Spotters Trespassing

[Flamingo]

Well if that really is all you've got to worry about.........................

That is exactly my point - I have enough to worry about. Trying to work out which guy in the hi-vis with his arms up is the dispatcher or an over-excited spotter is one worry I don't need...

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Many autistic people like trains and wave their arms about in a repetitive fashion with excitement. They are usually quite harmless and do not put themselves (and others) in danger.

 

[Merseysider]

Many autistic people like trains and wave their arms about in a repetitive fashion with excitement. They are usually quite harmless and do not put themselves (and others) in danger.

People with severe autism will often have someone with them, so are not the ones we need to worry about getting too close to the track. Severely autistic people are not normally the ones dressed up in hi vis jackets either.

In addition, flailing is sometimes involuntary and is completely different to some saddo gesturing at the driver in the hope of a completely uneccesary use of the horn.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

People with severe autism will often have someone with them, so are not the ones we need to worry about getting too close to the track. Severely autistic people are not normally the ones dressed up in hi vis jackets either.

In addition, flailing is sometimes involuntary and is completely different to some saddo gesturing at the driver in the hope of a completely uneccesary use of the horn.

Where did I mention severe autism!? These people would not generally be out on their own - let alone trainspotting.

It's generally those with mild autism who function independently in life - these are the ones I was talking about.

 

[A-driver]

Whilst I see the point that is being made, I fail to see your comparison.

I am not aware of it being a criminal offence to impersonate a railway worker, where as it is a criminal offence to impersonate a police officer.







It's a motion that includes moving the arm up and down with a closed fist. As one would when pulling a whistle chain on a steam locomotive.

Not a criminal offence in this scenario but the chap who bought full uniform from somewhere then releaved a driver at Gatwick and drive his train to London despite having never worked on the railway was certainly criminally charged.

 

[Flamingo]

Not a criminal offence in this scenario but the chap who bought full uniform from somewhere then releaved a driver at Gatwick and drive his train to London despite having never worked on the railway was certainly criminally charged.

hock:hock:hock:hock: when did that happen?

 

[A-driver]

hock:hock:hock:hock: when did that happen?

A few years back. Connex days I believe. He had learnt the roads for a number of weeks previous before handing over a master key and taking the unit off a driver at Gatwick.

 

[dwaynedibleyuk]

Speaking as someone who has had to respond to a trespasser struck by a train and then clean up the aftermath, I believe it should be treated very seriously. I do not appreciate being regularly called to search a section of line for a trespasser, putting myself, my colleagues and the police in danger just so some idiot can do what they please on the railway. I had to have extensive training to do what I do, and have to implement a safe system of work every time I go on or near the line for a reason. It's rather dangerous out there!

 

[Llanigraham]

Speaking as someone who has had to respond to a trespasser struck by a train and then clean up the aftermath, I believe it should be treated very seriously. I do not appreciate being regularly called to search a section of line for a trespasser, putting myself, my colleagues and the police in danger just so some idiot can do what they please on the railway. I had to have extensive training to do what I do, and have to implement a safe system of work every time I go on or near the line for a reason. It's rather dangerous out there!

Quite, but there are one or two on here who don't seem to understand that!

 

[RichmondCommu]

Whilst I see the point that is being made, I fail to see your comparison.
I am not aware of it being a criminal offence to impersonate a railway worker, where as it is a criminal offence to impersonate a police officer.

However why on earth would anyone choose to try and impersonate a railway worker?
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Going back to the original topic, and how highly dangerous these enthusiasts are, can anyone provide any statistics on the number of trespassing railway enthusiasts who have been seriously injured or killed by a train?

I'd be interested to know how you would differentiate between a trespasser who has been killed on the railway (and I dare say there have been a few :cry and a trespassing rail enthusiast who has been killed on the railway.
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Are they?

I've no idea why they want to wear hi viz tops but I don't see it as a major problem..................it won't be long before we all have to wear a hi viz everytime we set foot outside the house anyway

Well in that case their growth must have been stunted because they certainly looked older than say 15.
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Well if that really is all you've got to worry about.........................
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Whether they are idiots or not is entirely subjective.........................I'd be more concerned about yobs hurling missiles at passing trains. And who knows whilst they are standing on the platforms doing "that ridiculous arm action" they might notice cable thieves, terrorists or goodness knows what!

Too much grumpy old man syndrome on here I think!

Either that or railway industry professionals who are fed up with interfering railway enthusiasts. Just out of interest how many cable thieves operate during day light hours?

 

[theblackwatch]

I'd be interested to know how you would differentiate between a trespasser who has been killed on the railway (and I dare say there have been a few :cry and a trespassing rail enthusiast who has been killed on the railway.

Well the OP managed to differentiate....

There does appear to be a view from some that any trespasser is the same risk as another and it is just as important to go after the guy 20 yards away from the track but the wrong side of the fence as the child playing 'chicken' on the rails. However, in my view, it would be a bit like considering that someone travelling at 35 mph in a '30' zone is just as dangerous as someone driving at 70 mph in it.

 

[RichmondCommu]

Well the OP managed to differentiate....

There does appear to be a view from some that any trespasser is the same risk as another and it is just as important to go after the guy 20 yards away from the track but the wrong side of the fence as the child playing 'chicken' on the rails. However, in my view, it would be a bit like considering that someone travelling at 35 mph in a '30' zone is just as dangerous as someone driving at 70 mph in it.

Well yes that's a good point! However if some poor soul is hit by a train and there are limbs everywhere I would suggest that it would be much harder to tell whether they were an enthusiast or not. Which in all fairness is the question that you asked.

In terms of 35 mph against 30 mph the extra 5 mph can kill a child. I'm sorry but there is never a good reason to exceed 30 mph and the consequences can be fatal.

If say you are a rail enthusiast on the wrong side of the fence and perched on an embankment, if you are that reckless to have done it in the first place who is to say that you won't slip, fall on to the track and get killed?

 

[deltic1989]

Not a criminal offence in this scenario but the chap who bought full uniform from somewhere then releaved a driver at Gatwick and drive his train to London despite having never worked on the railway was certainly criminally charged.

Yes, I can certainly see your point, that is definately not good.

 

[Antman]

Well yes that's a good point! However if some poor soul is hit by a train and there are limbs everywhere I would suggest that it would be much harder to tell whether they were an enthusiast or not. Which in all fairness is the question that you asked.

In terms of 35 mph against 30 mph the extra 5 mph can kill a child. I'm sorry but there is never a good reason to exceed 30 mph and the consequences can be fatal.

If say you are a rail enthusiast on the wrong side of the fence and perched on an embankment, if you are that reckless to have done it in the first place who is to say that you won't slip, fall on to the track and get killed?

The point is that drivers do inevitably stray over a 30mph limit and obviously doing 35mph is far less serious than doing 70mph. Likewise committing a minor trespass offence isn't quite as serious as recklessly endangering the safety of all and sundry. Sometimes a bit of perspective is needed.

 

[TDK]

Well if that really is all you've got to worry about.........................
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Whether they are idiots or not is entirely subjective.........................I'd be more concerned about yobs hurling missiles at passing trains. And who knows whilst they are standing on the platforms doing "that ridiculous arm action" they might notice cable thieves, terrorists or goodness knows what!

Too much grumpy old man syndrome on here I think!

This is vague answer - anyone at any time could notice cable thieves, terrorists or goodness knows what - sorry those moving their arm up and down to get a driver to sound the horn are idiots and yes I am a grumpy old man but am not an idiot.
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They are more likely to notice any suspicious activity than the average passenger, and are they really likely to delay trains? Isn't this getting just a bit far fetched?

The thread is about trespassers and they delay trains
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No I am NOT a railway worker and I have NOT condoned trespassing.

As for the rules, I wasn't aware of any dress code for being on a platform.

Are you one of these spotters who trespass, wear HV clothing or move your arm up and down? You seem to be defending trespassers with your replies.

 

[Antman]

This is vague answer - anyone at any time could notice cable thieves, terrorists or goodness knows what - sorry those moving their arm up and down to get a driver to sound the horn are idiots and yes I am a grumpy old man but am not an idiot.
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The thread is about trespassers and they delay trains
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Are you one of these spotters who trespass, wear HV clothing or move your arm up and down? You seem to be defending trespassers with your replies.

No I am not, I am just genuinely at a loss to understand how and why some people get so worked up about them!

And I haven't defended trespassers

 

[PermitToTravel]

Not a criminal offence in this scenario but the chap who bought full uniform from somewhere then releaved a driver at Gatwick and drive his train to London despite having never worked on the railway was certainly criminally charged.

Holy ****ing **** that's utterly hilarious!!! Points for style, though how on earth was he planning on getting away when the real replacement driver realised his train had been pinched? High speed police chase?

 

[Merseysider]

No I am not, I am just genuinely at a loss to understand how and why some people get so worked up about them!

Think of it as driving down a motorway to see some idiot dressed up as a traffic warden prancing around next to the hard shoulder, gesturing at lorries to beep their horn.

Would that be alright?
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Holy ****ing **** that's utterly hilarious!!! Points for style, though how on earth was he planning on getting away when the real replacement driver realised his train had been pinched? High speed police chase?

Maybe by surfing on top of another train

 

[TDK]

There is one other safety issue here - when I am watching a trespasser I have taken my eye of the track ahead and many drivers will lose concentration momentarily, you also have to call the signaller with the GSMR using the priority or emergency call all depending on the situation and this in turn will cause a driver to lose concentration on the job at hand.

I reported a trespasser approaching Warrington a few months back and also another at Frodsham, both occasions I hade to shut the power off and brake the train and at the same time look for a reference point for an exact location, also I am slowing for the station and watching signals, the signaller taking the call from the driver will also go through the same distraction and may inadvertently hold a signal at red that another driver may pass. This sets up a risk that could under some circumstances cause an incident where the driver will need to be spoken to, taken off track and possibly specially monitored all because a spotter wanted a better picture. Sorry but this sort of thing needs to stop and those trespassing should be named, shamed and prosecuted.

While you good guys are out and about maybe if you see trespasser take a snap shot of them and post it on here if that is legal

 

[Antman]

Think of it as driving down a motorway to see some idiot dressed up as a traffic warden prancing around next to the hard shoulder, gesturing at lorries to beep their horn.

Would that be alright?

Well it wouldn't particularly bother me although standing on the hard shoulder of a motorway would be a bit more dangerous than a railway station platform.

 

[TDK]

No I am not, I am just genuinely at a loss to understand how and why some people get so worked up about them!

And I haven't defended trespassers

Read my post above and you have a better idea why!

 

[PermitToTravel]

Well it wouldn't particularly bother me although standing on the hard shoulder of a motorway would be a bit more dangerous than a railway station platform.

It might look a lot like they're giving an emergency stop signal - less so on the railways where one is well defined as involving both arms, but there's still a chance that someone could think they're giving a handsignal of some description.

 

[Antman]

Holy ****ing **** that's utterly hilarious!!! Points for style, though how on earth was he planning on getting away when the real replacement driver realised his train had been pinched? High speed police chase?

Well maybe it is all rather amusing seeing as nobody was injured but it doesn't bear thinking about what could have happened.

 

[PermitToTravel]

Indeed, in reality it's quite scary that someone can do that. But still very funny.

It's also rather lucky that the miscreant in this case seems to have been (relatively!) innocuous - that could quite easily have been a terrorist attack.

 

[TDK]

Indeed, in reality it's quite scary that someone can do that. But still very funny.

It's also rather lucky that the miscreant in this case seems to have been (relatively!) innocuous - that could quite easily have been a terrorist attack.

What happened to the driver that permitted the intruder into the cab?

 

[PermitToTravel]

I wonder if he did anything wrong - you'd obviously know better than I, but I can't imagine he's expected to know every driver on his routes, or ask to inspect a cab pass when being relieved?

 

[carriageline]

No I am not, I am just genuinely at a loss to understand how and why some people get so worked up about them!



And I haven't defended trespassers

There's a surprise. Conveniently ignored questions poised to you!

 

[Antman]

There's a surprise. Conveniently ignored questions poised to you!

What question?

 

[Morden Via CHX]

Not a criminal offence in this scenario but the chap who bought full uniform from somewhere then releaved a driver at Gatwick and drive his train to London despite having never worked on the railway was certainly criminally charged.

That is unbelievable. Was the driver who swapped with him in any trouble? Would he have been expected to realise?

 

[Merseysider]

I wonder if he did anything wrong - you'd obviously know better than I, but I can't imagine he's expected to know every driver on his routes, or ask to inspect a cab pass when being relieved?

That's a good point, although I wonder if the real driver was nevertheless reprimanded for not checking?

Not that he should have been, of course.