Spotters Trespassing

[Rugd1022]

They wear this to get the driver to sound the horn for their videos
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Another thing that should happen is the delay cost should go to the people who are trespassing because when you report a trespasser normally the signaller will request all trains to precede with caution past the area and this can and usually does cost thousands in delay costs. I have seen this far too often and think that large fines should be implemented to ensure the spotters think twice about trespassing again.

Thing is, what some of them perhaps don't realise is that we're not required to sound the horn on sighting orange clad staff standing on a platform!

(Disclaimer - that doesn't stop me sounding the horn if I think they're too close to the platform edge or wielding a large tool which might come into contact with the front of my loco ).

 

[Antman]

I do disagree with BTP's decision-making on occassion ... but the response does very much vary depending on what else is going on in the area and what resource is available.

However, both trespass and D&D are serious issues for the railway. York on a Saturday night can be a nightmare to work, but not everyone who is technically committing a byelaw offence can be arrested - there'd soon be no cells left. The real issue is the publicans in York continuing to servce numerous folk when they are clearly intoxicated.

BTP and the TOCs are having a crackdown and York tonight with extra resources. Unfortunately, the problem won't be easily fixed.

Drunks and trains don't mix, but neither do trespassers - especially those who think they have the right to wander all over the railway just for the 'perfect' photo.

I think it would be the same with any police force with response depending on what else was happening and what resources were available. As you say not everybody who has committed an offence can be arrested at busy times and the police do have other options such as fixed penalty fines and dispersal orders.

I don't agree with blaming publicans, I think it is up to each individual to know when they've had enough to drink and the vast majority do consume sensible amounts and don't cause any problems.

 

[Jamesb1974]

(Disclaimer - that doesn't stop me sounding the horn if I think they're too close to the platform edge or wielding a large tool which might come into contact with the front of my loco ).

 

[Bevan Price]

I am not defending trespass - it must be a nightmare when a driver spots anyone too close to the track, and dreads that they might jump in front of a train.

But why does UK bother so much about trespass when elsewhere in Europe there are often (but not always) no fences surrounding railways, and their attitude seems to be that if you get hurt, it is your own fault for being careless. On some secondary lines, they don't even have footbridges or subways to cross between platforms - you just cross the tracks.

 

[Darandio]

Maybe the blame/compensation culture hasn't caught on as much over there yet?

 

[najaB]

Maybe the blame/compensation culture hasn't caught on as much over there yet?

That can't be it - the railway has been enclosed in the UK pretty much since it started being built.

 

[Stampy]

Saw one idiot the other week at Peterborough when a Steam train came through.

Proceeded to barge his way past some other "spotters" who were legally stood at the North end of platform 1 - and march off the end of the platform and set up his equipment..

By the time the train had pulled in - he'd barged his way back past them..... Straight into the arms of a BTP officer who frogmarched him off the station!!!

 

[D6975]

Out of interest, what is considered the tresspass boundry when there is no fence to speak of? For example this location I was at today pic here

I know that location well. You may not have noticed, but in order to get to where you were, you went past a gate (normally open and pushed right back into the hedge). Once you pass that gate you are on a private road which was an access road to the old coal loading point at Gascoigne Wood.

edit - the location is on the chord from Milford Jn to Gascoigne Wood Jn, towards the eastern end

 

[rogger13]

I presume because you wouldn't be so naive.

There's more chance of getting a response in 'daylight' because they're usually less busy during the day than the evening, aren't yet processing someone detained or arrested during the day, and are better resourced than at night.

If a trespass job is resourced instead of a D&D job, maybe it's because TOCs would prefer a train to be running around with a drunk on it than have that train and all the rest of their trains be stopped by some trespasser ending up underneath one of them?

Or yeah, maybe BTP's Force Control Rooms just like to give their rank and file an easy time. Just like TOC timetable planning departments like to make nice easy diagrams for train crew... :roll:

Well said..........

 

[Flamingo]

Well said..........

Well, that post and your's does tie in with what I've always found - it doesn't matter what is happening on board the train, so long as the wheels are turning nobody outside that passenger compartment of that train thinks it's a problem. Once the train get's delayed by the guard, however, to deal with ithe problems or wait for BTP to turn up, everybody (including the driver) wants to know why did you dare cause delay minutes and why are they getting home late.

Then again, maybe my view is skewed as I'm not the one having to look at the spotters on a nice sunny afternoon as I whizz past them, but am the one having to get up close and personal with the drunks on a Saturday night while locked inside a moving vehicle with them, knowing that the next three stations are unmanned, the two BTP officers on duty for all of South Wales are a 45 minute drive from the next station (if they are available at all), and that when I eventually get back to my depot, I'm looking at several hours of form-filling, interviews and please explains.

This still doesn't justify Spotters trespassing, but might explain why I'm not as dismissive of troublemaking drunks as somebody who is locked in a driving cab away from them all and carrying no responsibility for them, or tolerating them on their platform for five or ten minutes knowing they will all be getting on a train soon and becoming somebody else's problem.

 

[bramling]

Well, that post and your's does tie in with what I've always found - it doesn't matter what is happening on board the train, so long as the wheels are turning nobody outside that passenger compartment of that train thinks it's a problem. Once the train get's delayed by the guard, however, to deal with ithe problems or wait for BTP to turn up, everybody (including the driver) wants to know why did you dare cause delay minutes and why are they getting home late.

Then again, maybe my view is skewed as I'm not the one having to look at the spotters on a nice sunny afternoon as I whizz past them, but am the one having to get up close and personal with the drunks on a Saturday night while locked inside a moving vehicle with them, knowing that the next three stations are unmanned, the two BTP officers on duty for all of South Wales are a 45 minute drive from the next station (if they are available at all), and that when I eventually get back to my depot, I'm looking at several hours of form-filling, interviews and please explains.

This still doesn't justify Spotters trespassing, but might explain why I'm not as dismissive of troublemaking drunks as somebody who is locked in a driving cab away from them all and carrying no responsibility for them, or tolerating them on their platform for five or ten minutes knowing they will all be getting on a train soon and becoming somebody else's problem.

I have to say I agree fully with Flamingo on this. My view would tend to be thay someone over a wire fence with a camera in the middle of nowhere isn't really a priority, the reality is you're never going to get BTP there in time anyway. A different matter if they're close to or on the track however.

 

[Llanigraham]

I have to say I agree fully with Flamingo on this. My view would tend to be thay someone over a wire fence with a camera in the middle of nowhere isn't really a priority, the reality is you're never going to get BTP there in time anyway. A different matter if they're close to or on the track however.

The problem with that is that once they are "allowed" to get away with it once they may start taking advantage more and more, and possibly taking more risks just to get that one better shot.

There is a simple rule, Do NOT Trespass ANYWHERE!!

 

[lincolnshire]

Sorry, but that photo proves nothing.
Is that a public road or a private track?
A map reference would help to check.

To get to that position with a car you may have passed the site of a boundary gate, but gate has not been shut for years if its still there, but there is also a foot crossing nearby if I remember rightly.

The high steel fence and steel gates brigade haven,t got here as yet then by the looks of things? In years to come when all the fences start to rot its going to cost a fortune in replacement costs but that not my problem.

 

[Llanigraham]

In other words, that photo was taken on railway property, possibly by a trespasser, and is totally misleading.

 

[ash39]

Found another photo (not mine, all rights to the photographer etc) from 2011 at the same location.

There is a gate in evidence (which is no longer in situ), however, I was stood well behind where the gate is shown on the photo to take the one posted earlier in the thread, so pretty sure it wasn't taken on railway property, and it is in no way misleading.

 

[racyrich]

I've decided to turn myself in to the BTP. I plead guilty to trespassing on a weekly basis, brazenly walking around Stratford shed every Saturday morning, plus occasional trespasses at Ripple Lane, Willesden, Old Oak Common, Toton, Tinsley, Coalville, Westhouses and a few more I can't recall, during school holidays.

Time for another 40 year old cold case investigation.

 

[lincolnshire]

Found another photo (not mine, all rights to the photographer etc) from 2011 at the same location.

There is a gate in evidence (which is no longer in situ), however, I was stood well behind where the gate is shown on the photo to take the one posted earlier in the thread, so pretty sure it wasn't taken on railway property, and it is in no way misleading.

Did once see these gates closed, but I think there was a gate or gate post left from when the gate was there at the top of the access road as you turn off the road ( usually a left turn after coming over the railway over bridge).

 

[CockneySparrow]

One thing I've been noticing more and more on my routes with spotters is wearing high viz orange vests on station platforms...can't work out why they feel any need whatsoever to do that, the only time you need one on is if you are going onto the line...

A high vis vest usually means access all areas based on the assumption that they are working for someone

 

[bramling]

The problem with that is that once they are "allowed" to get away with it once they may start taking advantage more and more, and possibly taking more risks just to get that one better shot.

There is a simple rule, Do NOT Trespass ANYWHERE!!

I didn't say it's right, just that I don't think it's the biggest problem affecting the railway, and not something worth throwing BTP resource at the expense of other problems.

Antisocial behaviour on trains is also something which could grow if people get away with it. So someone behaving 'loud' turns into ticketless travel, which then turns in to a guard getting smacked, and could ultimately end up with a driver also getting smacked if the troublemaker starts interfering with the operation of the train (eg operating passcom or holding doors open).

These are the sorts of issues frontline staff face on a nightly basis in some areas, and in my view if far more worthy of police resource allocation than someone a few feet down an embankment. We know it happens with some photographers - a visit to the Settle and Carlisle line for a start would find clear evidence of trespassing in some remote location. Indeed, there are plenty of footpath crossings where it is also legitimately (to a point) possible to access the track. It's simply not practicable to attempt to police every mile of fencing.

 

[Aictos]

One thing I've been noticing more and more on my routes with spotters is wearing high viz orange vests on station platforms...can't work out why they feel any need whatsoever to do that, the only time you need one on is if you are going onto the line...

Or if you're carrying out safety critical work on platforms/happen to be a contractor working on the station.

Far as I'm concerned, the stuff only needs to be worn when on the track but every TOC has a different approach to the rule book as A Driver must be only too aware of.

 

[A-driver]

Or if you're carrying out safety critical work on platforms/happen to be a contractor working on the station.



Far as I'm concerned, the stuff only needs to be worn when on the track but every TOC has a different approach to the rule book as A Driver must be only too aware of.

Yes, but spotters are doing neither! That's why j wondered why some wear them.

I went through Gordon hill on a Sunday diversion a few months back and there were 2 spotters right on the end of the down platform in high Vis with cameras pointing at me. I thought it was managers speed gunning until I got closer. Couldn't work out what reason they had to wear the vests. They are just members of the public standing on the platform, not working.

I have seen staff at manned stations ask them to take vests off as where they use manual dispatch the train crew will be looking out for people in Orange vests to get the tip.

 

[Flamingo]

There is absolutely no reason for spotters to wear hi-via. It confuses me enough when Royal Mail employees are on the platform!

 

[DarloRich]

There is absolutely no reason for spotters to wear hi-via.

Yes, but spotters are doing neither! That's why j wondered why some wear them.

Because they are sad little wannabes who think that the hi viz will incite the driver to offer "tonez" or whatever wibble goes through their fragile little minds. As you can tell it somewhat boils my urine!

Hi viz is to help people on or about the track stay safe and visible.

 

[Antman]

Because they are sad little wannabes who think that the hi viz will incite the driver to offer "tonez" or whatever wibble goes through their fragile little minds. As you can tell it somewhat boils my urine!

Hi viz is to help people on or about the track stay safe and visible.

I don't there is any need to be so rude about them, surely it is good that these kids (which I assume most of them are?) have a worthwhile hobby rather than taking drugs etc etc?

 

[GB]

Found another photo (not mine, all rights to the photographer etc) from 2011 at the same location.

There is a gate in evidence (which is no longer in situ), however, I was stood well behind where the gate is shown on the photo to take the one posted earlier in the thread, so pretty sure it wasn't taken on railway property, and it is in no way misleading.

Which goes to prove that you can't always be 100% certain that someone has trespassed just based on the photo they have taken alone. A simple zoom lens can get you passed boundaries and make it look like your somewhere your not supposed to be. Not to mention you wouldn't know if the photographer was rail staff and had legitimate reasons for being there.

 

[DarloRich]

I don't there is any need to be so rude about them, surely it is good that these kids (which I assume most of them are?) have a worthwhile hobby rather than taking drugs etc etc?

that WAS me being polite. They aren’t kids, they are mostly adolescents

 

[Antman]

that WAS me being polite. They aren’t kids, they are mostly adolescents

Well I can't imagine that they are doing any great harm unlike vandals and such like?

 

[Darandio]

Well I can't imagine that they are doing any great harm unlike vandals and such like?

Try going to somewhere like Northallerton and watch them get over-excited, jumping around whilst waving their hands in the air and bouncing off each other.

One day someone will fall over the edge, and then what?

 

[Flamingo]

that WAS me being polite. They aren’t kids, they are mostly adolescents

The photographs trespassing are, from my experience at stations, much older...

 

[DarloRich]

The photographs trespassing are, from my experience at stations, much older...

agreed - i was talking about the high viz wearers, most of whom i have seen have been about 15/16