Spotters Trespassing

[the sniper]

What happened to the driver that permitted the intruder into the cab?

I have no idea, but what could they do? Do you check the Authority to Work Trains card of anybody you don't recognise that relieves you?

 

[PermitToTravel]

That's a good point, although I wonder if the real driver was nevertheless reprimanded for not checking?

Not that he should have been, of course.

I can't see the unions bending over and taking that, can you?

 

[TDK]

I have no idea, but what could they do? Do you check the Authority to Work Trains card of anybody you don't recognise that relieves you?

Many years ago I stopped at Hereford and was asked if I could be joined by a road learner in an EWS uniform with a drivers bag and a video camera, he wanted to video the route to Crewe, I asked him for his cab pass and he said his manager wasn't available to issue it but he was a driver, I told him that he couldn't travel, he then said boil in the bag drivers ****** him off, I had been driving for 4 years, hardly a so called boil in the bag. The next service that came in the driver let him in, before the train had even moved a BTP officer and 2 network rail guys appeared and asked the road learner for his identification, name and depot, he was a spotter that had acquired a uniform, he was carted away and I also found out that the BTP officer and NR staff had been tipped off. The train was cancelled and the driver was taken off driving duties, lost his clean record and also retrained on Cab passes and checking ID. I still wonder why the BTP officer and the NR staff didn't warn my companies control, I suppose they needed to catch the guy in the act at the drivers expense.

I know this is different from the scenario with the spotter mimicking a driver etc. but this is why I wondered if anyone knew what had happened to the driver in this case.

 

[BestWestern]

I have no idea, but what could they do? Do you check the Authority to Work Trains card of anybody you don't recognise that relieves you?

Most crew would simply accept that a uniformed staff member, seemingly of the appropriate grade, was qualified to relieve them. The point here is how did he manage not to cross tracks with the genuine relieving Driver, assuming it was a booked crew change? If it wasn't a booked changeover then I would expect most crew to phone their control and confirm what is going on.

How far did our imposter manage to get?

 

[Minilad]

I am wondering if this imposter thing ever actually happened. Sounds far fetched to me and google isn't coming up with anything at all.

 

[GatwickDepress]

I am wondering if this imposter thing ever actually happened. Sounds far fetched to me and google isn't coming up with anything at all.

If this happened, I doubt this is the sort of incident that would have been publicly released; especially during a period when Connex was pretty much a byword for incompetence and disastrous performance. Releasing that would have likely resulted in Kent & Sussex MPs calling for a political roasting...

 

[Llanigraham]

The point is that drivers do inevitably stray over a 30mph limit and obviously doing 35mph is far less serious than doing 70mph. Likewise committing a minor trespass offence isn't quite as serious as recklessly endangering the safety of all and sundry. Sometimes a bit of perspective is needed.

Wrong AGAIN.
If someone is trespassing on railway property they they are committing a Criminal act and are likely to cause the an amount of delays and work for us PROFESSIONAL rail staff, because trains will get delayed and staff needed to rectify their illegality. That has been stated previously.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

There is one other safety issue here - when I am watching a trespasser I have taken my eye of the track ahead and many drivers will lose concentration momentarily, you also have to call the signaller with the GSMR using the priority or emergency call all depending on the situation and this in turn will cause a driver to lose concentration on the job at hand.

I reported a trespasser approaching Warrington a few months back and also another at Frodsham, both occasions I hade to shut the power off and brake the train and at the same time look for a reference point for an exact location, also I am slowing for the station and watching signals, the signaller taking the call from the driver will also go through the same distraction and may inadvertently hold a signal at red that another driver may pass. This sets up a risk that could under some circumstances cause an incident where the driver will need to be spoken to, taken off track and possibly specially monitored all because a spotter wanted a better picture. Sorry but this sort of thing needs to stop and those trespassing should be named, shamed and prosecuted.

While you good guys are out and about maybe if you see trespasser take a snap shot of them and post it on here if that is legal

Well said.
Something the (so called) railway enthusiasts don't take into account!

 

[neilmc]

Wrong AGAIN.
If someone is trespassing on railway property they they are committing a Criminal act and are likely to cause the an amount of delays and work for us PROFESSIONAL rail staff, because trains will get delayed and staff needed to rectify their illegality. That has been stated previously.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Well said.
Something the (so called) railway enthusiasts don't take into account!

Well, in the days when we had genuine PROFESSIONAL rail staff, especially in the final days of steam, linesides and engine sheds were full of railway enthusiasts, photographers and even curious members of the public casually walking around on railway property and I don't recall any delays, any allegations of criminality or anyone getting run over though of course if they had it would have just been their own silly fault. It wasn't unknown for drivers to offer enthusiasts lifts in loco cabs and nobody crashed a train and nobody got sacked AFAIK (well, they were often being made redundant and past caring). Better days! I'm glad neither of my boys have ever had any interest in the railways as they are today.

 

[Minilad]

If this happened, I doubt this is the sort of incident that would have been publicly released; especially during a period when Connex was pretty much a byword for incompetence and disastrous performance. Releasing that would have likely resulted in Kent & Sussex MPs calling for a political roasting...

The poster who originally mentioned it said the person was criminally charged. That would have made they news. Or at least court reports. I doubt they could have stopped that getting out

 

[Rugd1022]

There is one other safety issue here - when I am watching a trespasser I have taken my eye of the track ahead and many drivers will lose concentration momentarily, you also have to call the signaller with the GSMR using the priority or emergency call all depending on the situation and this in turn will cause a driver to lose concentration on the job at hand.

I reported a trespasser approaching Warrington a few months back and also another at Frodsham, both occasions I hade to shut the power off and brake the train and at the same time look for a reference point for an exact location, also I am slowing for the station and watching signals, the signaller taking the call from the driver will also go through the same distraction and may inadvertently hold a signal at red that another driver may pass. This sets up a risk that could under some circumstances cause an incident where the driver will need to be spoken to, taken off track and possibly specially monitored all because a spotter wanted a better picture. Sorry but this sort of thing needs to stop and those trespassing should be named, shamed and prosecuted.

While you good guys are out and about maybe if you see trespasser take a snap shot of them and post it on here if that is legal

Well put TDK, post of the week

 

[Llanigraham]

Well, in the days when we had genuine PROFESSIONAL rail staff, especially in the final days of steam, linesides and engine sheds were full of railway enthusiasts, photographers and even curious members of the public casually walking around on railway property and I don't recall any delays, any allegations of criminality or anyone getting run over though of course if they had it would have just been their own silly fault. It wasn't unknown for drivers to offer enthusiasts lifts in loco cabs and nobody crashed a train and nobody got sacked AFAIK (well, they were often being made redundant and past caring). Better days! I'm glad neither of my boys have ever had any interest in the railways as they are today.

Nice to know that because I joined NR in the last 10 years I'm not a PROFESSIONAL railway worker!!

 

[DarloRich]

Well, in the days when we had genuine PROFESSIONAL rail staff, especially in the final days of steam, linesides and engine sheds were full of railway enthusiasts, photographers and even curious members of the public casually walking around on railway property and I don't recall any delays, any allegations of criminality or anyone getting run over though of course if they had it would have just been their own silly fault. It wasn't unknown for drivers to offer enthusiasts lifts in loco cabs and nobody crashed a train and nobody got sacked AFAIK (well, they were often being made redundant and past caring). Better days! I'm glad neither of my boys have ever had any interest in the railways as they are today.

thanks for that - seems no one who works/has worked or will work for "the railway" since the end of steam can be considered a professional. cheers :roll:

utter wibble

 

[DaleCooper]

Well, in the days when we had genuine PROFESSIONAL rail staff, especially in the final days of steam, linesides and engine sheds were full of railway enthusiasts, photographers and even curious members of the public casually walking around on railway property and I don't recall any delays, any allegations of criminality or anyone getting run over though of course if they had it would have just been their own silly fault. It wasn't unknown for drivers to offer enthusiasts lifts in loco cabs and nobody crashed a train and nobody got sacked AFAIK (well, they were often being made redundant and past caring). Better days! I'm glad neither of my boys have ever had any interest in the railways as they are today.

This must be a new use of the word "professional", here it's being used as a synonym for irresponsible, negligent or foolhardy

 

[Antman]

Wrong AGAIN.
If someone is trespassing on railway property they they are committing a Criminal act and are likely to cause the an amount of delays and work for us PROFESSIONAL rail staff, because trains will get delayed and staff needed to rectify their illegality. That has been stated previously.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Well said.
Something the (so called) railway enthusiasts don't take into account!

You can SHOUT all you like.............but it doesn't make you right

 

[Darandio]

You can SHOUT all you like.............but it doesn't make you right

But he is right?

 

[Antman]

I am wondering if this imposter thing ever actually happened. Sounds far fetched to me and google isn't coming up with anything at all.

I did hear a story of something similar at Dartford some years ago but how true it is I don't know.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

But he is right?

If you say so.........now shall we move on?

 

[carriageline]

Nice to know that because I joined NR in the last 10 years I'm not a PROFESSIONAL railway worker!!

None of what he quotes sounds professional to me at all.

 

[Flamingo]

This thread does seem to attracting all the nutjobs masquerading as Rail Enthusiasts...

 

[Antman]

None of what he quotes sounds professional to me at all.

Who quotes?

 

[GB]

I did hear a story of something similar at Dartford some years ago but how true it is I don't know.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


If you say so.........now shall we move on?

Its the law makers that say so

Railway Offences
Such offences will involve using a variety of statutory offences dating back to the 1840s.

The Regulation of Railways Acts 1840-1873: "railway" extends to all railways constructed under the powers of any Act of Parliament and intended for the conveyance of passengers in or upon carriages drawn or impelled by the power of steam or by any other mechanical power; and the word "company" included the proprietors for the time being of any such railway (section 21 Railway Regulation Act 1840).

References in sections 54-57 of the British Transport Commission Act 1949 shall include references to any successor of the British Railways Board.

Top of page

Railway Trespass
Several summary offences deal with this (Stones 7-7041):

Section 16 Railway Regulation Act 1840: it is an offence to wilfully trespass on any railway or premises connected therewith and to refuse to leave when asked to do so by any officer or agent of the railway company. 'Wilfulness' can be proved by the refusal to leave. The offence is punishable by one month's imprisonment
Section 23 Regulation of the Railways Act 1868: this prohibits passage upon or across any railway line except for the purpose of crossing the line at an authorised point. A person commits an offence by so doing after having once received warning by the railway company, their servants or agents, to desist
Section 55 British Transport Commission Act 1949: this penalises trespass on railway lines or property in dangerous proximity to such lines or electrical apparatus. Evidence is required of a notice exhibited at the station nearest the place of offence providing a clear public warning not to trespass on a railway. Punishable by a fine.

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/p_to_r/road_traffic_offences_transport_offences/#trespass

 

[edwin_m]

Likewise committing a minor trespass offence isn't quite as serious as recklessly endangering the safety of all and sundry. Sometimes a bit of perspective is needed.

At the risk of taking my share of the flaming, the above statement is correct.

Nobody is saying trespass is totally safe, and clearly there is a small but non-zero possibility of it causing someone some distraction leading to worse. But there are far worse things that can happen if people get nearer the track, which will also cause far more distress to the rail staff who have to deal with them.

 

[Antman]

This thread does seem to attracting all the nutjobs masquerading as Rail Enthusiasts...

I thought 'nut jobs' and rail enthusiasts were one and the same thing?

 

[Llanigraham]

This thread does seem to attracting all the nutjobs masquerading as Rail Enthusiasts...

And internet trolls!

For information to those that doubt it, I am a PROFESSIONAL mechanical signaller, employed by Network Rail, on the borders of England and Wales.
I am not a railway fanatic.
I do know my Rule Book.

:roll:

 

[Antman]

And internet trolls!

For information to those that doubt it, I am a PROFESSIONAL mechanical signaller, employed by Network Rail, on the borders of England and Wales.
I am not a railway fanatic.
I do know my Rule Book.

:roll:

It might suprise you to know that a good friend of mine is a BTP officer and he doesn't generally disagree with me.

 

[neilmc]

This must be a new use of the word "professional", here it's being used as a synonym for irresponsible, negligent or foolhardy

They were professional in the sense that most of them were older men who had given a lifetime of service to the railway, and got very shabbily treated at the time. It's amazing looking back how many would, for example, willingly let kids wander round loco depots, supposedly a "dangerous environment", because of the common bond they shared. Also the railway police seemed to have very little enthusiasm in rounding up and prosecuting anyone the wrong side of the fence unless they were clearly up to mischief. Mind you, I never heard of the extent of cable theft or rail-induced suicides that seem so commonplace today.

 

[DaleCooper]

They were professional in the sense that most of them were older men who had given a lifetime of service to the railway, and got very shabbily treated at the time. It's amazing looking back how many would, for example, willingly let kids wander round loco depots, supposedly a "dangerous environment", because of the common bond they shared. Also the railway police seemed to have very little enthusiasm in rounding up and prosecuting anyone the wrong side of the fence unless they were clearly up to mischief. Mind you, I never heard of the extent of cable theft or rail-induced suicides that seem so commonplace today.

I wasn't intending to disparage those older railwaymen it was just my way of commenting on the posters insult to today's railwaymen.

 

[Llanigraham]

Editted !

 

[Merseysider]

what has bickering over professionalism got to do with spotters trespassing? :roll:

 

[Robertj21a]

what has bickering over professionalism got to do with spotters trespassing? :roll:

Yes, not very professional is it ?

 

[Clip]

what has bickering over professionalism got to do with spotters trespassing? :roll:

Well this poster seems to think that the only professional railway men were those who let spotters round there yards and sheds

Well, in the days when we had genuine PROFESSIONAL rail staff, especially in the final days of steam, linesides and engine sheds were full of railway enthusiasts, photographers and even curious members of the public casually walking around on railway property and I don't recall any delays, any allegations of criminality or anyone getting run over though of course if they had it would have just been their own silly fault. It wasn't unknown for drivers to offer enthusiasts lifts in loco cabs and nobody crashed a train and nobody got sacked AFAIK (well, they were often being made redundant and past caring). Better days! I'm glad neither of my boys have ever had any interest in the railways as they are today.

Sadly it seems none of us are professionals nowadays because we restrict the spotters and enthusiasts from doing this.