin off my nose. If you can all find a way of justifying the practice to yourselves, that's fine with me. But don't make out that it isn't fare dodging, because it is. If it was legit, you'd all have complementary first class passes.

It says staff coming off shift & riding passenger. If being the latter they would be on duty in uniform. I do not agree with staff on or off duty using bad language or upsetting other members of the travelling public, but sitting in vacant first class seats with the guards permission is perfectly acceptable & has & will remain to be railway practice.

 

[moggie]

RSTL regulations do not require retired staff using their travel facilities to give up their seats to fare paying passengers which I think is entirely reasonable. Whether they volunteer to do so I guess is down to them.

I would be interested to know of the views of those staff travelling in first who do not hold first class travel facilities - a member of staff with bona fide 1st class entitlement joins the train at some mid point station and enters first class -perhaps a retired couple on a day out. There are no spare seats so they move down to the standard class where they also find it hard to find two seats together. They therefore reluctantly join the standing members of the public. Class 221 for instance.

Who commands the moral high ground here?

 

[1V53]

If I was travelling in first I'd be out and standing myself if it got around 80% full anyway. However when I have been invited in by the guard it's been mostly 90% empty!

 

[yorksrob]

It really doesn't make a ha'porth of difference to me. It's your train so go for it. (As long as you don't mind me having a few beers - which you don't, going by experience - so that's fine by me)

 

[bnm]

Don't ban the staff from 1st Class, whether on or off duty. Where else am I going to overhear gossip about today's Train Manager, Customer Host, the MD, other colleagues, the SoS, Network Rail etc etc.

Particularly enjoy sitting in Coach F and eavesdropping, on a London bound FGW HST, after it's called at Swindon. The things you hear.....

 

[Mysterium]

Most enthusiasts would love to work on the trains and get paid a decent wage for doing something they enjoy. I know, I used to have the attitude many on here have towards staff, so I decided "if you can't beat them, join them". I did, and have never looked back

I wholeheartedly agree. I took the same route myself and now am doing the job that I used to dream about.

 

[strange6]

If I was travelling in first I'd be out and standing myself if it got around 80% full anyway. However when I have been invited in by the guard it's been mostly 90% empty!

Yeah, I think the vast majority of TOC staff use their common sense regarding this issue which is fair enough. If I were the boss, I would have no problem with the guard using his discretion either way. After all, that's what I pay them for! lol
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I wholeheartedly agree. I took the same route myself and now am doing the job that I used to dream about.

That's exactly why so many of you are damn good at the job you do. If you love your job, you'll excel - make no mistake.

 

[9K43]

I bet the double time came in handy though. Don't get me wrong, after a long working life of hard physical work you deserve your free rail pass but the fare paying passenger must always come first.

Please don't forget that without fare paying passengers (and valuable freight customers) there would not be a railway with the thousands of jobs that go with it.

And this comes from a commuter who loves trains and who's father and grandfather were both career railwaymen.

Don't bite the hand that feeds you!

There is no first class on the railway jobs that I performed. It would be hard to find a refreshment coach or Costa Coffee shop in 2 miles under the Pennine Chain in a single bore tunnel made in 1842.
For that matter preparing a ballast train half way between Garsdale and Dent Stations at 00:30hrs on a Sunday night in January in a gale.
Or sat in a tunnel up the Penistone Line with a crappy class 31, kicking out fumes that set the fire alarms off at Euston Station.
I have never been offered first class by any guard when travelling on a free pass, so I cant see what the fuss is about,.
The nearest I got was to sit on a pile of freshly printed news papers going from Manchester Vic to Dewsbury at 03:00hrs in the morning.
What I ate and drank was in my traps bag, and if I brought no snap that was that.
I wore a blue dust coat at work, covered in grease after hooking on and off a hundreds times in a couple of days.
There are 2 types of guards, those who work for a living and those that just go round in a nice warm train clipping tickets.
I do not need anyone to tell me how to go about working on the railway.
No rose tinted glasses for me just the free glasses I got from York every 2 years for nowt.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

There is no first class on the railway jobs that I performed. It would be hard to find a refreshment coach or Costa Coffee shop in 2 miles under the Pennine Chain in a single bore tunnel made in 1842.
For that matter preparing a ballast train half way between Garsdale and Dent Stations at 00:30hrs on a Sunday night in January in a gale.
Or sat in a tunnel up the Penistone Line with a crappy class 31, kicking out fumes that set the fire alarms off at Euston Station.
I have never been offered first class by any guard when travelling on a free pass, so I cant see what the fuss is about,.
The nearest I got was to sit on a pile of freshly printed news papers going from Manchester Vic to Dewsbury at 03:00hrs in the morning.
What I ate and drank was in my traps bag, and if I brought no snap that was that.
I wore a blue dust coat at work, covered in greas after hooking on and off a hundres times in a couple of days.
There are 2 types of guards, those who work for a living and those that just go round in a nice warm train clipping tickets.

Easy there m8, i'm still a GUARD, those days are long gone and good riddance, nostalgia is one thing, times change. just one thing tho, if my trains did have 1st class I would offer them to train crew when available.

 

[DJ_K666]

I wholeheartedly agree. I took the same route myself and now am doing the job that I used to dream about.

I'm working on it. The guy who encouraged me onto the buses has got through to a second interview with Southern. I'll probably apply once I get to 5 years on the buses next year. As well as this I have 8 years engineering experience (well it's toolmaking but the basic principles are similar) plus I'm used to working in safety critical environments and shift work with seriously unsociable hours. That should make my CV pretty juicy for a personnel manager to read. Just have to get practicing the aptitude tests and those damn dots things...

 

[Scotrail84]

Only ever done that once, to a drunk copper who told me and the rest of the carriage "I'll sit wherever the f*** I want". He didn't have a ticket at all, and belonged to a force that does not have travel privileges, but flashed his badge to do a two hour journey (on his way back after the football).

What a dafty as he could get his books for that.

Your quite right as nobody dictates to me what they will and wont do on my train!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Been offered upgrades twice when Conductors were aware I was a rail volunteer (I didn't ask, always offered after it being brought up in conversation) - one time I accepted, but paid for the 'free' food. The second, I refused on account of me not travelling!

Out of interest how do they know you are a volunteer? Did you tell them in hope they might ask if you want to sit in 1st?

 

[Mojo]

There is no first class on the railway jobs that I performed. It would be hard to find a refreshment coach or Costa Coffee shop in 2 miles under the Pennine Chain in a single bore tunnel made in 1842.
For that matter preparing a ballast train half way between Garsdale and Dent Stations at 00:30hrs on a Sunday night in January in a gale.
Or sat in a tunnel up the Penistone Line with a crappy class 31, kicking out fumes that set the fire alarms off at Euston Station.
I have never been offered first class by any guard when travelling on a free pass, so I cant see what the fuss is about,.
The nearest I got was to sit on a pile of freshly printed news papers going from Manchester Vic to Dewsbury at 03:00hrs in the morning.
What I ate and drank was in my traps bag, and if I brought no snap that was that.
I wore a blue dust coat at work, covered in grease after hooking on and off a hundreds times in a couple of days.
There are 2 types of guards, those who work for a living and those that just go round in a nice warm train clipping tickets.
I do not need anyone to tell me how to go about working on the railway.
No rose tinted glasses for me just the free glasses I got from York every 2 years for nowt.

Even worse though now is a new starter into that job (working for Network Rail) would get pretty much zilch in the way of travel benefits; a 70% discount on annual seasons and that's it!

 

[scotsman]

Out of interest how do they know you are a volunteer? Did you tell them in hope they might ask if you want to sit in 1st?

Got into a conversation with the Conductor, after I waited outside the (empty) toilet to show him my ticket when I saw him coming, so he knew I wasn't trying it on!

 

[RichmondCommu]

Easy there m8, i'm still a GUARD, those days are long gone and good riddance, nostalgia is one thing, times change. just one thing tho, if my trains did have 1st class I would offer them to train crew when available.

Thats fair enough but would you also offer them to a fare paying passenger who was standing in standard class due to a lack of seats? I'd like to think that you would.

I often wonder how many people with priviledge passes / tickets would offer their seat up to a fare paying passenger on a crowded train?

 

[cuccir]

I often wonder how many people with priviledge passes / tickets would offer their seat up to a fare paying passenger on a crowded train?

Why should they, beyond general decency (ie giving up seats to people who are less mobile) particularly if not in uniform? They're passengers the same as any other. You might as well ask if railcard holders should stand for full paying passengers, or off-peak ticket holders for anytime ticket holders?

 

[Flamingo]

Why should they, beyond general decency (ie giving up seats to people who are less mobile) particularly if not in uniform? They're passengers the same as any other. You might as well ask if railcard holders should stand for full paying passengers, or off-peak ticket holders for anytime ticket holders?

If a pass-holder (with the exception of retired passholders) you are expected to not only give up your seat for paying passengers, but move if required to facilitate parties to sit together. It's in the T&C of the passes.

Every so often on crowded trains, I will tell pass-holders (esp if in uniform) to stand up.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Thats fair enough but would you also offer them to a fare paying passenger who was standing in standard class due to a lack of seats? I'd like to think that you would.

I often wonder how many people with priviledge passes / tickets would offer their seat up to a fare paying passenger on a crowded train?

, now as our services don't have a 1st class, I don't know the rules etc. however if standard was full and 1st class seats were available you couldn't just allow one passenger in as then you would have to declassify 1st class ( or I would have thought), its not a perfect world BUT I am pretty fair to everyone

 

[Flamingo]

I'll rarely declassify 1st leaving London, because as a rule, about 1/4 - 1/3 of the passengers are leaving at Reading, 25 minutes down the track. After Reading, there will be seats, it'll just mean sitting beside a stranger. I'll only do it if there is major disruption and the sole aim is to shift as many bodies off the concourse in Pad as possible, to be honest.

On the way into London, the same, it'll only get to the no seats stage after Reading, if all is going to plan.

 

[jon0844]

If you take the executive decision to declassify first class, what happens to those who have FC tickets? When EC did that during disruption in February, they invited all those with FC tickets to seek the TM (presumably for a partial refund).

 

[Flamingo]

If they already have a 1st class seat, then they are getting what they paid for!

If they don't have a seat, then I'll endorse the ticket so they can get a refund of the difference between the STD and 1st ticket.

I can't give refunds, all I can do is tell them to get a claim form from a manned station or FGW website.

 

[jon0844]

I didn't mean you personally give a refund, but rather tell them how to go about getting a refund. I don't know the policy for EC, but heard the announcement made.

 

[Flamingo]

I didn't mean you personally give a refund, but rather tell them how to go about getting a refund. I don't know the policy for EC, but heard the announcement made.

OK, I was wondering!

 

[Tom B]

I understand that if First Class is declared "de-classified" (whether there is a difference between this and the guard letting a few folk in, I don't know) a first class passenger can claim the difference between his ticket and the equivalent standard ticket.

I too would hope that those guards who allow staff travelling on second class tickets into first class, or do not bother to collect fares from staff, treat passengers equally. It would be a little hypocritical for a guard to go around being extremely pedantic with all passengers except those on a specific (i.e. priv) ticket.

 

[jon0844]

I believe that this is the case with EC, but wonder if FCC offer refunds/rebates to passengers if they short form a commuter service and declassify FC.

As it is, many FC customers must put up with us plebs who can sit there legitimately as they're declassified in the timetable!

 

[bf2142]

...

3) Various XC and FCC coming off shift, forgetting that paying customer were trying to concentrate on their work, laughing and joking.

Since when did it become a problem for staff to have a laugh and joke? There is nothing unprofessional about that. In fact, I would much see jovial employees - they are clearly getting some enjoyment from their work. Unlike some people.

 

[Barn]

Since when did it become a problem for staff to have a laugh and joke? There is nothing unprofessional about that. In fact, I would much see jovial employees - they are clearly getting some enjoyment from their work. Unlike some people.

Nothing wrong. Just not in an area provided by their company to passengers who are paying a premium to be in an area that is supposed to be conducive to working / relaxing.

 

[GB]

So would it be different if it were fare paying customers laughing and joking?