Staff abusing 1st class travel privileges

[ANorthernGuard]

Surely if standard is crowded then taking yourself out of there benefits everyone!

Standard TOC rules, passengers always come first regarding travel, that and its good practice

 

[CNX]

The units I work only have a relatively small First Class compartment. I've never been a fan of seeing staff travelling in uniform in First Class. There are a few exceptions, but I generally don't like to do it and don't like seeing others do it. On larger trains with full FC carriages I don't see it as quite such a problem, but I think it should be done discretely when in uniform.

On a slightly different note, when staff are travelling out of uniform, off duty, I will often invite them to sit in First Class should space be available. What really, and I mean REALLY gets on my wick are those that just plonk themselves in FC automatically, without being invited, when they only have STD travel tickets or passes.

The ATOC are stict, at least officially, regarding the use of first class accommodation by standard class pass and privilege ticket holders. Below is an extract from their guidlines for RPI's regarding such matters.

_________________________________________________________________
EXAMPLES OF INSTANCES WHERE IT IS CONSIDERED THAT DISHONESTY IS NOT INVOLVED, AND PENALTIES RECOMMENDED
Travelling in 1st class accommodation when not entitled
 Active employees:
o To be dealt with under disciplinary procedures (where relevant)
o Withdrawal of travel facilities for not less than 1 year for the whole family
o Difference in fares to be collected where appropriate
 Spouses/partners or dependants:
o Individual to have travel facilities withdrawn for not less than 1 year
o Difference in fares to be collected where appropriate
 Retired safeguarded employees, spouses/partners, widow(er)s and dependants:
o Individual to have travel facilities withdrawn for not less than 1 year
o Difference in fares to be collected where appropriate
_________________________________________________________________

Would a guard who allowed such use of 1st class accommodation also be subject to disciplinary action?

Considering the penalties, standard class pass/priv ticket holders caught in first class by a potentially unsympathetic PRI would be better to grit their teeth, say they haven't got a ticket, cough up the full first class fare and not do it again! Probably far better than disciplinary action, a black mark on their staff record and at least 12 months loss of facilities. But not easy if the RPI knows you!

 

[Crapper]

I simply love sitting on the floor in the vestibule like a teenager (I'm in my mid 40s) because as per usual there are no seats available on my Crap Country 'service'. By the time I've got where I'm obliged to be going, I feel fresh and ready to drive my freight train the 200 miles back again. Maybe if the TOCs addressed the overcrowding issues, us 'scum' wouldn't feel the need to sit with the pompous ****s in Hooray Henry Class - to be honest, why would us underclass's want to anyway?

 

[Dolive22]

I sometimes dislike rail travel because the train doesn't go exactly where I want and I have to share the train. But my alternative is to drive. I usually choose to be propelled at up to 125 mph towards my destination while reading a book, even if I have to wait for 10 minutes at Doncaster between trains.

If you don't want to share with someone else, Virgin run a Limobike service (much better than the tube) and you can employ a driver. If however you don't want to (or can't) pay for that, you have to accept the public on public transport. If you don't want to hear your fellow travellers, try the quiet coach.

 

[stut]

If you don't want to share with someone else, Virgin run a Limobike service (much better than the tube) and you can employ a driver. If however you don't want to (or can't) pay for that, you have to accept the public on public transport. If you don't want to hear your fellow travellers, try the quiet coach.

Sorry, but sharing works both ways. As the saying goes "your right to swing your fist stops at the end of my nose". Nothing wrong with having a chat and a laugh, but simply to say "I paid for my ticket, I can behave how I like" is incredibly childish. In an environment where most people are working or reading (which, IME is most 1st class carriages on weekdays - and the reason why most people shell out for it), acting in a way that prevents this from happening is inconsiderate at best.

Also, could you point me to the operators that have quiet coaches in 1st class?

 

[Captain Chaos]

Also, could you point me to the operators that have quiet coaches in 1st class?

First Great Western have a 1st class quiet coach in Coach G and Virgin has a 1st class quiet coach in Coach H. Don't know of any others.

 

[stut]

First Great Western have a 1st class quiet coach in Coach G and Virgin has a 1st class quiet coach in Coach H. Don't know of any others.

Typical, the two operators I never get a chance to travel on

Glad to hear of it, though. A (properly enforced) quiet coach makes for a great journey in my mind...

 

[Dolive22]

Laughing and joking as the OP described is perfectly acceptable behaviour on a train outside a quiet coach.

I believe some TOCs have FC quiet coaches, but if not FC tickets are valid in standard.

With trains it's pot luck. Sometimes you get a table to yourself, sometimes you get a couple of seats to yourself, sometimes you get squashed by a fat passenger next to you, sometimes you're next to someone with a huge messy burger. Sometimes the table next to you has 2 parents and 5 kids, all noisy, sometimes the other 3 seats in your row are taken up by the most polite and law abiding Young Men in Tracksuit Bottoms And Hoodies you've ever met, sometimes the other half of the table is taken by two young men well in drink discussing how much you can fence copper for. I've been in most of those positions since January, including 4 in one return trip and two at once. I was even the guy with the burger once. You take that risk when you use the train. That's why I'm not actually that keen on public transport. But given my income doesn't stretch to a driver, the only time I get to read is on the train and I am too scared to drive on motorways, I don't have much choice.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Having seen the replies written while I was writing mine, I should add I think some East Coast TOC out of KX have a FC quiet coach so if you want that it might be worth asking or ringing.

 

[stut]

Laughing and joking as the OP described is perfectly acceptable behaviour on a train outside a quiet coach.

I disagree - it's all about circumstances. If you go into a carriage where everybody else is working, it's at least respectful to keep your voice down when you're chatting.

I believe some TOCs have FC quiet coaches, but if not FC tickets are valid in standard.

So passengers should downgrade themselves if they can't work because of some loudmouth? I don't think so.

With trains it's pot luck. Sometimes you get a table to yourself, sometimes you get a couple of seats to yourself, sometimes you get squashed by a fat passenger next to you, sometimes you're next to someone with a huge messy burger. Sometimes the table next to you has 2 parents and 5 kids, all noisy, sometimes the other 3 seats in your row are taken up by the most polite and law abiding Young Men in Tracksuit Bottoms And Hoodies you've ever met, sometimes the other half of the table is taken by two young men well in drink discussing how much you can fence copper for. I've been in most of those positions since January, including 4 in one return trip and two at once. I was even the guy with the burger once. You take that risk when you use the train. That's why I'm not actually that keen on public transport. But given my income doesn't stretch to a driver, the only time I get to read is on the train and I am too scared to drive on motorways, I don't have much choice.

Not my experience, personally, with the odd exception (typically weekend evening trains). However "other people are doing it" isn't an excuse to act in a certain way.

And actually, it's the "me me me" attitude on the roads that makes me prefer taking the train!

Having seen the replies written while I was writing mine, I should add I think some East Coast TOC out of KX have a FC quiet coach so if you want that it might be worth asking or ringing.

I don't believe they do.

 

[Greenback]

I have no problem with people laughing, joking or having a loud conversation on a train provided it;s not ina quiet coach, the subject matter is not vulgar or distasteful, and it is not so loud that it cna be heard in the next carriage.

But it is slightly different when you have a group of rail staff, in full uniform, each taking up a bay of two or four seats, doing these things. It looks unprofessional, and i fin uniform they should not behave in such a way.

 

[1V53]

As a member of rail staff I can't disagree with that post

 

[Greenback]

I think it applies whether you are in FC or standard.

Don't worry 1V53, I've never seen any of that sort of thing on ATW trains! Whenever I've sat near uniformed staff in South Wales they have been very quiet!

 

[YorkshireRider]

Having seen the replies written while I was writing mine, I should add I think some East Coast TOC out of KX have a FC quiet coach so if you want that it might be worth asking or ringing.

Currently on EC the only quiet coach is std class coach B, however that will change from May 22nd as they are to also introduce a quiet coach in FC, which i believe will be coach K on mark IVs and coach J on HSTs

 

[stut]

Currently on EC the only quiet coach is std class coach B, however that will change from May 22nd as they are to also introduce a quiet coach in FC, which i believe will be coach K on mark IVs and coach J on HSTs

Yay! Good news.

 

[Captain Chaos]

Currently on EC the only quiet coach is std class coach B, however that will change from May 22nd as they are to also introduce a quiet coach in FC, which i believe will be coach K on mark IVs and coach J on HSTs

It's about time if you asked me. It has always mystified me why they don't. Not that I tend to use the Quiet coach anyway. I tend to like listening to music or use my laptop on long distance journeys. It's nice to know that there is such a place to go to though if you do want a bit of peace and quiet to read a book though.

 

[Fred26]

I thought intercity first class was always quiet.

 

[YorkshireRider]

It usually is Fred but customer feedback says that many would like a mobile free FC coach.

To back to the OPs point there will be a glass partitioned off area at the north end of FC for staff to sit and rest and chat on all services from May 22 also.

 

[Aictos]

It usually is Fred but customer feedback says that many would like a mobile free FC coach.

To back to the OPs point there will be a glass partitioned off area at the north end of FC for staff to sit and rest and chat on all services from May 22 also.

This being restricted to East Coast staff in this area or can other TOC staff use it bar permission from train crew?

 

[Crapper]

It's nice to know that there is such a place to go to though if you do want a bit of peace and quiet to read a book though.

You are joking aren't you? I almost always head for the quiet coach. Within seconds of sitting down, some moron will start making a phone call, hammer away on a laptop, sit down with an iPod blaring away or as was the case this afternoon on the 14.47 from Reading to Bournemouth have a bunch of cackling hags conduct a conversation at top volume whilst sitting half a coach length away from each other.

As any frequent user of Crap Country between Bournemouth/Reading and Birmingham will tell you - there is NEVER such a thing as a 'quiet' coach, and there are frequently no seats either. Which is why even though I am fortunate to have full 'Priv' facilities, whenever I take a leisure-time journey that would necessitate using Crap Country (or anyone's Voyagers), I would rather fill the car up and drive instead.

 

[Eddie]

QUOTE=1V53;599928]Staff are overpaid and shouldn't have any perks! In fact they should be pulled behind the train in a little box on wheels to segregate them, AND be charged for the privilege! I think it's disgusting that they should enjoy themselves and be happy too. Vermin the lot of them.

First class is for the well heeled in society. Those on say less than £100k shouldn't be able to come within a carriage of it. The problem is these commoners simply have no decorum.[/QUOTE]

1V53..you are a character ...i guess your just waiting for numerous staff to rise to the bait ..but consider this ..perhaps those staff that are sitting in first Class might actually be the onboard team that are employed to serve the upper class their free tea /coffee and dont forget the free glasses of wine they get to unwind after a busyday making loads of money for us less priviledged folk who have to suffer screaming kids in standard ..regards eddie .

 

[ainsworth74]

1V53..you are a character ...i guess your just waiting for numerous staff to rise to the bait

I'm not quite sure why 1V53 would be baiting rail staff seeing as they are a guard on ATW

 

[GB]

He is not baiting staff, he said it in jest due to comments made by others in other threads and as pointed out above, he is staff himself.

But I guess that is not to be known unless you have read said threads previously.

 

[stut]

You are joking aren't you? I almost always head for the quiet coach. Within seconds of sitting down, some moron will start making a phone call, hammer away on a laptop, sit down with an iPod blaring away or as was the case this afternoon on the 14.47 from Reading to Bournemouth have a bunch of cackling hags conduct a conversation at top volume whilst sitting half a coach length away from each other.

And yet, people just sit there fuming. The reason that people behave like this is because nobody ever wants to make a fuss, instead imagining all sorts of terrible things that will happen to them if they do.

 

[Sir Topham Hat]

As 1V53 said in an earlier post, there's a mutual understanding between staff from most TOC's that we can travel on each others services, providing we ask first and don't presume and behave in a respectful manner. On services that offer First Class we are often told to 'get yourself in First Class mate'. Is it not fair for us to have the odd perk now and again? As long as we respect our fellow passengers I don't see a problem with it. After all, if there was an incident on the train we'd be the first people to offer our assistance.

 

[Barn]

Surely it's technically stealing from your employers?

 

[Sir Topham Hat]

Surely it's technically stealing from your employers?

Stealing what exactly?!

 

[Barn]

In the same way that a non-staff member would be if they sat in first with a standard class ticket.

 

[Sir Topham Hat]

In the same way that a non-staff member would be if they sat in first with a standard class ticket.

The difference is though we've been given permission by the Train Manager/Senior Conductor and aren't trying to 'fare dodge'. I always sit in Standard Class unless I'm told otherwise. I was on a Virgin service recently and declined the offer of First Class as I was happy where I was at the time.

 

[Barn]

The difference is though we've been given permission by the Train Manager/Senior Conductor and aren't trying to 'fare dodge'.

But deep down you know that the conductor doesn't have authority from his employer to do that.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

But deep down you know that the conductor doesn't have authority from his employer to do that.

I think you'll find the conductor does.